Noob advice - where to start? Potential first Ferrari.
Discussion
Little bit of background for context.
Middle aged, had sports or classic cars all my life, some old nails that needed the bottom 6" welding, others needing mechanical rebuilds, others just needing loving and maintaining. I do 90% of the work myself (i.e mostly technically competent for the basics) but no issue paying Specialists to be specialists and where maintaining correct service history is essential.
The high water mark in my motoring career was a 25th Anniversary Countach back when they were £45k (If only I'd kept it.....) but that was decades ago when I had the disposable, before marriage and kids etc.
My finances like many people have been up and down through the stages of life, and I'm now in the position where I might be able to stretch to my one remaining unscratched itch - a Ferrari.
As a gentleman of a certain again, the 308 has always been the dream car, however I don't think I could afford one that I'd want to own. I've tried to buy air cooled 911's on a few occasions and given up every time as basically they're mostly all rotters, ex-rotters and /or 50 shades of dog. Proper cherished minters are now daft money for what they are, so that ship has sailed. I feel the 308 likely falls into the same category - shiny on the outside, but a hornet's nest of vipers waiting to be set free on the next owner? Rattarossa / Influenzo type cars are absolutely what I don't want.
This led me to question whether it might be more sensible to buy a newer one - a 355 or a 360 perhaps - my logic being there is a higher chance of buying a genuine cherished minter with no stories, excuses or issues that I can own, love and keep in that status, or are most of these now outside of the 'still original and nice' phase?
I drove a 360 F1 once and thought it was great, although would want a manual, no ifs buts or maybes - no compromise. I'm ALL about the gated shifter.
I look at what £60-£70k appears to buy and I'm not sure if that is the rough end of the market or an area where gems can be found?
I seldom use my cars - they sit in the garage under cover for a few weeks at a time, thern come out on a Sunday if the roads are dry for an hours or so as a exercise run to keep everything running and operational, then get cleaned and put away again for another few weeks. It's just what I do and have always done - each to their own and all that.
I know any Ferrari is going to swallow a few £K in regular maintenance each year regardless of miles / use, but I guess I'm trying to assess what the best compromise between the costs of maintenance, parts, repairs and depreciation are?
I know the 308 and I suspect the 355 are now long past depreciation curves and are just part of the supply and demand market, but wasn't sure if the 360 had bottomed out yet?
I'm a coupe only guy - no spyders, no targa tops, no GTS - GTB manual or bust.
Any initial steer, wisdom or experience welcomed before I start diving in deeper would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Middle aged, had sports or classic cars all my life, some old nails that needed the bottom 6" welding, others needing mechanical rebuilds, others just needing loving and maintaining. I do 90% of the work myself (i.e mostly technically competent for the basics) but no issue paying Specialists to be specialists and where maintaining correct service history is essential.
The high water mark in my motoring career was a 25th Anniversary Countach back when they were £45k (If only I'd kept it.....) but that was decades ago when I had the disposable, before marriage and kids etc.
My finances like many people have been up and down through the stages of life, and I'm now in the position where I might be able to stretch to my one remaining unscratched itch - a Ferrari.
As a gentleman of a certain again, the 308 has always been the dream car, however I don't think I could afford one that I'd want to own. I've tried to buy air cooled 911's on a few occasions and given up every time as basically they're mostly all rotters, ex-rotters and /or 50 shades of dog. Proper cherished minters are now daft money for what they are, so that ship has sailed. I feel the 308 likely falls into the same category - shiny on the outside, but a hornet's nest of vipers waiting to be set free on the next owner? Rattarossa / Influenzo type cars are absolutely what I don't want.
This led me to question whether it might be more sensible to buy a newer one - a 355 or a 360 perhaps - my logic being there is a higher chance of buying a genuine cherished minter with no stories, excuses or issues that I can own, love and keep in that status, or are most of these now outside of the 'still original and nice' phase?
I drove a 360 F1 once and thought it was great, although would want a manual, no ifs buts or maybes - no compromise. I'm ALL about the gated shifter.
I look at what £60-£70k appears to buy and I'm not sure if that is the rough end of the market or an area where gems can be found?
I seldom use my cars - they sit in the garage under cover for a few weeks at a time, thern come out on a Sunday if the roads are dry for an hours or so as a exercise run to keep everything running and operational, then get cleaned and put away again for another few weeks. It's just what I do and have always done - each to their own and all that.
I know any Ferrari is going to swallow a few £K in regular maintenance each year regardless of miles / use, but I guess I'm trying to assess what the best compromise between the costs of maintenance, parts, repairs and depreciation are?
I know the 308 and I suspect the 355 are now long past depreciation curves and are just part of the supply and demand market, but wasn't sure if the 360 had bottomed out yet?
I'm a coupe only guy - no spyders, no targa tops, no GTS - GTB manual or bust.
Any initial steer, wisdom or experience welcomed before I start diving in deeper would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
I bought a 308 for £17500 many years ago. Fully expected a basket case, not the reality at all. It's a very very simple car any decent mechanic can work on. Far less complex and potential expenditure than anything newer. Main thing is to find one that has no rust. The rest you will be able to sort out. Although I've had many many more powerful and exotic cars the 308 still has a charm and appeal all its own.
In general many cars in the Ferrari market have been for sale for a couple of years. Probably as most are SOR with independent dealers and the owners don't want to accept the market has changed. In my present search for an F12, 8 out of 12 examples are SOR and are approaching two years on sale.
In general many cars in the Ferrari market have been for sale for a couple of years. Probably as most are SOR with independent dealers and the owners don't want to accept the market has changed. In my present search for an F12, 8 out of 12 examples are SOR and are approaching two years on sale.
Edited by cgt2 on Sunday 8th March 10:53
cgt2 said:
In general many cars in the Ferrari market have been for sale for a couple of years. Probably as most are SOR with independent dealers and the owners don't want to accept the market has changed. In my present search for an F12, 8 out of 12 examples are SOR and are approaching two years on sale.
Interesting. Is this because the owners are expecting too much and when you add the dealer's fee, it results in a price that puts buyers off?cgt2 said:
I bought a 308 for £17500 many years ago. Fully expected a basket case, not the reality at all. It's a very very simple car any decent mechanic can work on. Far less complex and potential expenditure than anything newer. Main thing is to find one that has no rust. The rest you will be able to sort out. Although I've had many many more powerful and exotic cars the 308 still has a charm and appeal all its own.
In general many cars in the Ferrari market have been for sale for a couple of years. Probably as most are SOR with independent dealers and the owners don't want to accept the market has changed. In my present search for an F12, 8 out of 12 examples are SOR and are approaching two years on sale.
That's encouraging. I remember when a 911 SC was 10k for a nice one and a 308 was £25k for a minter. Then again, a Countach was £45k so all relative. In general many cars in the Ferrari market have been for sale for a couple of years. Probably as most are SOR with independent dealers and the owners don't want to accept the market has changed. In my present search for an F12, 8 out of 12 examples are SOR and are approaching two years on sale.
Edited by cgt2 on Sunday 8th March 10:53
I would love a 308, but I think proper nice ones are too expensive now for my taste. My £60-£70k is pushing the boat out on an anchor stretch - my strategy being that a Ferrari is more fun than an ISA at this stage of life that I can always turn back into an ISA at some point. I really do think I'm too fussy through to afford a good'un. (GTB).
cgt2 said:
Hoofy said:
Interesting. Is this because the owners are expecting too much and when you add the dealer's fee, it results in a price that puts buyers off?
I think so. The Auto Trader tool to see how long a car has been advertised is very useful Not sure why some dealers will add or subtract £3k every other week. Not sure if they think it affects the algo.
OP: What a lovely dilemma to have! I have been lucky enough to have owned most of the V8 cars now. The older ones are quite simple and I’m sure you’d be able to do most of the work yourself. Obvs they are getting older and all will need some work as the years roll by…….
My suggestion (not least ‘cos I currently have one) would be a late 348 - undervalued (I think), within budget and completely classic…. Fast enough for the road but not crazy, epic to drive with the gated ‘box and (in my eyes) looks lovely. Finding one that has been consistently loved is the challenge as you say. These were cheap cars for a while & consequently many will have been poorly maintained. As above, these cars do need care.
My suggestion (not least ‘cos I currently have one) would be a late 348 - undervalued (I think), within budget and completely classic…. Fast enough for the road but not crazy, epic to drive with the gated ‘box and (in my eyes) looks lovely. Finding one that has been consistently loved is the challenge as you say. These were cheap cars for a while & consequently many will have been poorly maintained. As above, these cars do need care.
If you’re looking at 308 GTB but prices are too rich, then take a look at 308 GT4. Easy to spanner yourself and some good YT videos praising the car’s steering and handling prowess.
The ship has sailed on F355s and the maintenance cost is becoming a headache as spare parts dry up. You’ve correctly identified the 360 as the depreciation sweet spot for buying ‘modern’ machinery but note that it’s significantly larger than the F355 and cars that came before it. It’s also less suitable for home wrenching although there are those who do manage to do it. Take a look (if you haven’t already) at Aldous Voice’s buying guide.
The ship has sailed on F355s and the maintenance cost is becoming a headache as spare parts dry up. You’ve correctly identified the 360 as the depreciation sweet spot for buying ‘modern’ machinery but note that it’s significantly larger than the F355 and cars that came before it. It’s also less suitable for home wrenching although there are those who do manage to do it. Take a look (if you haven’t already) at Aldous Voice’s buying guide.
ANOpax said:
If you re looking at 308 GTB but prices are too rich, then take a look at 308 GT4. Easy to spanner yourself and some good YT videos praising the car s steering and handling prowess.
The ship has sailed on F355s and the maintenance cost is becoming a headache as spare parts dry up. You ve correctly identified the 360 as the depreciation sweet spot for buying modern machinery but note that it s significantly larger than the F355 and cars that came before it. It s also less suitable for home wrenching although there are those who do manage to do it. Take a look (if you haven t already) at Aldous Voice s buying guide.
Thank you, that's helpful. The ship has sailed on F355s and the maintenance cost is becoming a headache as spare parts dry up. You ve correctly identified the 360 as the depreciation sweet spot for buying modern machinery but note that it s significantly larger than the F355 and cars that came before it. It s also less suitable for home wrenching although there are those who do manage to do it. Take a look (if you haven t already) at Aldous Voice s buying guide.
I respect the GT4 but it doesn't do anything for me cosmetically, so not one for me.
Are there any specialists or dealers with strong reputations for only selling the best, or is it 'find the car and worry about the vendor later'?
Edited by 25th QV on Sunday 8th March 14:44
NeilTB said:
OP: What a lovely dilemma to have! I have been lucky enough to have owned most of the V8 cars now. The older ones are quite simple and I m sure you d be able to do most of the work yourself. Obvs they are getting older and all will need some work as the years roll by .
My suggestion (not least cos I currently have one) would be a late 348 - undervalued (I think), within budget and completely classic . Fast enough for the road but not crazy, epic to drive with the gated box and (in my eyes) looks lovely. Finding one that has been consistently loved is the challenge as you say. These were cheap cars for a while & consequently many will have been poorly maintained. As above, these cars do need care.
I do like the 348, A friend had one back in the day (before I knew him) and he has had pretty much everything over the years. I recall him saying it was the only car he's owned that had hid 'this close' to putting a match to it, such was his frustrations with reliability issues and 'spooky electrics' etc. I guess he was probably unlucky with that one. My suggestion (not least cos I currently have one) would be a late 348 - undervalued (I think), within budget and completely classic . Fast enough for the road but not crazy, epic to drive with the gated box and (in my eyes) looks lovely. Finding one that has been consistently loved is the challenge as you say. These were cheap cars for a while & consequently many will have been poorly maintained. As above, these cars do need care.
25th QV said:
Thank you, that's helpful.
I respect the GT4 but it doesn't do anything for me cosmetically, so not one for me.
Are there any speci`lists or dealers with strong reputations for only selling the best, or is it 'find the car and worry about the vendor later'?
There are well respected independents and there are also many well known cowboys out there. Unfortunately, the list on both sides of the equation is too long to list here. I respect the GT4 but it doesn't do anything for me cosmetically, so not one for me.
Are there any speci`lists or dealers with strong reputations for only selling the best, or is it 'find the car and worry about the vendor later'?
Given your budget constraints, I’d suggest that you need to find the car first and then have it PPI’d and vetted later.
As one of the experts on 360s, I don’t think it would hurt you to give Voicey a call to see if he knows of anyone who is selling.
The 360 is the last proper DIY mechanic friendly tipo. It’s fairly basic underneath. Modern enough to be fast & fun, but old enough to still feel classic. I would say it is the sweet spot. And now’s probably the best time to bag a good one as the market is probably going to move soon given the bonkers hype around CSs. Enjoyed both manual & F1 in equal measures. The latter needs the CS TCU upgrade to bring the best out of it. Brilliant fun though.
Not sure I'd call 348s under valued. When I had mine, maybe (mid to high £20s) but shortly after that, they shot up. They're great cars, but for me there are better choices at that kind of money.
I went from 348 to 360. Big jump in build quality, felt like a modern car - would be my choice.
I went from 348 to 360. Big jump in build quality, felt like a modern car - would be my choice.
Hoofy said:
Interesting. Is this because the owners are expecting too much and when you add the dealer's fee, it results in a price that puts buyers off?
That's mad, the seller has parked their car up in a dealership for 2 years so can't use it and don't have the cash either. Is it also partly due to the dealers promising the seller a higher value to get the business so the seller thinks it's worth x but it's actually worth x -£15k?
Just another thought. There are lots of good independents out there (Rardleys, KHPC, Foskers, Nick Cartwright etc) that may know of cars that aren't currently officially for sale but the owners could be tempted. Might be worth giving them a call and see if they know of any suitable cars.
I sold a 91 NSX to buy my first 348. Contrary to every opinion (usually from people who have not owned or even driven either of them) I thought the 348 was fantastic. I much preferred it to my later 360 mainly for the steering and weight of the controls. I owned my 308 later but preferred it to both mainly because of the size. But the 348 is very similar and a fantastic car.
A 360 that wasn t a garage queen was my choice. Maintained properly they are great cars, modern but not too modern, quick but not mental, consumables not too expensive.
Amazing engine, makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up at high revs.
Doing a 10 day euro road trip in mine in May, can’t wait.
Amazing engine, makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up at high revs.
Doing a 10 day euro road trip in mine in May, can’t wait.
Edited by blueg33 on Sunday 8th March 21:18
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