F430 spider queries

[TTB]

Hi all,
I'm in the process of selling my AMG GTC and looking at my first 'exotic' if you like. Currently my top choice is a Mc 570 spider and I've done a load of research on those. However, there are a couple of other options I also want to consider and one of those is an F430 spider (I need roof off on a sports car). Other 2 options are 992 Carrera and complete change of tact - early 308 Carb,

I know there are a few posts on these cars and I've looked so know the main foibles - manifolds, suspension rubber made of chocolate etc. but what are they like to own and drive? Are they generally very reliable? Manifolds for example wouldn't mean a recovery truck.
What are running costs like via a specialist as well?

I know roof alignment has been mentioned a few times - how common is this and is there an easy way to tell if it's going to go?

Also what is the F1 gearbox like to live with? I've only driven a very easy 355 with the F1 and it was horrendous. Guess a lot of that was sorted by the 430?

There are 2 cars at present of interest, can I ask if anyone knows them (I'm not a fan of red);
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202603090...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202510117...

Edited by TTB on Wednesday 22 April 11:05

[blueg33]

F1 gearbox is much improved by the time it gets into the 430 but is still old tech. You have to drive as though is a manual rather than an auto, but when you are used to it it’s fine except in stop start traffic where it is irritating!

[M138]

I know when my brother had one and the manifolds went they were replaced with a supposed uprated type.
Make sure the roof operates good and is in good condition as the cost of a new Ferrari roof is eye watering, I’m guessing there’re cheaper options now though.
Check the clutch is good as theF1 gearboxes can get through them.
If you do buy one it would be a good idea to get a diagnostic tool which can now be had for a reasonable price, the Launch X431 Pro-Mini works on my Maserati. It will help to avoid being at the mercy of a Ferrari specialist all the time.
Best of luck with your new purchase.

[datelessregistrations]

The McLaren is faster, better handling and far more modern. But it doesn’t sound good.

The f430 sounds better and will likely appreciate in value whereas the McLaren won’t.

The f1 box is older and slower that’s true but it does give the car character and the paddles still work well rather than it feeling like a computer game.

For driving - McLaren
For sound and capital appreciation potential - F430

[ex-devonpaul]

I ran a 2006 Gransport for 6 years with the F1 box, which was supposed to be about as good as it got.

It was OK if you treated it right and I did get used to it, but never really liked it. Queueing to get into Silverstone or motorway queues for an accident was the worst, as you had to leave long gaps then get it to engage otherwise it would just slip and could overheat and then you just have to stop and wait. I avoided it, but a friend got stranded in the queue for the classic.

430 prices have been a bit all over the place - they rose strongly from 2009 to 2020, but unless it is top notch they seem to have dropped back again, so personally I don't see them as having any better investment potential than a 570. Similar numbers for sale as well.

But I bought a Gransport instead of a Honda NSX, so what do I know

[ajm_ph]

I owned an F430 Spider for 3 years, then replaced it with a 650S 2 years ago, so hopefully have a good view here.

The F430 is still a cracking car to drive, it straddles the line between the old-school 355/360 and the very much more modern feeling 458/488. It's less refined and doesn't have the equipment and modern feel of a 570 or newer Ferrari, but that means you feel more connected to the road. It still has the analogue feel of an old-school supercar. The engine sounds amazing, and revving a normally aspirated Ferrari V8 to 8500 rpm will never, ever, ever get old.

The F1 gearbox is honestly fine, I know Clarkson and the other motoring journalists of the time love to decry it, but it's really not bad. Drive it like a manual, on the paddles all the time, and unless you are going all out give a little lift on upshifts to smooth the change, and you'll get on just fine. I had mine for 3 years and I think I drove it in auto mode for about 5 minutes in total.

Manifolds are fragile but honestly at this point I'd expect most of them to have been replaced with uprated items by now anyway. Suspension bushes are consumable items if you have the car for a few years you will be replacing at least some, but just budget for that, they aren't all that expensive. Get a clutch wear check, but if you drive sympathetically and aren't doing track days or regular full-bore upshifts they don't wear that much. I covered 10k miles in mine and the clutch only wore by a single-digit percentage.

I think my annual services, including getting the recommended work carried out, averaged about £1500 a year. As I gather that's probably a reasonable amount to budget, but don't be surprised if it's higher than that. I'd probably allow £2k come service time, and take any savings from that as a bonus. I can't speak for everyone, but my insurance was really cheap with the Ferrari. I think I paid about £400 for my last year in it, which doubled to £800 when I changed to the McLaren.

The McLaren is, objectively, a better car in every way. Faster, more refined, better technology, everything on paper is better, but for that small percentage of the time when you are pressing on and driving the car hard, the 430 comes alive in a way that is hard to match. In those times the relative lack of refinement, and the fact you have to work the engine harder to access the performance, just adds to the drama. I am glad to have owned both the 430 and the 650, and I am also glad that I owned them in the order I did.

Edited by ajm_ph on Thursday 23 April 10:28

[TTB]

Thank you all for some great advice.
I think I may need to try one in that case. In an ideal world a 430 manual would be spot on but they are way over my budget.

Either way it's a nice decision to have to make and I can't complain, not everybody is lucky enough to have to choose between Ferrari, Mac and Porsche etc

My 4 choices (992 era 911, 308, 430 spider and 570 spider) are all so different its going to be a nice choice either way

[cgt2]

I have an AMG GT and had a McLaren until very recently. The AMG is phenomenal for the price point, more than holds its own against cars double the price. Sound wise for sure. I'm now looking at an F12 to replace the Mac but even at £100k more I'm not convinced it is a better car than the AMG. Having previously owned F430's (both manual and F1) I'm sure much the same applies. Do have a drive and judge for yourself.

I've had a Carb 308 too, lots of fun and very different (in a good way) to anything modern.

[TTB]

Thank you, what mac did you own and how do you rate it against the Merc?

[Reggie20]

I had a similar(ish) dilemma. I was toying with the idea of either a 992 Targa or a 355 Spider. Both had to be a manual. I tried both and although the 992 was better in virtually every area it was a bit 'meh'! The 355 on the other hand just brought a huge grin to my face and it still does every time I drive it. Then when you park it up and look back at it I know which one I'd prefer!

In fairness none of them are a duff choice but I know which way I'd go - the Ferrari is just an 'event' every time you're in it.

Enjoy the decision making process.

[cgt2]

TTB said:

Thank you, what mac did you own and how do you rate it against the Merc?

Very late 12C Spider with inconel exhaust. The Merc possibly still sounded better to my ears in some ways but then I grew up with big engined naturally aspirated cars which the AMG sounds like despite being turbocharged. The McLaren is obviously lighter and faster but on some days I would definitely pick the AMG. With most McLarens the envelope of usable performance is so far above what you can use on the public road. The minute you twitch the throttle you are way into very high speeds.

In contrast the Merc is an experience at any speed, it reminds me a lot of a muscle car but with impeccable build and solidity while still handling in a very balanced way. It is an absolutely wonderful car and very underrated.

[blueg33]

Reggie20 said:

I had a similar(ish) dilemma. I was toying with the idea of either a 992 Targa or a 355 Spider. Both had to be a manual. I tried both and although the 992 was better in virtually every area it was a bit 'meh'! The 355 on the other hand just brought a huge grin to my face and it still does every time I drive it. Then when you park it up and look back at it I know which one I'd prefer!

In fairness none of them are a duff choice but I know which way I'd go - the Ferrari is just an 'event' every time you're in it.

Enjoy the decision making process.

I have a mate with a 992 targa, on paper it is better in every respect than my Ferrari 360, but I prefer the Ferrari

In a French supermarket car park, the Ferrari and the 992 were parked next to each other. A Frenchman wandered over and said "Ferrari, she is beautiful" my friend pointed tohis car and said "Porsche" the Frenchman said "Pah, Porsche! The Ferrari is beautiful"

Frienfd was gutted. Paper stats are not always what these cars are about.

[Trev450]

You can't help being impressed at the capability of the 992 but that in itself is it's achilies heel as it quickly becomes a non-event.

[ajm_ph]

cgt2 said:

With most McLarens the envelope of usable performance is so far above what you can use on the public road. The minute you twitch the throttle you are way into very high speeds.

This is definitely a factor.
In the F430, and all the Astons I had before that, I felt that I was occasionally able to use all the performance available. I could, on the right road, feel like I was pushing the F430. The 650S is so much faster that I just don't feel I can safely do that in the south of England except for very, very brief periods, it's limits are just so high. I was used to the performance of the Ferrari when I first test drove the McLaren, and when the turbos kicked in at 30mph with the throttle wide open the acceleration just felt absolutely savage. I know a 570 wouldn't be quite as quick as a 650, but still a big gap from the 430.

None of which is a criticism as such, I'm not trying to say more performance is a bad thing, but it is a difference between the two cars.

[Ted Maul]

Owning an F430, or any Ferrari for that matter, isn't a casual endeavour. I've had mine (F430 Spider F1) for four years now and it's been a blast but cheap it ain't. At one point it was costing £4k a year just to own it, storage, insurance, tax and a service. Factor in consumables such as balljoints and it can get expensive. It sounds counter intuitive but avoid low mileage garage queens, you want car that's been used by an enthusiast who has looked after it and replaced those rubbery bits that will perish.

I think in my four years of ownership I've spent probably in the region of £20k on servicing, upgrades and consumables but then I don't believe in shortchanging these cars because when you're pressing on in the Alps, as I've done a couple of times, nothing beats the noise of a Ferrari V8 two feet behind your skull at full chat. Nothing. It is utterly intoxicating and highly addictive.

Other cars are objectively better in many respects, power, comfort, etc but they're not a Ferrari. Do it now because one day you won't be able to.

[blueg33]

My 360 is about £2k pa on average including insurance for business use. Thats about the same as our Volvo V60.