Recommendation for lowering kit
Discussion
I've just done a lot of research on this. If you are looking for road with some track, i'd go Bilstein B16 PSS10. The spring rate is not too high so they will be compliant on the road and the valve control is excellent. On track, increasing the bump and rebound is easy and again, valving will adapt and you will get an excellent result. It's only at the absolute extreme end of the performance window where softer spring rate MAY be a disadvantage. This is a lovely spring damper combination for a road biased car that is also intended to do some track work. I almost went for this set up on my C2 but ultimately wanted a more track biased set up so I went for the KW Clubsport package which has a higher spring rate which is more suited to a track biased requirement. If you are spending that kind of money on a set up then i'd advise that you consider fitting adjustable top mounts. You can spec the Clubsports to come with adjustable top mounts but you will need to find some after market mounts to go with the Bilsteins. Also, upgrading your anti roll bars is a pretty much essential upgrade. H&R offer a decent bar set which is pretty good value. I fitted original RS bars because they offer a little more adjustment but you can't go wrong with either. If I were you, I'd also fit RS engine mounts while you were at it. The standard mounts can unsettle the car after you've got it turned in. Finally, you might want to look at your brakes. Theres a lot on here about brake upgrades. Another good source is Rennlist and 911UK.
These suggestions are for the driver who wishes to optimise his or her car on the track. One is road biased with very good track performance and the other is track biased with reasonable road performance.
There are better systems out there - MOTON, JRZ etc.. but they are not cheap and may not work out of the box without the help of an experience high end tuner/race team. The solutions above are mid range but decent off the shelf options. I come from the more extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to driver requirements so if you are looking for something something softer/cheaper, is worth researching forums for more opinions, but if I were you, I'd go for the B16 PSS10 with a set of adjustable top mounts for more geometry options. You can't go wrong with that. I may yet regret not going that way myself.
good luck
These suggestions are for the driver who wishes to optimise his or her car on the track. One is road biased with very good track performance and the other is track biased with reasonable road performance.
There are better systems out there - MOTON, JRZ etc.. but they are not cheap and may not work out of the box without the help of an experience high end tuner/race team. The solutions above are mid range but decent off the shelf options. I come from the more extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to driver requirements so if you are looking for something something softer/cheaper, is worth researching forums for more opinions, but if I were you, I'd go for the B16 PSS10 with a set of adjustable top mounts for more geometry options. You can't go wrong with that. I may yet regret not going that way myself.
good luck
avaF1 said:
Anybody care to advise the same for a 993 C2 Coupe? No track work, no coilovers, no PSS10.
FSD, Bilstein, etc.
H&R, M030, M033, Eibach, etc.
Headache inducing.
I agree and most of the after market set ups knock your fillings out when using on road. I'm not sure how anyone can use a set up close to RS spec for exclusive road use. I do not mind a sporty set up as long as its compliant. Crashing over typical UK roads not my idea of enjoyment.FSD, Bilstein, etc.
H&R, M030, M033, Eibach, etc.
Headache inducing.
Steve Rance said:
I've just done a lot of research on this. If you are looking for road with some track, i'd go Bilstein B16 PSS10. The spring rate is not too high so they will be compliant on the road and the valve control is excellent. On track, increasing the bump and rebound is easy and again, valving will adapt and you will get an excellent result. It's only at the absolute extreme end of the performance window where softer spring rate MAY be a disadvantage. This is a lovely spring damper combination for a road biased car that is also intended to do some track work. I almost went for this set up on my C2 but ultimately wanted a more track biased set up so I went for the KW Clubsport package which has a higher spring rate which is more suited to a track biased requirement. If you are spending that kind of money on a set up then i'd advise that you consider fitting adjustable top mounts. You can spec the Clubsports to come with adjustable top mounts but you will need to find some after market mounts to go with the Bilsteins. Also, upgrading your anti roll bars is a pretty much essential upgrade. H&R offer a decent bar set which is pretty good value. I fitted original RS bars because they offer a little more adjustment but you can't go wrong with either. If I were you, I'd also fit RS engine mounts while you were at it. The standard mounts can unsettle the car after you've got it turned in. Finally, you might want to look at your brakes. Theres a lot on here about brake upgrades. Another good source is Rennlist and 911UK.
These suggestions are for the driver who wishes to optimise his or her car on the track. One is road biased with very good track performance and the other is track biased with reasonable road performance.
There are better systems out there - MOTON, JRZ etc.. but they are not cheap and may not work out of the box without the help of an experience high end tuner/race team. The solutions above are mid range but decent off the shelf options. I come from the more extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to driver requirements so if you are looking for something something softer/cheaper, is worth researching forums for more opinions, but if I were you, I'd go for the B16 PSS10 with a set of adjustable top mounts for more geometry options. You can't go wrong with that. I may yet regret not going that way myself.
good luck
Have to agree Steve, we find pss10 a good value upgrade that works on both road and track. We have also where customers then want more focused track, changed just the springs on the pss10 to Eibach ones as well. These suggestions are for the driver who wishes to optimise his or her car on the track. One is road biased with very good track performance and the other is track biased with reasonable road performance.
There are better systems out there - MOTON, JRZ etc.. but they are not cheap and may not work out of the box without the help of an experience high end tuner/race team. The solutions above are mid range but decent off the shelf options. I come from the more extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to driver requirements so if you are looking for something something softer/cheaper, is worth researching forums for more opinions, but if I were you, I'd go for the B16 PSS10 with a set of adjustable top mounts for more geometry options. You can't go wrong with that. I may yet regret not going that way myself.
good luck
The rennline stuff is also very good - we use this a lot, especially the front camper plates - this gives max flexibility for camber adjustment.
If someone wants just the occasional track day, then the Bilstein B6 sport dampers are actually very good, together with H&R lowering springs. Half the price but then you still have the installation cost.
Installation times vary - on a car that is 25 years old, they tend to put up a struggle
Ken
avaF1 said:
maybe Ken/Nineexcellence can kindly also advise for a 993 coupe too?
Well you could go with the Porsche upgrade kit which lowers 10mm - advantage here is that it is the Porsche upgrade kit (resale point of view), but not cheap.If it was just for road usage, then alternative would be b6 sports (same as for 964) with H&R lowering springs. Also like the H&R ARBs as well. This works very well and I have this on one of my own road cars (and many customer cars) which is occasionally tracked and frankly from a noise perspective you would not know. But the driving is transformed.
964/993 are extremely sensitive to set up. You can make any damper look bad from this point of view.
One thing to remember, these are old cars. You should be prepared to keep some money for other components that will most likely need replacing during the process e.g. top mounts, arms etc. Very rare on these cars that you just fit new dampers etc and that is it.
There are alternatives, but this is what we do and it works well.
Nineexcellence said:
964/993 are extremely sensitive to set up. You can make any damper look bad from this point of view.
One thing to remember, these are old cars. You should be prepared to keep some money for other components that will most likely need replacing during the process e.g. top mounts, arms etc. Very rare on these cars that you just fit new dampers etc and that is it.
There are alternatives, but this is what we do and it works well.
This ^^^^^. New FSDs and M033 last year, plus new top mounts x 4, also required replacing were drop links x 4 and ARB bushes x 4.One thing to remember, these are old cars. You should be prepared to keep some money for other components that will most likely need replacing during the process e.g. top mounts, arms etc. Very rare on these cars that you just fit new dampers etc and that is it.
There are alternatives, but this is what we do and it works well.
Outcome? Pants. It basically made it noticeable the rest of the suspension was worn out.
So this year, all new control arms at the rear, rear and front wishbones, balljoints and track rods, plus an expensive full Geo on top.
Not a 964, but a 993. Total bill will be in excess of £6K ..............
Prepare thy self.
avaF1 said:
Anybody care to advise the same for a 993 C2 Coupe? No track work, no coilovers, no PSS10.
FSD, Bilstein, etc.
H&R, M030, M033, Eibach, etc.
Headache inducing.
FSDs and M033 all the way for fast A&B roads IMO ...... Didnt like it to start with, but then I got the Geo done by someone who knew what they were doing and all was a lot better.FSD, Bilstein, etc.
H&R, M030, M033, Eibach, etc.
Headache inducing.
I really think FSDs need a few K miles under their belt before they start to perform as they should.
Read my post above. I doubt it will be the end of your 993 suspension improvement though.
PorscheGT4 said:
the 964 gang seem to fit KW3's
Indeed we do! You could look at Steve Rance's post above and substitute Bilstein PSS10 for KWV3 because the V3 is the road biased version of the clubsport. My own set of KWV3s have now been on for 6 years and have proved to very durable. The OP should also have the bushes in the wishbones changed while having the suspension done...it would be silly not to.Nineexcellence said:
Well you could go with the Porsche upgrade kit which lowers 10mm - advantage here is that it is the Porsche upgrade kit (resale point of view), but not cheap.
If it was just for road usage, then alternative would be b6 sports (same as for 964) with H&R lowering springs. Also like the H&R ARBs as well. This works very well and I have this on one of my own road cars (and many customer cars) which is occasionally tracked and frankly from a noise perspective you would not know. But the driving is transformed.
964/993 are extremely sensitive to set up. You can make any damper look bad from this point of view.
One thing to remember, these are old cars. You should be prepared to keep some money for other components that will most likely need replacing during the process e.g. top mounts, arms etc. Very rare on these cars that you just fit new dampers etc and that is it.
There are alternatives, but this is what we do and it works well.
that's really helpful, thank you. If it was just for road usage, then alternative would be b6 sports (same as for 964) with H&R lowering springs. Also like the H&R ARBs as well. This works very well and I have this on one of my own road cars (and many customer cars) which is occasionally tracked and frankly from a noise perspective you would not know. But the driving is transformed.
964/993 are extremely sensitive to set up. You can make any damper look bad from this point of view.
One thing to remember, these are old cars. You should be prepared to keep some money for other components that will most likely need replacing during the process e.g. top mounts, arms etc. Very rare on these cars that you just fit new dampers etc and that is it.
There are alternatives, but this is what we do and it works well.
not entirely convinced 10mm is worth the (extra) cost. seems a little pointless.
also didn't realise H&R were well revered as you don;t hear about them much at all. wonder how much they lower to compare the 10mm of Porsche upgrade kit.
thanks for your view
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