Discussion
Is it just me or is anyone else getting increasingly hacked off with SP&L?
There seems to be a massive influx of posters who seem to be able to have an argument with themselves in an empty room. Or as someone put it, constantly seeking a mirror to have an argument with. Some of them so full of themelves it's unbelievable, despite being utterly and factually incorrect on so many issues.
Now we can all have different points of view, express and stick to them if we believe it right, and continue to defend against all comers. No issue with that.
However there seems to be a number of particular culprits who regularly selectively quote things out of context, or separate points which are clearly linked and in context with each other just to argue black is white on one line, and then the reverse on the next.
It's getting tiresome, quite a few of us now who refuse to respond to certain posters and try to ignore them.
I'm out until it calms down.
There seems to be a massive influx of posters who seem to be able to have an argument with themselves in an empty room. Or as someone put it, constantly seeking a mirror to have an argument with. Some of them so full of themelves it's unbelievable, despite being utterly and factually incorrect on so many issues.
Now we can all have different points of view, express and stick to them if we believe it right, and continue to defend against all comers. No issue with that.
However there seems to be a number of particular culprits who regularly selectively quote things out of context, or separate points which are clearly linked and in context with each other just to argue black is white on one line, and then the reverse on the next.
It's getting tiresome, quite a few of us now who refuse to respond to certain posters and try to ignore them.
I'm out until it calms down.
FiF said:
Is it just me or is anyone else getting increasingly hacked off with SP&L?
There seems to be a massive influx of posters who seem to be able to have an argument with themselves in an empty room. Or as someone put it, constantly seeking a mirror to have an argument with. Some of them so full of themelves it's unbelievable, despite being utterly and factually incorrect on so many issues.
However there seems to be a number of particular culprits who regularly selectively quote things out of context, or separate points which are clearly linked and in context with each other just to argue black is white on one line, and then the reverse on the next
.
Use the report button, if the mods see fit they will have words with those responsible, or take further action if necessary.There seems to be a massive influx of posters who seem to be able to have an argument with themselves in an empty room. Or as someone put it, constantly seeking a mirror to have an argument with. Some of them so full of themelves it's unbelievable, despite being utterly and factually incorrect on so many issues.
However there seems to be a number of particular culprits who regularly selectively quote things out of context, or separate points which are clearly linked and in context with each other just to argue black is white on one line, and then the reverse on the next
.
The worst thing is when what's posted is factually incorrect.
You can have half a dozen people trying to show that theyre particularly well built outweighing some guy that's done the research and found out whats what and/or tested it. It doesnt matter if the guy lays out the case, theyre so well built they must be right
The report button doesnt work if the relevant mod is one of the team. Eventually you get stuff taken as fact when it isnt and the next newbie gets fed the same thing.
Whether or not it matters is whether you take the view its only a forum and only pub talk or whether you think the info given should have some useful basis to it.
I guess it's only a forum. cheers FiF
You can have half a dozen people trying to show that theyre particularly well built outweighing some guy that's done the research and found out whats what and/or tested it. It doesnt matter if the guy lays out the case, theyre so well built they must be right
The report button doesnt work if the relevant mod is one of the team. Eventually you get stuff taken as fact when it isnt and the next newbie gets fed the same thing.
Whether or not it matters is whether you take the view its only a forum and only pub talk or whether you think the info given should have some useful basis to it.
I guess it's only a forum. cheers FiF
Shaw Tarse said:
Use the report button, if the mods see fit they will have words with those responsible, or take further action if necessary.
All due respect and all but I find reporting threads to be a waste of time. I've yet to see any action taken despite posts which clearly contravene PH's regs being reported. There's also never any feedback either way.Though noting Big Al's post below, I'm now assuming I must be on the mod s
t list! 
To be fair, I reported a thread in SP&L the other day, and the thread was closed fairly smartly with the comment that the thread was shameful and embarrassing, which indeed it was.
I also pointed out the main culprit on that thread who had been the cause of much acrimony then and over a period of time. That poster is still here and still being a pain.
Nevertheless I respect the moderator's decision as, having done it for a time elsewhere than PH, it's a thankless task.
Have to say that on the site where I moderated, we intentionally had a very light touch on certain sub forums, and even at that level, some of the SP&L usual suspects would have been binned long ago by now.
I also pointed out the main culprit on that thread who had been the cause of much acrimony then and over a period of time. That poster is still here and still being a pain.
Nevertheless I respect the moderator's decision as, having done it for a time elsewhere than PH, it's a thankless task.
Have to say that on the site where I moderated, we intentionally had a very light touch on certain sub forums, and even at that level, some of the SP&L usual suspects would have been binned long ago by now.
Kinky said:
The other problem is that most of the resident BiB were driven away from it years ago, by the volume of morons who seem to reside there.
Plus it did not help that BiB could be held to account for anything they posted on public forums
That's why I stopped going on there. If there are any recent posts from me in SP&L it's because the thread was originally in General Gassing. The sheer number of ill informed argumentative idiots who wanted to pick a fight over policing became very tiresome and I decided my time was better spent elsewhere.Plus it did not help that BiB could be held to account for anything they posted on public forums
Would it not be possible to either:-
a)Make SP&L a read-only forum which can only be posted in by bone-fide persons who have a background in law (BiB, lawyers, insurance etc.) Other people can ask for permission to post questions and will lose the posting right when the question is answered (or possibly till they break the rules?).
b)Keep the access rights as they are now but give Bone-fide legal people a star or some other mark next to their posting details so that all can see that the person answering is doing so with some authority. Possibly other posters can earn this right if they are sensible.
Just a thought.
a)Make SP&L a read-only forum which can only be posted in by bone-fide persons who have a background in law (BiB, lawyers, insurance etc.) Other people can ask for permission to post questions and will lose the posting right when the question is answered (or possibly till they break the rules?).
b)Keep the access rights as they are now but give Bone-fide legal people a star or some other mark next to their posting details so that all can see that the person answering is doing so with some authority. Possibly other posters can earn this right if they are sensible.
Just a thought.
There are a small number of posters who won't accept clear facts, no matter how clearly presented, then non BiB and BiB who take every opportunity to have a dig at one another without any good reason. The odd thread degenerates into meaningless rhetoric but, overall, SP&L is a useful part of the forum and doesn't need any wholesale changes.
PoleDriver said:
Would it not be possible to either:-
a)Make SP&L a read-only forum which can only be posted in by bone-fide persons who have a background in law (BiB, lawyers, insurance etc.) Other people can ask for permission to post questions and will lose the posting right when the question is answered (or possibly till they break the rules?).
b)Keep the access rights as they are now but give Bone-fide legal people a star or some other mark next to their posting details so that all can see that the person answering is doing so with some authority. Possibly other posters can earn this right if they are sensible.
Just a thought.
Problem is how do you decide who is a so called bone fide persona)Make SP&L a read-only forum which can only be posted in by bone-fide persons who have a background in law (BiB, lawyers, insurance etc.) Other people can ask for permission to post questions and will lose the posting right when the question is answered (or possibly till they break the rules?).
b)Keep the access rights as they are now but give Bone-fide legal people a star or some other mark next to their posting details so that all can see that the person answering is doing so with some authority. Possibly other posters can earn this right if they are sensible.
Just a thought.
Even those who claim to know what the law is sometimes get it wrong.
The best people are those who are willing to admit they're wrong when they make a mistake. Worst are those that continue to try to show how what they said could have been right once if there was an X in the month
Maybe that should be the basis for a scoring system
saaby93 said:
roblem is how do you decide who is a so called bone fide person
Even those who claim to know what the law is sometimes get it wrong.
The best people are those who are willing to admit they're wrong when they make a mistake. Worst are those that continue to try to show how what they said could have been right once if there was an X in the month
Maybe that should be the basis for a scoring system
My vote would go to serving BiB, lawyers, people with personal experience.Even those who claim to know what the law is sometimes get it wrong.
The best people are those who are willing to admit they're wrong when they make a mistake. Worst are those that continue to try to show how what they said could have been right once if there was an X in the month
Maybe that should be the basis for a scoring system
Those that post crap that they found on the Internet should be banned!
Shaw Tarse said:
My vote would go to serving BiB, lawyers, people with personal experience.
Those that post crap that they found on the Internet should be banned!
That might work - but youd still have to decide Those that post crap that they found on the Internet should be banned!
If someone or a few people post their personal experience of how the law works in practice,
but a few BiB say that's not what happens in our force so it can't happen anywhere
or lawyers say that's not how it should be my interpreted - it cant happen
Who wins - the real life people or the supposed experts?
Why cant you have it posted up in a way that shows the difference between the lawyers opinion, this is how some BiB deal with it, but here's what really happens in practice?
Instead of a circular argument
saaby93 said:
Why cant you have it posted up in a way that shows the difference between the lawyers opinion, this is how some BiB deal with it, but here's what really happens in practice?
Because lawyers and BiB know "what really happens in practice"? A lay person sees their experience from a particular point of view which won't necessarily (or even usually) give them an insight as to what the spectrum of possible outcomes are, or where they sit on the spectrum. The real issue with limited posting rights is that non-lawyers/BiB will want to ask questions, so be the OP, and they and other non lawyers/BiB may want to ask follow ups. Quite difficult to see how, practically, you organise a forum like that.
Greg66 said:
Because lawyers and BiB know "what really happens in practice"? A
At that point we begin a circular discussion 
They might claim they know but because they haven't been at the sharp end and followed it through they dont necesarily know all the ins and outs
They can only say what they believe it is.
Once they've seen or heard from real posters what really happens they might vary their opinion.
Which is what Shaw Tarse said about experience.
When a new poster asks a question do they need to know what really happens or someones opinion on what they believe should happen?
saaby93 said:
t that point we begin a circular discussion
They might claim they know but because they haven't been at the sharp end and followed it through they dont necesarily know all the ins and outs
They can only say what they believe it is.
Once they've seen or heard from real posters what really happens they might vary their opinion.
Which is what Shaw Tarse said about experience.
When a new poster asks a question do they need to know what really happens or someones opinion on what they believe should happen?
You don't read posts all the way to the end, do you?They might claim they know but because they haven't been at the sharp end and followed it through they dont necesarily know all the ins and outs
They can only say what they believe it is.
Once they've seen or heard from real posters what really happens they might vary their opinion.
Which is what Shaw Tarse said about experience.
When a new poster asks a question do they need to know what really happens or someones opinion on what they believe should happen?
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