Discussion
They're not really Wiki pages, are they? They're forum posts where everyone has edit privileges to the same post.
A real Wiki allows you to view the change history and roll back changes when twunts mess the page up or inadvertently revert your changes. And on that subject, they can detect concurrent changes / collisions and resolve them rather than just overwriting the other person's change.
I'm thinking primarily of this page that keeps getting broken by people who don't know how the formatting works.
A real Wiki allows you to view the change history and roll back changes when twunts mess the page up or inadvertently revert your changes. And on that subject, they can detect concurrent changes / collisions and resolve them rather than just overwriting the other person's change.
I'm thinking primarily of this page that keeps getting broken by people who don't know how the formatting works.
Our wiki system is still being developed, it is not perfect and bug reports/suggetions are very welcome.
The wikis do allow rollbacks, but i agree that a change history would be a very good idea.
We have also made some changes to the locking system last week which should hopefully help with the concurrent editing problems, although this is a difficult problem to ever solve completely.
The wikis do allow rollbacks, but i agree that a change history would be a very good idea.
We have also made some changes to the locking system last week which should hopefully help with the concurrent editing problems, although this is a difficult problem to ever solve completely.
robwales said:
Also it would be nice if the changes made to a wiki since you last visited were highlighted in some way. They appear in my info when updated, but if it's a large wiki it's impossible to notice what's changed.
In something like MediaWiki (which is what Wikipedia runs on) you'd just do a diff in the change history between the last version you'd seen and the current.To be honest, the whole concept of Wiki pages in PH is a huge can of worms. The GS is forum software and was never written to be a Wiki (as far as I can deduce - Ted can correct me if I'm wrong).
By offering a pseudo-Wiki (which, as I said, seems to be actually a thread that has only one post and is editable by all) it is raising the expectation amongst users for the features of a true Wiki which is presumably going to be a pretty non-trivial task to implement.
Agree with JonRB on this, it's a mamoth task to replicate even a tiny percentage of the functions that Mediawiki offers. The biggest omission IMHO is the lack of any visibility of what changed at each revision point. It doesn't have to be clever or complex, just the ability to click on a link and see what text was edited at that point. Great example is the "recommended restaurants / pubs" page, where the list is so long, it is totally useless because other than pore over the entire list every time, it's impossible to see what has been added.
JonRB said:
They're not really Wiki pages, are they? They're forum posts where everyone has edit privileges to the same post.
A real Wiki allows you to view the change history and roll back changes when twunts mess the page up or inadvertently revert your changes. And on that subject, they can detect concurrent changes / collisions and resolve them rather than just overwriting the other person's change.
I'm thinking primarily of this page that keeps getting broken by people who don't know how the formatting works.
A real Wiki allows you to view the change history and roll back changes when twunts mess the page up or inadvertently revert your changes. And on that subject, they can detect concurrent changes / collisions and resolve them rather than just overwriting the other person's change.
I'm thinking primarily of this page that keeps getting broken by people who don't know how the formatting works.
I take your point about a difference facility, but I don't think that's cause to write the whole thing off as "not really a Wiki".
- Collisions are now managed by a locking mechanism (implemented this week)
- There is a history and rollback mechanism which currently is only visible to mods, but I'm happy to open that up
- Full table of contents facilities are available as well as inter-page linking although they're not being used much yet.
That's been achieved and I believe forms a good basis onto which we can build the extra features required. Usage is now at a point where the difference facility is greatly needed. I'm sure in due course we'll need other tools which we'll build when required.
To be honest, building lists of who owns what wasn't really what I anticipated it being used for, but c'est la vie. Some of the "useful links", "owners guide" Wikis are more in the vein of what I hoped it would be used for.
I figured that plugging this functionality into the forums was a better solution than just putting a Wiki on PH only to find that no one was using it because most interaction with the site is via the forums.
Yes, it needs more features, but please just tell us what you'd like rather than dismiss it.
I'm sorry if my post(s) came across as dismissing the Wiki functionality, 'Ted. That wasn't my intention, although I can see from re-reading that it could be read as such.
I think it was more that I was commenting that we were in a bit if a "halfway house" at present (especially given that I didn't know that locking was now in place, given I haven't be able to go on PH as much as normal lately due to work commitments).
But you make some fair points. There certainly is a need for knowledge-base type pages and a Wiki style is unquestionably the way to do that - no argument there. And, agreed, car lists probably aren't the best use of functionality, but as you say it seems to be what people want to do.
On a more light-hearted note, was there a point in the Wiki functionality when you thought "oh god, what have I started?"
(I get those with my code too
)
I think it was more that I was commenting that we were in a bit if a "halfway house" at present (especially given that I didn't know that locking was now in place, given I haven't be able to go on PH as much as normal lately due to work commitments).
But you make some fair points. There certainly is a need for knowledge-base type pages and a Wiki style is unquestionably the way to do that - no argument there. And, agreed, car lists probably aren't the best use of functionality, but as you say it seems to be what people want to do.
On a more light-hearted note, was there a point in the Wiki functionality when you thought "oh god, what have I started?"
(I get those with my code too
)Edited by JonRB on Sunday 4th May 15:12
Ok, I'm probably being a bit defensive, but you know how it is.
Basically the 'ownership' Wikis have seen a lot more use in the last few weeks. The functionality was first implemented about a year ago, but only this week have we seen lots of use.
I'll build functionality as it's required.
Next stop, difference engine. Give me 2-3 weeks
Basically the 'ownership' Wikis have seen a lot more use in the last few weeks. The functionality was first implemented about a year ago, but only this week have we seen lots of use.
I'll build functionality as it's required.
Next stop, difference engine. Give me 2-3 weeks
Ted, can't you steal this in part?
http://quickdiff.com/index.php
As for Wikis, i have to apologise for creating some crap ones in the P&P, i tried to redeem myself in some of the marque forums, Rolls Royce and Noble come to mind.
http://quickdiff.com/index.php
As for Wikis, i have to apologise for creating some crap ones in the P&P, i tried to redeem myself in some of the marque forums, Rolls Royce and Noble come to mind.
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