Buying a 987 Gen1

[freddiegeorge]

Hi All,

I'm really keen on buying a Gen 1 987 Cayman (Gen 2 unfortunately beyond budget). I've been reading a lot of forums and can see what a great car these are; however, I'm also encountering a few horror stories regarding bore-scoring and IMS bearing failure. Am still keen to take the plunge, but was hoping someone could please help with a couple of quick questions....

- Am I right in thinking that the risk of bore scoring is lower in a standard 2.7L than the S's 3.4L?

- Does the IMS bearing failure affect all Gen 1s or was it addressed from 2007/8 onward? If all Gen 1s then presumably there is no particular difference between a 2006 and 2008 model?

Really appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

Freddie

[MB140]

I had a 987.1S, fantastic car. Great driving experience. Unfortunately in my case it was burning a litre of oil to a tank of fuel of moderate driving.

Diagnosed as bore scoring. £10k estimate to fix if doing it right. Unfortunately the car was only worth £15k ish and I traded mine in.

2.7 is a lot less prone to bore scoring than the 3.4. As for IMS failure whilst I’m sure there have been some I believe it’s so low a chance it’s almost not worth worrying about. It was previous 996 and 986 that had a reputation for IMS bearings.

If I was looking to get in to a cayman again I would look at a 987.2 2.7 (non S). Arguably it’s the sweater engine as you can really ring it out in the first couple of gears without being in to 100mph+. It has less chance of borking itself.

The 3.4(s) was over the National speed limit in 2nd if I remember right. The 3.4 has udles of punch though.

Servicing if you stay away from an OPC is reasonable, maintenance depends on if it’s a Porsche only part. If it is it’s painful.

At that age most 987.1 will have been cheap in price for a while and so the later owners may well have scrimped. If they have expect at least radiators and associated cooling pipe work to need attention soon along with a suspension refresh. Budget a good £2k.

If you can’t run to a 987.2 then buy a well maintained 987.1, anything that looks like it’s not been maintained I would be weary of and expecting an appropriate reduction in asking price.

Edited by MB140 on Saturday 28th November 16:12

[julian987R]

freddiegeorge said:

Hi All,

I'm really keen on buying a Gen 1 987 Cayman (Gen 2 unfortunately beyond budget). I've been reading a lot of forums and can see what a great car these are; however, I'm also encountering a few horror stories regarding bore-scoring and IMS bearing failure. Am still keen to take the plunge, but was hoping someone could please help with a couple of quick questions....

- Am I right in thinking that the risk of bore scoring is lower in a standard 2.7L than the S's 3.4L?

- Does the IMS bearing failure affect all Gen 1s or was it addressed from 2007/8 onward? If all Gen 1s then presumably there is no particular difference between a 2006 and 2008 model?

Really appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

Freddie

Consider this.
2009 MONUMENTAL FACTORY SPECIFICATION
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011276...

...with Porsche Factory Cayman Aerokit
If the IMS was an issue it would have shown itself to be so by now with that car.

[Drekly]

julian987R said:

Consider this.
2009 MONUMENTAL FACTORY SPECIFICATION
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011276...

...with Porsche Factory Cayman Aerokit
If the IMS was an issue it would have shown itself to be so by now with that car.

I'm looking for one as well and thought that one above, while a nice car, was pretty overpriced for what it is. Look at the red 2.7 that sold on Collecting Cars for 15 or 16k with about 20,000+ miles less.
I think £18k should get you into a Gen 2 2.9 with similar or less miles.
I'm not averse to buying a 2.7 but it needs to be priced realistically.

[jimmy p]

Drekly said:

I'm looking for one as well and thought that one above, while a nice car, was pretty overpriced for what it is. Look at the red 2.7 that sold on Collecting Cars for 15 or 16k with about 20,000+ miles less.
I think £18k should get you into a Gen 2 2.9 with similar or less miles.
I'm not averse to buying a 2.7 but it needs to be priced realistically.

Spot on, the collecting cars car was much better imo, and much cheaper

[DRH986]

julian987R said:

freddiegeorge said:

Hi All,

I'm really keen on buying a Gen 1 987 Cayman (Gen 2 unfortunately beyond budget). I've been reading a lot of forums and can see what a great car these are; however, I'm also encountering a few horror stories regarding bore-scoring and IMS bearing failure. Am still keen to take the plunge, but was hoping someone could please help with a couple of quick questions....

- Am I right in thinking that the risk of bore scoring is lower in a standard 2.7L than the S's 3.4L?

- Does the IMS bearing failure affect all Gen 1s or was it addressed from 2007/8 onward? If all Gen 1s then presumably there is no particular difference between a 2006 and 2008 model?

Really appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

Freddie

Consider this.
2009 MONUMENTAL FACTORY SPECIFICATION
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011276...

...with Porsche Factory Cayman Aerokit
If the IMS was an issue it would have shown itself to be so by now with that car.

Sorry but that's nowhere close to "monumental" spec! Loads of common options missing to meet that criterion including PCM, full leather, Xenons, Bose, TPMS, Heated Seats, Cruise Control. I think the wheels are aftermarket too. Way too expensive in my opinion.

Regarding IMS failure, I came across a failing one on an 80K mile 987.1S car this summer so while very rare, not impossible.

Also remember the 6 speed 2.7 Gen 1 cars are higher road tax band, around £560 nowadays.

[bloody tourist]

The Gen 2 2.9 also has the added benefit of being the only non DFI 9A1 engine.

[Edmundo2]

Gen2 was two expensive for me also , especially when I factored in the upgrades I would have wanted to make in order to make it a little livelier,( suspension/exhaust etc ). Therefore a Gen1 S with a reputable engine rebuild and mods was the way forwards. You may be searching a while but we'll worth it IMO..

[julian987R]

Drekly said:

julian987R said:

Consider this.
2009 MONUMENTAL FACTORY SPECIFICATION
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011276...

...with Porsche Factory Cayman Aerokit
If the IMS was an issue it would have shown itself to be so by now with that car.

I'm looking for one as well and thought that one above, while a nice car, was pretty overpriced for what it is. Look at the red 2.7 that sold on Collecting Cars for 15 or 16k with about 20,000+ miles less.
I think £18k should get you into a Gen 2 2.9 with similar or less miles.
I'm not averse to buying a 2.7 but it needs to be priced realistically.

Apples and oranges though. CC may have well been lower miles, but was lower spec. Can't have it all. Seems fairly priced for a very unique and highly specced example. You are falling into the trap of low miles is the be and end all of things.

[julian987R]

jimmy p said:

Drekly said:

I'm looking for one as well and thought that one above, while a nice car, was pretty overpriced for what it is. Look at the red 2.7 that sold on Collecting Cars for 15 or 16k with about 20,000+ miles less.
I think £18k should get you into a Gen 2 2.9 with similar or less miles.
I'm not averse to buying a 2.7 but it needs to be priced realistically.

Spot on, the collecting cars car was much better imo, and much cheaper

no it wasn't! compare the spec. There is more to cars than just looking at the odometer

[Boxstercol]

DRH986 said:

Regarding IMS failure, I came across a failing one on an 80K mile 987.1S car this summer so while very rare, not impossible.

Curious as to how you diagnosed a failing IMS?

[julian987R]

Boxstercol said:

DRH986 said:

Regarding IMS failure, I came across a failing one on an 80K mile 987.1S car this summer so while very rare, not impossible.

Curious as to how you diagnosed a failing IMS?

https://www.google.com/search?q=ims+failure+check&oq=ims+failure+check

[gizlaroc]

There have been a couple of 987.2 2.9 cars for sale recently for £12500 and £13500, both with around 80k miles on them, both red.

The one just outside Glasgow and the other red one with the crap photos.




That 2.7 is well over priced.

It may be 'the best one they have driven in 10 years of trading' but what makes it the best one to drive?

New suspension and geo set up would make any car feel like new, and the best to drive, and cost you around £2000-2500 to have done to any car.
I would rather buy a 2.9 for the same money or buy another 2.7 for £10-12k and get someone to replace the whole suspension.

[jimmy p]

julian987R said:

jimmy p said:

Drekly said:

I'm looking for one as well and thought that one above, while a nice car, was pretty overpriced for what it is. Look at the red 2.7 that sold on Collecting Cars for 15 or 16k with about 20,000+ miles less.
I think £18k should get you into a Gen 2 2.9 with similar or less miles.
I'm not averse to buying a 2.7 but it needs to be priced realistically.

Spot on, the collecting cars car was much better imo, and much cheaper

no it wasn't! compare the spec. There is more to cars than just looking at the odometer

I would like to see the original actual spec sheet on the car you posted.
The wheels aren't original, is the body kit? (Probably not). What else has it, pasm which is 11 years old and chrono (which is just throttle response on a manual)

The collecting cars cayman was one owner, low miles and even had PSE. Looked totally original and 100% the better buy.
The one you have posted is definitely gen 2 money. There are some lovely 2.9 gen 2 cars currently available on autotrader for under 20k which would make far more sense at this price point.

Edited by jimmy p on Sunday 29th November 09:37

Edited by jimmy p on Sunday 29th November 09:42

[deebs]

DRH986 said:

Sorry but that's nowhere close to "monumental" spec! Loads of common options missing to meet that criterion including PCM, full leather, Xenons, Bose, TPMS, Heated Seats, Cruise Control. I think the wheels are aftermarket too. Way too expensive in my opinion.

Regarding IMS failure, I came across a failing one on an 80K mile 987.1S car this summer so while very rare, not impossible.

Also remember the 6 speed 2.7 Gen 1 cars are higher road tax band, around £560 nowadays.

On a 987 Cayman or boxster? It's frequently said on these very forums that all Caymans got the last bearing design and as such it's not an issue. Boxsters risk differ by MY.

[DRH986]

deebs said:

DRH986 said:

Sorry but that's nowhere close to "monumental" spec! Loads of common options missing to meet that criterion including PCM, full leather, Xenons, Bose, TPMS, Heated Seats, Cruise Control. I think the wheels are aftermarket too. Way too expensive in my opinion.

Regarding IMS failure, I came across a failing one on an 80K mile 987.1S car this summer so while very rare, not impossible.

Also remember the 6 speed 2.7 Gen 1 cars are higher road tax band, around £560 nowadays.

On a 987 Cayman or boxster? It's frequently said on these very forums that all Caymans got the last bearing design and as such it's not an issue. Boxsters risk differ by MY.

This was on a 2006 Cayman S. The owner had taken it to a well regarded indy due to a very slight change in the engine smoothness. They used a stethoscope and said it sounded like a failing IMS bearing. I subsequently helped him pull the oil filter which was contaminated with small ferrous particles in every fold of the filter. We've previously owned 5 M96/M97 engined cars in my family so I'm pretty familiar with how they "feel" and I've followed the IMS, bore scoring and other sagas for many years, but I have to say I probably would not have noticed anything was amiss when I sat in the car with it idling (I didn't drive it) if I wasn't specifically looking for it.

He took it to another apparently reputable indy who assured him as an early car, the IMS bearing could be replaced in situ (I advised I didn't think this was true of any Caymans) and they pulled the gearbox and flywheel and confirmed the bearing was failing, I assume by removing the bearing cover. They also confirmed it was the large bearing that can only be replaced by splitting the cases.

Unlike bore scoring, where I've personally met a number of owners who've experienced it, this is the first "big bearing" IMS failure I've personally come across in the last 10 or 15 years, so I wouldn't be unduly worried about it.

[julian987R]

gizlaroc said:

There have been a couple of 987.2 2.9 cars for sale recently for £12500 and £13500, both with around 80k miles on them, both red.

The one just outside Glasgow and the other red one with the crap photos.




That 2.7 is well over priced.

It may be 'the best one they have driven in 10 years of trading' but what makes it the best one to drive?

New suspension and geo set up would make any car feel like new, and the best to drive, and cost you around £2000-2500 to have done to any car.
I would rather buy a 2.9 for the same money or buy another 2.7 for £10-12k and get someone to replace the whole suspension.

But to achieve a 2.7 for £10-£12K you would be north of 100K miles, and then the argument would flip to that topic, yawn.

Yes, you could find a 2.7 for £12K, refresh the suspension for £2.5K, total £15k and that does indeed justify the Red one at £18K being a good price. You save £3K, but the spec I doubt would be as well equipped

You cant have your cake and eat it. You are comparing apples with oranges.

[gizlaroc]

julian987R said:

But to achieve a 2.7 for £10-£12K you would be north of 100K miles, and then the argument would flip to that topic, yawn.

Yes, you could find a 2.7 for £12K, refresh the suspension for £2.5K, total £15k and that does indeed justify the Red one at £18K being a good price. You save £3K, but the spec I doubt would be as well equipped

You cant have your cake and eat it. You are comparing apples with oranges.

There are loads of cars with the same mileage out there for £11-12k asking.

£18,000 for a gen 1 2.7 is too expensive, and the options that you keep saying are amazing I just don't see myself.
Now, if those wheels and the aero kit appeal to you that is great. If you think the seats add a few grand, then great. Get it bought.


Personally I would rather have xenons than that lot, not keen on the look of that car at all.

And it seems from this thread I am not in a minority in my thinking.



I would much rather this...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011085...


I bet many buyers would.

[freddiegeorge]

MB140 said:

I had a 987.1S, fantastic car. Great driving experience. Unfortunately in my case it was burning a litre of oil to a tank of fuel of moderate driving.

Diagnosed as bore scoring. £10k estimate to fix if doing it right. Unfortunately the car was only worth £15k ish and I traded mine in.

2.7 is a lot less prone to bore scoring than the 3.4. As for IMS failure whilst I’m sure there have been some I believe it’s so low a chance it’s almost not worth worrying about. It was previous 996 and 986 that had a reputation for IMS bearings.

If I was looking to get in to a cayman again I would look at a 987.2 2.7 (non S). Arguably it’s the sweater engine as you can really ring it out in the first couple of gears without being in to 100mph+. It has less chance of borking itself.

The 3.4(s) was over the National speed limit in 2nd if I remember right. The 3.4 has udles of punch though.

Servicing if you stay away from an OPC is reasonable, maintenance depends on if it’s a Porsche only part. If it is it’s painful.

At that age most 987.1 will have been cheap in price for a while and so the later owners may well have scrimped. If they have expect at least radiators and associated cooling pipe work to need attention soon along with a suspension refresh. Budget a good £2k.

If you can’t run to a 987.2 then buy a well maintained 987.1, anything that looks like it’s not been maintained I would be weary of and expecting an appropriate reduction in asking price.

Edited by MB140 on Saturday 28th November 16:12

Thanks very much for this. Would be more of a daily driver than track car so I think 2.7 may be the best bet (though there seems little purchase pricing differential between 2.7s and 3.4s).

Good point re. previous owners getting it cheap and scrimping. I guess best way forward is just checking servicing/condition etc.

[freddiegeorge]

Edmundo2 said:

Gen2 was two expensive for me also , especially when I factored in the upgrades I would have wanted to make in order to make it a little livelier,( suspension/exhaust etc ). Therefore a Gen1 S with a reputable engine rebuild and mods was the way forwards. You may be searching a while but we'll worth it IMO..

Did you find one with an engine rebuild in the end?