993, je t'aime
Discussion
I really can't get enough of my 993.
It is just so well made.
The way it steers, it just does what you want.
I love that you can use all of the rev range all of the time.
I love the way it builds revs. In second, after 5k rpm, it just surges froward. I'm not sure if it's on cam at around 5k or the VarioRam shortens the induction around then.. or both. Love it.
It is just such a compulsive bit of brilliance.
The layers and layers of character you unlock by just spending time driving it...
It is just so well made.
The way it steers, it just does what you want.
I love that you can use all of the rev range all of the time.
I love the way it builds revs. In second, after 5k rpm, it just surges froward. I'm not sure if it's on cam at around 5k or the VarioRam shortens the induction around then.. or both. Love it.
It is just such a compulsive bit of brilliance.
The layers and layers of character you unlock by just spending time driving it...
You've caught the bug... literally 
What I love is the differing tone and resonance of the engine dependent on revs...from a bassy purr at low revs through to the induction howl as you reach peak revs...then barks and pops as you let off the throttle (RSR box) is what keeps me endlessly engaged, alongside the handling and old school control-weights.
What I love is the differing tone and resonance of the engine dependent on revs...from a bassy purr at low revs through to the induction howl as you reach peak revs...then barks and pops as you let off the throttle (RSR box) is what keeps me endlessly engaged, alongside the handling and old school control-weights.
aide said:
I really can't get enough of my 993.
It is just so well made.
The way it steers, it just does what you want.
I love that you can use all of the rev range all of the time.
I love the way it builds revs. In second, after 5k rpm, it just surges froward. I'm not sure if it's on cam at around 5k or the VarioRam shortens the induction around then.. or both. Love it.
It is just such a compulsive bit of brilliance.
The layers and layers of character you unlock by just spending time driving it...
I'd love one. What's interesting is that my old boss, a pretty experienced vehicle dynamics engineer, has one...in mint condition. He loves it too...but he says he has driven a few and they all have terribly vague steering.It is just so well made.
The way it steers, it just does what you want.
I love that you can use all of the rev range all of the time.
I love the way it builds revs. In second, after 5k rpm, it just surges froward. I'm not sure if it's on cam at around 5k or the VarioRam shortens the induction around then.. or both. Love it.
It is just such a compulsive bit of brilliance.
The layers and layers of character you unlock by just spending time driving it...
How fettled we're the examples he drove? As with other air-cooled, there's a gulf in the driving experience between those cars which have been left as are, and those where owners have stayed on top of things. Esp need to keep on top of the rubber bits and pieces which degrade, these cars are 25 years old now! E.g I believe steering rack bushings can be replaced without having to have a new steering rack
The description here is quite interesting:
https://www.rennline.com/964_993-Steering-Rack-Bus...
"The 964/993 chassis was the only generation of 911 from 1965-2012 that did not receive a solid-mounted steering rack. Instead Porsche used a rubber bushing on each end to isolate the cabin from additional NVH making the car more tame and palatable for the general public. The result was less noise but also decreased steering feel and stability under hard cornering."
https://www.rennline.com/964_993-Steering-Rack-Bus...
"The 964/993 chassis was the only generation of 911 from 1965-2012 that did not receive a solid-mounted steering rack. Instead Porsche used a rubber bushing on each end to isolate the cabin from additional NVH making the car more tame and palatable for the general public. The result was less noise but also decreased steering feel and stability under hard cornering."
There are quite a few components in the front susp that could be looked at - all the bushes in the wishbone (you can choose from about 10 different hardness/manufacturers), the track-rod ends - standard ones have a rubber section, the RS ones were solid, and as these are NLA the americans have made their own if you want to improve that... and so on...... well documented elsewhere.
If there is nothing special about his suspension, as the OP is on so-called Cup2s, which if 7J are light and 'narrow', he will be getting a much better steering experience than someone with 18" solidspoke or even hollowspoke Turbos, as wider/heavier fronts really really show up any shortcomings in the front component state of being.
But what about the Ferrari?
If there is nothing special about his suspension, as the OP is on so-called Cup2s, which if 7J are light and 'narrow', he will be getting a much better steering experience than someone with 18" solidspoke or even hollowspoke Turbos, as wider/heavier fronts really really show up any shortcomings in the front component state of being.
But what about the Ferrari?
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 6th May 13:53
n12maser said:
The description here is quite interesting:
https://www.rennline.com/964_993-Steering-Rack-Bus...
"The 964/993 chassis was the only generation of 911 from 1965-2012 that did not receive a solid-mounted steering rack. Instead Porsche used a rubber bushing on each end to isolate the cabin from additional NVH making the car more tame and palatable for the general public. The result was less noise but also decreased steering feel and stability under hard cornering."
Don't believe everything that's written. Decreased stability https://www.rennline.com/964_993-Steering-Rack-Bus...
"The 964/993 chassis was the only generation of 911 from 1965-2012 that did not receive a solid-mounted steering rack. Instead Porsche used a rubber bushing on each end to isolate the cabin from additional NVH making the car more tame and palatable for the general public. The result was less noise but also decreased steering feel and stability under hard cornering."
I replaced all of the suspension bushing in my 964 (Elephant sport) and replaced the rear spring plates with solid (tarett) but as yet I’ve not touched the steering rack. The steering feels very tight. I may look at it over time but it’s not an area that I needed to pay any attention to. The damping, chassis and set up changes made a fundamental difference to the car’s feel. As in the car feels totally different.
n12maser said:
Esp need to keep on top of the rubber bits and pieces which degrade, these cars are 25 years old now! E.g I believe steering rack bushings can be replaced without having to have a new steering rack
If you have your suspension/geo setup by the well reputed Centre Gravity, they will offer the following option to make the steering feel more direct... to quote..."New OEM rod inners will give you stock Carrera steering characteristics. Over time, these rubber isolated parts will deteriorate again. As an upgrade to 'RS-ify' the steering, we weld your existing rod ends. This removes any rubber from the steering system and makes the steering more modern and direct. "
aide said:
I really can't get enough of my 993.
They are very lovely, aren't they? I love the looks, I love the size (sat in a 992 at the OPC and it is huge), but most of all I love the way you can use all of the performance on public roads. It actually makes you feel like you're driving, not just inputting commands.I tried a 997.2 Turbo and it was fast, I mean scary fast. And I thought, OK, well I can never use this performance in the real world without killing someone, me most likely. And it didn't sound nice or smell of anything.
I find my 993 is engaging to drive. It needs effort. It doesn't have fancy driver aids. The engine noise is intrusive. It smells of hot oil.
And it makes you feel alive, engaged, a part of the machine.
For some folks that's not what they want. They want crazy acceleration, or turbo shove, or GT3 wings/spoilers/race track appeal. That's fine.
It's just a shame they are so damned expensive to keep on the road. Still, they shouldn't depreciate. Great, great cars.
Orangecurry said:
Brave Fart said:
It's just a shame they are so damned expensive to keep on the road.
Someone said this on the other thread - what are the issues that you are seeing that make yours an expensive car to run? I'll help if I can 
Examples: air con including evaporator, cheapest quote I found was £1800.
Suspension, including various control arms, dampers, top mounts and springs - being done at Center Gravity but north of £3000.
Brake caliper refurb £800, new exhaust back boxes £1200, renovate leather of seats £900, new handbrake cables + shoes £500.
Varioram overhaul £400, chassis leg inspection and rustproofing £800.
Front end repaint, been quoted £1500 to £2500. Most of these items are age related in my opinion.
Those are just off the top of my head, but Porsche parts prices are insane. People say to buy aftermarket parts but you go to the specialists (Brookspeed, Precision Porsche, Center Gravity in my case) and they advise against it. Although people then say "nah, could have got that job done oop north by a bloke I know who'll do it for a bag of chips", or they recommend some bloke in Devizes who doesn't appear to exist. Yeah, helpful.
To be fair, much of this work isn't strictly necessary to "keep the car on the road". I should have said "to keep, or get, the car mint." One person I spoke to reckoned he'd spent £30k getting his car exactly how he wanted it; a labour of love I suppose. I keep telling myself "just do these jobs and it'll be perfect" but then something else pops up. Just as well the car is so lovely to drive for pleasure - or will be when this bloody lockdown ends.
Brave Fart said:
I think it's the fact that they are 25 years old, and IF the previous owner(s) hasn't replaced stuff, then I'll have to, as the current owner.
Exactly - so none of this will need addressing for another 25 years...Brave Fart said:
Examples: air con including evaporator, cheapest quote I found was £1800.
Yes that's a tricky one, but make sure you find out exactly what is broken before you proceed. And it's the labour that costs the most.Brave Fart said:
Suspension, including various control arms, dampers, top mounts and springs - being done at Center Gravity but north of £3000.
Don't skimp on that one...Brave Fart said:
Brake caliper refurb £800, new exhaust back boxes £1200, renovate leather of seats £900, new handbrake cables + shoes £500.
Varioram overhaul £400, chassis leg inspection and rustproofing £800.
Front end repaint, been quoted £1500 to £2500. Most of these items are age related in my opinion.
... but those quotes seem rather ridiculous to me. Varioram overhaul £400, chassis leg inspection and rustproofing £800.
Front end repaint, been quoted £1500 to £2500. Most of these items are age related in my opinion.
Find a caliper specialist, not a Porsche specialist for the brakes.
Why do you need new back boxes - originals are mostly stainless. If you do need replacements, get Carnewal RSR for a third of that price.
Seat leather renovate for 900????? Sorry that is criminal.
Varioram overhaul??? Possible I suppose, but it's something I hadn't heard of - fixing a vacuum leak sure, but what is an 'overhaul'? Replacing parts 'just in case'?
Chassis legs - some companies have jumped on the bandwagon on this, playing on the fear factor of a few bad cases. I've done it and if there is no welding required, this is a simple job with about 10 nuts to undo. It is also a job for any corrosion specialist, not a Porsche one, though you might want to check they put the rear boxes back on properly
Brave Fart said:
Those are just off the top of my head, but Porsche parts prices are insane. People say to buy aftermarket parts but you go to the specialists (Brookspeed, Precision Porsche, Center Gravity in my case) and they advise against it. Although people then say "nah, could have got that job done oop north by a bloke I know who'll do it for a bag of chips", or they recommend some bloke in Devizes who doesn't appear to exist. Yeah, helpful.
To be fair, much of this work isn't strictly necessary to "keep the car on the road". I should have said "to keep, or get, the car mint." One person I spoke to reckoned he'd spent £30k getting his car exactly how he wanted it; a labour of love I suppose. I keep telling myself "just do these jobs and it'll be perfect" but then something else pops up. Just as well the car is so lovely to drive for pleasure - or will be when this bloody lockdown ends.
My experience is that some specialists suggest doing way more than is required. Enough said.To be fair, much of this work isn't strictly necessary to "keep the car on the road". I should have said "to keep, or get, the car mint." One person I spoke to reckoned he'd spent £30k getting his car exactly how he wanted it; a labour of love I suppose. I keep telling myself "just do these jobs and it'll be perfect" but then something else pops up. Just as well the car is so lovely to drive for pleasure - or will be when this bloody lockdown ends.
Also, the parts that Porsche supply today can be significantly poorer quality that the parts they had made in the 1990s.
Also Porsche do not make most of these parts, and you can get OE quality parts from the vast number of OE suppliers, including EuroCarParts/Carparts4less.
I did my own research, as they say, and if you use ECP you will be getting OE parts - examples I have bought being dist belt, cam-cover gaskets, and a real beauty of a rear reflector (Hella), all stamped with Porsche part numbers.
I also always buy Mahle oil, air and cabin filters, and Mobil Super 2000 10w40 direct from Opie or ECP.
It might be a nice car, but it is just a car, and any competent mechanic can do all of the above. EDIT - just to be clear - NOT for the suspension, I would go to Centre Gravity for that every day of the week.
If you experience a 993-specific issue, by all means go to a specialist, but I'd be doing some research as well.
Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 7th May 10:38
aide said:
I really can't get enough of my 993.
It is just so well made.
The way it steers, it just does what you want.
I love that you can use all of the rev range all of the time.
I love the way it builds revs. In second, after 5k rpm, it just surges froward. I'm not sure if it's on cam at around 5k or the VarioRam shortens the induction around then.. or both. Love it.
It is just such a compulsive bit of brilliance.
The layers and layers of character you unlock by just spending time driving it...
Ahhh.... That is young love speaking out of you!! It is just so well made.
The way it steers, it just does what you want.
I love that you can use all of the rev range all of the time.
I love the way it builds revs. In second, after 5k rpm, it just surges froward. I'm not sure if it's on cam at around 5k or the VarioRam shortens the induction around then.. or both. Love it.
It is just such a compulsive bit of brilliance.
The layers and layers of character you unlock by just spending time driving it...
I now that feeling very well! I felt exactly the same when I bought my first (and only one to this date) Porsche 997 exactly 3 years and two days ago
I celebrated by giving her, I mean it, a good service. And I might buy a new key fob also
They certainly are cars that get under your skin, aren't they.
Do enjoy !!! God speed to you !!
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