Suspension & Turbo upgrades, 964
Discussion
I am wanting to upgrade the coilovers and bushes this winter, also looking at adding the latest turbo technology.
The choice of Coilovers I am considering is the Moton Clubsport 2 way Black series bushes all round
Looking at the Garrett GT35R turbo as a upgrade over the KKK 27 Wanting a faster spool up turbo that will give + boost at 2000 rpm and be good for 450 RWHP
Possibly looking at new manifold & Exhaust,
Question is would the upgrades De value the car ?
The choice of Coilovers I am considering is the Moton Clubsport 2 way Black series bushes all round
Looking at the Garrett GT35R turbo as a upgrade over the KKK 27 Wanting a faster spool up turbo that will give + boost at 2000 rpm and be good for 450 RWHP
Possibly looking at new manifold & Exhaust,
Question is would the upgrades De value the car ?
William10 said:
I am wanting to upgrade the coilovers and bushes this winter, also looking at adding the latest turbo technology.
The choice of Coilovers I am considering is the Moton Clubsport 2 way Black series bushes all round
Looking at the Garrett GT35R turbo as a upgrade over the KKK 27 Wanting a faster spool up turbo that will give + boost at 2000 rpm and be good for 450 RWHP
Possibly looking at new manifold & Exhaust,
Question is would the upgrades De value the car ?
Yes.The choice of Coilovers I am considering is the Moton Clubsport 2 way Black series bushes all round
Looking at the Garrett GT35R turbo as a upgrade over the KKK 27 Wanting a faster spool up turbo that will give + boost at 2000 rpm and be good for 450 RWHP
Possibly looking at new manifold & Exhaust,
Question is would the upgrades De value the car ?
If you want performance worth trying a 996 turbo, 997 turbo or 991 turbo.
Cashing in a 964 turbo would allow you to pick a nice later model.
I do like the generation 2 997 turbo S and would consider taking a closer look If I was to sell my car,
Power to weight on my car is very good 1120kg & 406 RWHP awsome rush of power from 3000rpm as boost builds rapidly
My aim was to improve on the spool up and power with either a GT3076 or EFR 7670 boost starting at 2000 rpm which would make feel totaly different at lower rpm My aim is 460lb of torque & 480 RWHP, I enjoy the engineering challenge of modifications,
Power to weight on my car is very good 1120kg & 406 RWHP awsome rush of power from 3000rpm as boost builds rapidly
My aim was to improve on the spool up and power with either a GT3076 or EFR 7670 boost starting at 2000 rpm which would make feel totaly different at lower rpm My aim is 460lb of torque & 480 RWHP, I enjoy the engineering challenge of modifications,
William10 said:
I am wanting to upgrade the coilovers and bushes this winter, also looking at adding the latest turbo technology.
Question is would the upgrades De value the car ?
A change of turbo almost certainly would...not sure on the coilovers as after all these yearsa the shocks will need changing in any case.Question is would the upgrades De value the car ?
I would agree that if you want more poke then just getting anewer car is cheaper... but if you love your 964 and intend on keeping it then modify away. I have done.
ETA
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Edited by Big Al. on Thursday 3rd December 07:39
At 1120 Kg and 406 RWhp it's already faster then a 996/997 turbo, with your goal of 480rwhp they wouldn't even see which way you went. It would be a massively mental car and more like GT2 then a 996/997 turbo for sure. With the weight/power it already has it is already heavily modified so to bolt a different turbo on it will do fekk all to it's value.
Pelicanparts is a great forum with loads of heavily modified 3.3 turbos, mostly 930 though.
Here is some inspiration if you're looking for a challenge:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuildi...
Pelicanparts is a great forum with loads of heavily modified 3.3 turbos, mostly 930 though.
Here is some inspiration if you're looking for a challenge:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuildi...
Edited by fredt on Tuesday 15th September 10:17
Edited by fredt on Tuesday 15th September 11:24
The Motons will probably have just as much of a performance increase as the power upgrade. Be mindful that when you are putting that much grunt through the rear wheels that you will be obliged to run a relatively soft rear end to help traction. This will have an effect on the front end that you run and consiquently there will be a trade off on chasis set up
Yes the car is very fast when on boost, and speeds build very rapidly, Although its a hybrid KKK turbo using a 7200 fast spool hot side giving it as fast a spool up that is possible, I want to use a ceramic bearing BW EFR 7670 turbo with a Treadstone T3 hot side. This will make boost at much lower rpm and increase the torque lower down, and is capable of flowing enough air to support 600HP
http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-e...
There is simply no forumns with 930/964 using this turbo BW EFR 7670 GT35r yes, I want to do the engineering and give it a go and report the results, My car drives very docile 1-3000 rpm 3000 upwards things get interesting,
The car is stripped of heavy items, no A/C Exhaust & Headers are light weight, no heater boxes no radio all help,
Adding upto date technology should increase the driving experience The Moton Clubsport coilovers will aid the handling both on the road and can be dialed in for focused track use,
I have read lots of forums on suspension upgrades K&W, Bilstons, JRZ, H&R, but like the Motons
https://www.vividracing.com/catalog/moton-club-spo...
http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-e...
There is simply no forumns with 930/964 using this turbo BW EFR 7670 GT35r yes, I want to do the engineering and give it a go and report the results, My car drives very docile 1-3000 rpm 3000 upwards things get interesting,
The car is stripped of heavy items, no A/C Exhaust & Headers are light weight, no heater boxes no radio all help,
Adding upto date technology should increase the driving experience The Moton Clubsport coilovers will aid the handling both on the road and can be dialed in for focused track use,
I have read lots of forums on suspension upgrades K&W, Bilstons, JRZ, H&R, but like the Motons
https://www.vividracing.com/catalog/moton-club-spo...
Intresting read Fredt,
Keeping with my CIS injection and aim for 450 RWHP at 1.2 Bar boost. see what 1.4 bar boost gives when on the dyno,
I am able to add additional fuel if needed at controlled amounts through the rpm range when on boost over .7 bar boost,
keeping AF at bellow 12 I have a AEM faisafe which enables you to monitor AF & Boost
Rear tyres 295 on 11" rims helps a bit with traction 2nd gear is a bit twitchy on boost
Keeping with my CIS injection and aim for 450 RWHP at 1.2 Bar boost. see what 1.4 bar boost gives when on the dyno,
I am able to add additional fuel if needed at controlled amounts through the rpm range when on boost over .7 bar boost,
keeping AF at bellow 12 I have a AEM faisafe which enables you to monitor AF & Boost
Rear tyres 295 on 11" rims helps a bit with traction 2nd gear is a bit twitchy on boost
William10 said:
The car is stripped of heavy items, no A/C Exhaust & Headers are light weight, no heater boxes no radio all help,
Have you actually weighed the car or is your 1120kg a wishful guess ? even with full carbon panels, feather weight seats, rear seat delete, sunroof delete, lightweight door cards and carpets you will still be north of 1250kg DIN weight, Leichtbau was 1295kg DIN IIRC I will take it to a weighbridge next time I am out to get the exact weight, and get a print out.
the car does have alloy doors, Plastic rear & side windows,and feather weight recaro seats also
if you deduct the weight of Turbo s Light weight glass vs Plastic, A few KG there, 8kg ? Deduct Turbo S exhaust & heating system inc wastgate 20 KG
Remove tools jack spare wheel and Boot carpet, and battery 30Kg? Turbo S rear spoiler VS Carbon GT2 Spoiler ? 10KG
So Yes My estimate will not be too far away, I once owned a 3.3 964 turbo race car stripped to the bare bones this weighed in at 1050kg, it had fibreglass doors and plastic windows except for the windscreen
the car does have alloy doors, Plastic rear & side windows,and feather weight recaro seats also
if you deduct the weight of Turbo s Light weight glass vs Plastic, A few KG there, 8kg ? Deduct Turbo S exhaust & heating system inc wastgate 20 KG
Remove tools jack spare wheel and Boot carpet, and battery 30Kg? Turbo S rear spoiler VS Carbon GT2 Spoiler ? 10KG
So Yes My estimate will not be too far away, I once owned a 3.3 964 turbo race car stripped to the bare bones this weighed in at 1050kg, it had fibreglass doors and plastic windows except for the windscreen
Good commitment on the weight saving, you still won't be below 1250kg DIN (90% full fuel tank) IMO, look forward to your weigh bridge results
With this information your first question becomes a bit easier to answer, you've already fairly heavily modified your car so suspension and some more engine mods will change little in value terms I would have thought - enjoy your project, sounds great. Pics would be nice
With this information your first question becomes a bit easier to answer, you've already fairly heavily modified your car so suspension and some more engine mods will change little in value terms I would have thought - enjoy your project, sounds great. Pics would be nice
I also think new coilovers should be paired with shocks.
Had KW clubsport on my 964 turbo when i bought it, which for any road use was crap, especially round the bumpy back lanes of Essex.
Ended up putting them away for trackday use ( of which i havnt seen due to work commitments) and put Billies on with h&r springs which are a good compromise on the road, and polly bushes on the front (which are a ball ache to fit having to press/cut out the vulcanised originals).
Only other thing I will add is over 400+ hp with cis, and you are living with a time bomb.
You may have a bit of extra juice over .7 bar, but run them hard on a day with warm air with over 1bar and there is nothing to stop det, or pistons melting. Seen it loads of times on hopped up 930's.
The only safe way is a system such as MoTec to moniter lambdas, air intake temp and knock, and back off boost if parameters are met.
The next hp limit will be the intercooler efficency, the restrictive inlet manifold and keeping the heads down.
Sure you know all this, but would hate to see you kill it!
Had KW clubsport on my 964 turbo when i bought it, which for any road use was crap, especially round the bumpy back lanes of Essex.
Ended up putting them away for trackday use ( of which i havnt seen due to work commitments) and put Billies on with h&r springs which are a good compromise on the road, and polly bushes on the front (which are a ball ache to fit having to press/cut out the vulcanised originals).
Only other thing I will add is over 400+ hp with cis, and you are living with a time bomb.
You may have a bit of extra juice over .7 bar, but run them hard on a day with warm air with over 1bar and there is nothing to stop det, or pistons melting. Seen it loads of times on hopped up 930's.
The only safe way is a system such as MoTec to moniter lambdas, air intake temp and knock, and back off boost if parameters are met.
The next hp limit will be the intercooler efficency, the restrictive inlet manifold and keeping the heads down.
Sure you know all this, but would hate to see you kill it!
Hi Charge, Yes I am aware of the limits with CIS & as I am going to push the boundarys further I have a failsafe system that monitors A/F ratios and Boost should this run out of my set parameter of 12 AF on boost it activates my boost controller to open the wastgate and stop boost building,
Max boost I would go to 1.4 Bar and see what RWHP it achives on the Dyno with the new turbo,
Increasing the Intercooler is a project for 2017
Max boost I would go to 1.4 Bar and see what RWHP it achives on the Dyno with the new turbo,
Increasing the Intercooler is a project for 2017
You are a man on a mission!
If you have the AFR in hand, the killer will be det, especially at 1.4 bar!
Getting your intake temp in hand and high octane fuel will help negate the risk.
But high boost with the restrictive inlet setup you have will raise the temperature dramatically.
I ran a water/ methanol injection system which worked well and only under boost to help, but it was all a bit hit and miss.
Course this is all hyperthetical. A quick squirt to Sainsburys is no big deal. Prolonged attack at say Bruntingthope would be a different matter!
If you have the AFR in hand, the killer will be det, especially at 1.4 bar!
Getting your intake temp in hand and high octane fuel will help negate the risk.
But high boost with the restrictive inlet setup you have will raise the temperature dramatically.
I ran a water/ methanol injection system which worked well and only under boost to help, but it was all a bit hit and miss.
Course this is all hyperthetical. A quick squirt to Sainsburys is no big deal. Prolonged attack at say Bruntingthope would be a different matter!
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