2 pennies on users, change and rudeness (GG & SP&L)
Discussion
I perfectly understand why PH wants to control (for want of a better word) the type of user, and by implication content in the old P&P, whether due to legal issues, racism or classification in filtering software.
What I feel hasn't been addressed, and for me is a far bigger detractor to PH user-ship, is the general quality of posters in the motoring section declining. They don't post anything particularly offensive, or anything that warrants clicking report but simply post rubbish. What always made PH stand out for me was the informed, articulate posters. While I don't expect every post to be Derestrictoresque, full of elegant prose, a certain standard is expected; this is slipping, and slipping rapidly. The problem seems particularly bad in the top end of the forum; once you get into the specific fora it abates.
I think the issue can be split into a couple of main groups of troublemakers.
1) The trolls you get on every site looking for trouble and use General Gasing as it is the 'main' forum.
2) People spoiling for a fight with the BiB in SP&L
3) People posting totally moronic comments on threads relating to news articles, presumably who come to the site primarily because of the news, not the forum, and don't appreciate the tone of the place.
How do you fix it? For a start, you could put all of the threads relating to front page articles in their own forum (a new use for the Motoring News area) or introduce a comments system for news stories, much like other blogs. Sensible posters can start informed debate on the vehicle somewhere else on the site, not linked to the front page. Very hardline moderation in GG and SP&L (using the resources freed by the new P&P) would also serve to re-establish the tone, and preserve the quality for others.
What I feel hasn't been addressed, and for me is a far bigger detractor to PH user-ship, is the general quality of posters in the motoring section declining. They don't post anything particularly offensive, or anything that warrants clicking report but simply post rubbish. What always made PH stand out for me was the informed, articulate posters. While I don't expect every post to be Derestrictoresque, full of elegant prose, a certain standard is expected; this is slipping, and slipping rapidly. The problem seems particularly bad in the top end of the forum; once you get into the specific fora it abates.
I think the issue can be split into a couple of main groups of troublemakers.
1) The trolls you get on every site looking for trouble and use General Gasing as it is the 'main' forum.
2) People spoiling for a fight with the BiB in SP&L
3) People posting totally moronic comments on threads relating to news articles, presumably who come to the site primarily because of the news, not the forum, and don't appreciate the tone of the place.
How do you fix it? For a start, you could put all of the threads relating to front page articles in their own forum (a new use for the Motoring News area) or introduce a comments system for news stories, much like other blogs. Sensible posters can start informed debate on the vehicle somewhere else on the site, not linked to the front page. Very hardline moderation in GG and SP&L (using the resources freed by the new P&P) would also serve to re-establish the tone, and preserve the quality for others.
I actually found the old P&P to be far less of an issue than these two. Personally I would have left it essentially as is (maybe split into comedy, serious and detritus ), but moved it to the very bottom of the site, and readable only to signed in members, who have been on the site more than a month. Two months before you could post. The hidden nature, if done well, should stop SEO/filering bots picking up on the content. PPrune do this, and it seems to work well.
It gets rid of the new users that post crap, and stops them frustrating existing members. I think it was this frustration that caused most of the reports of bullying etc. It was self-moderation failing due to a unstoppable tide of crap and people reaching breaking point, unleashing their frustration, rather than pure malice (in the bulk of cases I imagine).
As for GG, I stand by my earlier suggestion of separating interesting comments on cars, from normally stupid comments on new stories. I don't think setting an example works in this case. The problem is endemic to almost all news sites. Its more effective to quarantine the morons.
SP&L is far more difficult. I can only see it being solved by lots of moderation, heavy usage of forum specific bans, hiding it/longer time before posting to reduce it's attractiveness to t
ts and maybe a change of name to remove any direct link to the police. Call it 'Motoring Law' or something.
It gets rid of the new users that post crap, and stops them frustrating existing members. I think it was this frustration that caused most of the reports of bullying etc. It was self-moderation failing due to a unstoppable tide of crap and people reaching breaking point, unleashing their frustration, rather than pure malice (in the bulk of cases I imagine).
As for GG, I stand by my earlier suggestion of separating interesting comments on cars, from normally stupid comments on new stories. I don't think setting an example works in this case. The problem is endemic to almost all news sites. Its more effective to quarantine the morons.
SP&L is far more difficult. I can only see it being solved by lots of moderation, heavy usage of forum specific bans, hiding it/longer time before posting to reduce it's attractiveness to t
ts and maybe a change of name to remove any direct link to the police. Call it 'Motoring Law' or something. 
Gazboy said:
bobthemonkey said:
As for GG, I stand by my earlier suggestion of separating interesting comments on cars, from normally stupid comments on new stories. I don't think setting an example works in this case. The problem is endemic to almost all news sites. Its more effective to quarantine the morons.
How would you police it- deleted moronic crap on sight or is there something obvious that I've missed?I guess I'm thinking of a sandbox/padded cell. People get to say their stupid little comments but they are all dumped into a separate forum so they are easily ignored. If PH'ers (as opposed to outsiders commenting on the news, if you see what I mean) want a sensible discussion, they can have one out of sight of casual users. Mods would have to endure multiple threads however.
Sorry if this sounds a little 'us and them' but there is a distinction between PH users and people who just sign up to post a news comment and then leave.
bobthemonkey said:
Gazboy said:
bobthemonkey said:
As for GG, I stand by my earlier suggestion of separating interesting comments on cars, from normally stupid comments on new stories. I don't think setting an example works in this case. The problem is endemic to almost all news sites. Its more effective to quarantine the morons.
How would you police it- deleted moronic crap on sight or is there something obvious that I've missed?I guess I'm thinking of a sandbox/padded cell. People get to say their stupid little comments but they are all dumped into a separate forum so they are easily ignored. If PH'ers (as opposed to outsiders commenting on the news, if you see what I mean) want a sensible discussion, they can have one out of sight of casual users. Mods would have to endure multiple threads however.
Sorry if this sounds a little 'us and them' but there is a distinction between PH users and people who just sign up to post a news comment and then leave.
As long as we are careful with the editorial tone of the site (and liberal with the banhammer when required) the news stories in the main forums will continue to benefit the community more than they hinder it.
Mr Will said:
bobthemonkey said:
Gazboy said:
bobthemonkey said:
As for GG, I stand by my earlier suggestion of separating interesting comments on cars, from normally stupid comments on new stories. I don't think setting an example works in this case. The problem is endemic to almost all news sites. Its more effective to quarantine the morons.
How would you police it- deleted moronic crap on sight or is there something obvious that I've missed?I guess I'm thinking of a sandbox/padded cell. People get to say their stupid little comments but they are all dumped into a separate forum so they are easily ignored. If PH'ers (as opposed to outsiders commenting on the news, if you see what I mean) want a sensible discussion, they can have one out of sight of casual users. Mods would have to endure multiple threads however.
Sorry if this sounds a little 'us and them' but there is a distinction between PH users and people who just sign up to post a news comment and then leave.
As long as we are careful with the editorial tone of the site (and liberal with the banhammer when required) the news stories in the main forums will continue to benefit the community more than they hinder it.
Gassing Station | Website Feedback | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff