The answer to the age-old problem - 17 or 18 on a 993
Discussion
Some of you know that I have many wheel sets for the 993, all bought in the pursuit of perfection between ‘looks’ on one hand, and ‘handling’ and ‘feedback’ and all those other ‘steering/driving’ terms on the other.
As petrolheads, we all know that some wheel sizes suit particular cars, and it is generally accepted that the 993 runs best on 17 inch rims, but looks better on 18 inch rims.
My experience and opinion is that the 'steering' with 205/50/17 on 7J fronts is sublime - wonderful - perfect.
There is so much feedback, and this gives the driver an almost telepathic connection with what is 'going on'. You don't need to think, it all just flows.
But it looks rubbish - the wheel is too recessed, and the visual effect sitting in the front wheelarch is of a backward step - looks almost like the 1960s cars.
Whereas the 225/40/18 on either a 7.5J or 8J looks great - fills the wheelarch and narrows the sidewall to give the car a modern look - but in my opinion, the drive is affected - the front of the car feels slightly clumsy and heavy.
Of course wheel/tyre weight contributes greatly to this, and the 18 package is much heavier than an OE 17 package.
Objective.
To put a wider 17" rim on the front with a 225/45 tyre, and improve the looks without such a compromise on the handling.
The experiment.
I have two 17" Sport Classic 1 wheelsets - one is the later sizing, with 8.5J rears.
Here on the left is the front 7J with 205/50 - see how the centre of the rim is proud of the outer rim edge and tyre - IMO just the wheel in isolation looks wrong!
On the right is 8.5J with 225/45 - the centre of the rim is recessed in a lovely dish shape, and the wheel-face has the same 'profile' as the 9J version.
The tyre is slightly stretched, but within spec.
So the experiment is to put them on the front.
There is no rubbing (my car is lowered to RS-ish) full lock or whilst making progress.
The other odd thing about 17" BBS is that they look as big as 18s (the 18 inch SC2 looks too big, almost 19" in size IMO)
Driving - what is the result?
I've not put enough miles on the new tyres yet to scrub off the mold release agent, but I've attacked a few of my well-known corners, and I'm pleased to say that the steering feel and input is somewhere between the two - i.e. between the 205 on 17 and the 225 on 18.
The 225/45 17J Sport Classic 1 package is significantly lighter than the 225/40 18Js that I have (Hollowspokes or MY02s), and that is very noticable.
The stretched sidewalls means there is noticeably less 'give' up front (compared directly with 205/50 7J), the ride is slightly harsher, but I've changed from old S-02 on the front to new PS4 on the front, so not comparing like with like.
I admit that 225/45 8.5J does feel slightly clumsy compared with 205/50 7J, but looks are very improved.
I'll be keeping my 7Js for the track, but I'll be trying these 8.5Js on the road for the summer, and will keep you updated.... if anyone has read this far...
As petrolheads, we all know that some wheel sizes suit particular cars, and it is generally accepted that the 993 runs best on 17 inch rims, but looks better on 18 inch rims.
My experience and opinion is that the 'steering' with 205/50/17 on 7J fronts is sublime - wonderful - perfect.
There is so much feedback, and this gives the driver an almost telepathic connection with what is 'going on'. You don't need to think, it all just flows.
But it looks rubbish - the wheel is too recessed, and the visual effect sitting in the front wheelarch is of a backward step - looks almost like the 1960s cars.
Whereas the 225/40/18 on either a 7.5J or 8J looks great - fills the wheelarch and narrows the sidewall to give the car a modern look - but in my opinion, the drive is affected - the front of the car feels slightly clumsy and heavy.
Of course wheel/tyre weight contributes greatly to this, and the 18 package is much heavier than an OE 17 package.
Objective.
To put a wider 17" rim on the front with a 225/45 tyre, and improve the looks without such a compromise on the handling.
The experiment.
I have two 17" Sport Classic 1 wheelsets - one is the later sizing, with 8.5J rears.
Here on the left is the front 7J with 205/50 - see how the centre of the rim is proud of the outer rim edge and tyre - IMO just the wheel in isolation looks wrong!
On the right is 8.5J with 225/45 - the centre of the rim is recessed in a lovely dish shape, and the wheel-face has the same 'profile' as the 9J version.
The tyre is slightly stretched, but within spec.
So the experiment is to put them on the front.
There is no rubbing (my car is lowered to RS-ish) full lock or whilst making progress.
The other odd thing about 17" BBS is that they look as big as 18s (the 18 inch SC2 looks too big, almost 19" in size IMO)
Driving - what is the result?
I've not put enough miles on the new tyres yet to scrub off the mold release agent, but I've attacked a few of my well-known corners, and I'm pleased to say that the steering feel and input is somewhere between the two - i.e. between the 205 on 17 and the 225 on 18.
The 225/45 17J Sport Classic 1 package is significantly lighter than the 225/40 18Js that I have (Hollowspokes or MY02s), and that is very noticable.
The stretched sidewalls means there is noticeably less 'give' up front (compared directly with 205/50 7J), the ride is slightly harsher, but I've changed from old S-02 on the front to new PS4 on the front, so not comparing like with like.
I admit that 225/45 8.5J does feel slightly clumsy compared with 205/50 7J, but looks are very improved.
I'll be keeping my 7Js for the track, but I'll be trying these 8.5Js on the road for the summer, and will keep you updated.... if anyone has read this far...
Edited by Orangecurry on Saturday 14th May 12:33
Yes - it's quite a common answer to stick 5mm or 7mm or possibly more on the front to solve the 'looks' issue, but I wanted to try a wider wheel and tyre package as well.
My car's setup means it just doesn't ever understeer (except on ice) so I wasn't trying to change the balance, but spacers just didn't seem to address what I wanted to achieve.
My car's setup means it just doesn't ever understeer (except on ice) so I wasn't trying to change the balance, but spacers just didn't seem to address what I wanted to achieve.
(I didn't explain my last point very well - Nurse came in with my lunch)
I didn't want to shift the track on the front - I didn't want the track wider (by just using spacers)
I wanted to keep the track/contact-point the same (as I like it so much).
ETA
I also don't think that just adding spacers even makes the front wheel-in-wheelarch look any better.
So spacers are a lose-lose for me.
I didn't want to shift the track on the front - I didn't want the track wider (by just using spacers)
I wanted to keep the track/contact-point the same (as I like it so much).
ETA
I also don't think that just adding spacers even makes the front wheel-in-wheelarch look any better.
So spacers are a lose-lose for me.
Edited by Orangecurry on Saturday 14th May 13:15
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well.. no.. if we imagine a centre-line in the middle of the 205/7J, the 225/8.5J package is obviously wider. The offset isn't much different - the 225/8,5J has more wheel/tyre inside the original line, and more wheel/tyre outside the original line.... so the track is the 'same'. Wozy68 said:
I'm with you on the factory spec front tyre sizes. IMO they suit the standard cars well.
Spacers IMO are the way. I bought 5 & 7MM ones and I know it sounds mad but I could tell the difference by just looking at them fitted. In the end I went for 5MM as the wheel just seemed to protrude a little to far with the 7s on there, plus I was worried about wheel stud length. If I can find them your welcome to the 7s to try.
My wheels are factory 17 Cups with the wider offset to the rears of the later Cups. I must admit and this maybe just a placebo effect, but the car felt better for the slightly wider track at the front than standard. When the suspension was set up by CG, the spacers were already fitted so I assume this was allowed for (if required).
Absolutely, especially if the car was set to understeer slightly beforehand, but this will vary hugely on suspension set up - my car is full of compromises (lowered but standard front hub carriers, track rods etc etc) but I like it exactly as it is. Spacers IMO are the way. I bought 5 & 7MM ones and I know it sounds mad but I could tell the difference by just looking at them fitted. In the end I went for 5MM as the wheel just seemed to protrude a little to far with the 7s on there, plus I was worried about wheel stud length. If I can find them your welcome to the 7s to try.
My wheels are factory 17 Cups with the wider offset to the rears of the later Cups. I must admit and this maybe just a placebo effect, but the car felt better for the slightly wider track at the front than standard. When the suspension was set up by CG, the spacers were already fitted so I assume this was allowed for (if required).
Wozy68 said:
One thing to remember. You get more stone chipping and dirt along the sides of the car from the wheels being pushed out further .... Well I seem to have.
Great excuse to get some RS sill covers?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Odd but true...It might be the shape of the Cup2, or as I tried to explain the protruding shape of the 7J BBS wheel front-face being different from the 8.5J, but the effect of a 5mm spacer just doesn't fix the recessed look for me.
Optical illusion maybe, but as I said my goal was wider wheel and wider tyre but in 17.
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