Discussion
JCFF said:
flemke said:
Was the 488 factory-supplied or a genuine customer car?
You make a v good point..factory supplied with a whole team of engineers i imagine.That circuit is quite tight, hence why the Porsche 991 turbo S does so well, gets the power down out of the slower corners. Perhaps the 488's torque management to make it seem more NA also gets the power down more efficiently than the Mac?
They are all so close does it really matter?
You know how I would make each car faster? Driver tuition and some bravery pills.
The human part of it with these cars is the main limiting factor nowadays.
They are all so close does it really matter?
You know how I would make each car faster? Driver tuition and some bravery pills.
The human part of it with these cars is the main limiting factor nowadays.
Edited by Gandahar on Friday 7th October 00:47
Ferrari turned up with a full team of engineers. Was different driver on a different day. Most importantly it was a Ferrari press car. Ferrari's press cars are tuned up and that's a fact, the McL's are not.
I have one friend who bought a press car, years later the engine needed stripping down and work was required on the suspension. The engineers asked what my friend had done to the car as there were lots of non-standard bespoke parts made from better, lighter, materials. Of course he hadn't done anything, the car was specially made for the press.
You will only ever see press cars and therefore tweaked / improved cars in tests. If a customer car is used it is well known Ferrari will not be favourable if you want a new car, you certainly won't get a special edition and you will be considered an 'outsider' and traitor. If you are press (EVO included) and use a customer car then its game over in terms of ever getting your hands on a Ferrari again.
McL just provide normal cars. Just look at the 12C in EVO, it was a knackered mule, chassis No.1.
Make your own conclusions but I would view results with Ferrari's with a pinch of salt.
I have one friend who bought a press car, years later the engine needed stripping down and work was required on the suspension. The engineers asked what my friend had done to the car as there were lots of non-standard bespoke parts made from better, lighter, materials. Of course he hadn't done anything, the car was specially made for the press.
You will only ever see press cars and therefore tweaked / improved cars in tests. If a customer car is used it is well known Ferrari will not be favourable if you want a new car, you certainly won't get a special edition and you will be considered an 'outsider' and traitor. If you are press (EVO included) and use a customer car then its game over in terms of ever getting your hands on a Ferrari again.
McL just provide normal cars. Just look at the 12C in EVO, it was a knackered mule, chassis No.1.
Make your own conclusions but I would view results with Ferrari's with a pinch of salt.
You are dreaming if you think Mclaren now aren't playing the same game that Ferrari do, albeit probably not to the same extent. They learnt that lesson pretty well when the 'standard' 458 smoked the 12c back in 2011. The press 570s have been clocking up some extraordinary numbers in some of the german mag tests for example. And if you had read one of the prior evo issues, Mclaren had specifically hunted down chassis 1 and it almost certainly has had a full refresh at the factory to be better than when it left MTC.
Edited by isaldiri on Friday 7th October 09:19
CTE said:
458 smoked a 12c (ha ha ha)...I own a 12c because it was a far better car than the 458 that I test drove (shame because the 458 has been my dream car or so long)...infact so was my Evora S that I owned at the time...not in a straight line of course, but in every other way.
Must admit I don't recall the 458 smoking the 12C ?? Maybe I'm getting old and my memory is fading Anyway was it the same 458 that was chewed up and spat out by the 650S.
I'm a Ferrari fan and owner and we all know that they make the most of these occasions and regular production cars for customers are not quite the same as their press cars for some reason.
I'm not knocking them and find it quite amusing and endearing in a way but lets not be fooled FFS
Well the press 458 absolutely smoked the 12c. I suggest you read the Car/evo comparison tests in summer 2011 at Bedford west and Rockingham. Amusingly enough that same 458 in the same test with 'standard' supersports also clocked a better laptime thana gt2rs with cup tyres........ mclaren most assuredly have not forgotten that.
If Ferrari were using tuned riggers surely they would have done it with the Laferrari at Portimao?
No doubt they send their mechanics along to make sure that the car is set up optimally for the track but I've never seen a Ferrari performing faster in a straight line than it would be expected to do. Even 458 that set the eyebrow raising Bedford laptime recorded a lower peak speed down the main straight than the pre upgrade MP4 12c and comfortably lost the drag race.
There's no doubt customer 570s have significantly more power than the official 562bhp figure. Mclaren wanted it to outperform the 911 Turbo S and the R8 but didn't want to p
s off 650s owners too much. From what I've seen a 570s will push a 650s or a 488 up to 150mph.
No doubt they send their mechanics along to make sure that the car is set up optimally for the track but I've never seen a Ferrari performing faster in a straight line than it would be expected to do. Even 458 that set the eyebrow raising Bedford laptime recorded a lower peak speed down the main straight than the pre upgrade MP4 12c and comfortably lost the drag race.
There's no doubt customer 570s have significantly more power than the official 562bhp figure. Mclaren wanted it to outperform the 911 Turbo S and the R8 but didn't want to p
s off 650s owners too much. From what I've seen a 570s will push a 650s or a 488 up to 150mph.ajjers said:
If Ferrari were using tuned riggers surely they would have done it with the Laferrari at Portimao?
No doubt they send their mechanics along to make sure that the car is set up optimally for the track but I've never seen a Ferrari performing faster in a straight line than it would be expected to do. Even 458 that set the eyebrow raising Bedford laptime recorded a lower peak speed down the main straight than the pre upgrade MP4 12c and comfortably lost the drag race.
There's no doubt customer 570s have significantly more power than the official 562bhp figure. Mclaren wanted it to outperform the 911 Turbo S and the R8 but didn't want to ps off 650s owners too much. From what I've seen a 570s will push a 650s or a 488 up to 150mph.
No doubt they send their mechanics along to make sure that the car is set up optimally for the track but I've never seen a Ferrari performing faster in a straight line than it would be expected to do. Even 458 that set the eyebrow raising Bedford laptime recorded a lower peak speed down the main straight than the pre upgrade MP4 12c and comfortably lost the drag race.
There's no doubt customer 570s have significantly more power than the official 562bhp figure. Mclaren wanted it to outperform the 911 Turbo S and the R8 but didn't want to p
s off 650s owners too much. From what I've seen a 570s will push a 650s or a 488 up to 150mph.
Don't dis the 650, it'll end in tears I tell you!RamboLambo said:
Sorry mate, that's a computer game and doesn't count.isaldiri said:
Well the press 458 absolutely smoked the 12c. I suggest you read the Car/evo comparison tests in summer 2011 at Bedford west and Rockingham. Amusingly enough that same 458 in the same test with 'standard' supersports also clocked a better laptime thana gt2rs with cup tyres........ mclaren most assuredly have not forgotten that.
That reminds me of an hilarious incident at Dunsfold (Top Gear test track).Shortly after the first 458s were being delivered to UK customers, there was a Dunsfold test drive, the results of which were going to be broadcast.
The Ferrari team arrived with their 458 in a transporter, unloaded it and parked it on the service road adjoining the track.
At that point one of the first UK owners showed up to hang out and watch the test. He came in his new 458.
As he arrived, he pulled his true production car up next to the parked factory car. His car sat there for only a minute or so, but it was just long enough for anyone to be able to see the differences in ride height and cambers between the production car and the factory car.
The reason that the customer car sat there for only a minute or so was that one of the Ferrari guys quickly realised that the differences between the two cars would be obvious to the onlookers. He hurried over to the owner and pleaded with him to move his car some distance away from the factory car.
SELON said:
RamboLambo said:
Sorry mate, that's a computer game and doesn't count.I mean here's a video on the same computer game showing a 570s dusting off a F1!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47LwqglGQLo
Here's a slightly less ludicrous comparison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enUi2bxA2Cc
Gassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff