McLaren Conundrum
Discussion
After some advice please Gentlemen.
Been looking at McLaren's for ages, driven a 12c and 650s on track a few years ago and loved them both, but they were out of my league financially.
I've had an i8 for the last couple of years and fancy a change, so recently test drove a 570GT and want one - it's a daily driver and thought the 570s might be a bit too raw to use every day, although I haven't driven one.
Got a quote against a new GT from London at around £170k and then started looking at used ones for circa £150k and was set to push the button on a blade silver one, but saw a 650 spider and it's turned my head.
After a fair amount of research, I am still no closer to making a decision - head says get the newer car, heart says get the super series spider.
I haven't got the funds for a 570 spider, so that's out of the question.
Would the 650 spider be suitable to drive every day?
Been looking at McLaren's for ages, driven a 12c and 650s on track a few years ago and loved them both, but they were out of my league financially.
I've had an i8 for the last couple of years and fancy a change, so recently test drove a 570GT and want one - it's a daily driver and thought the 570s might be a bit too raw to use every day, although I haven't driven one.
Got a quote against a new GT from London at around £170k and then started looking at used ones for circa £150k and was set to push the button on a blade silver one, but saw a 650 spider and it's turned my head.
After a fair amount of research, I am still no closer to making a decision - head says get the newer car, heart says get the super series spider.
I haven't got the funds for a 570 spider, so that's out of the question.
Would the 650 spider be suitable to drive every day?
The answer is really in how you will use the car..........the Sport Series was designed to be more usable than the Super Series..........the GT was designed to be even more usable witht he extra luggage space, rear hatch, sound deadening interior etc.
Obviously one is a spider too......how often will you drop the roof?
If it's an everyday cross country motorway car, then the GT probably is the one. If the car is to be used less often then the 650s could be the one?
Obviously one is a spider too......how often will you drop the roof?
If it's an everyday cross country motorway car, then the GT probably is the one. If the car is to be used less often then the 650s could be the one?
McLaren range & options in a nutshell....
12C - Still very, very fast, active aero, adaptive damping, most luggage space (ditto 650S), 30mpg on m-way, proper turbo boost, very comfortable, air brake, single wiper. Best interior (as 650S) Im a big fan of the large central tachometer over the digital one in 570 onwards. Smallest McLaren model.
650S - as above but 5-10% better in gearbox speed and torque, ceramic brakes standard. However as 12C's get updated during services they are catching up and the 30% increase in price from a 12C to a 650S can mostly be attributed to the fact they are newer. 12C 'v' 650S looks are personal.
540C - Not driven, as below but a bit less I would imagine.
570S - Faster & smoother gearbox than both of above, less 'fizz' at the top end but better traction at the low end. Better car than 12C / 650S at low speeds but not as much push at the top end of the rev range. Standard suspension, no active aero. 2 (TWO) wipers!!! (That bugged me). Feels more go-karty at lower speeds. Smaller boot than 12C /650S, yet actually bigger than a 12C! 35MPG and can out drag a 675LT on a runway (too much aero on LT)
570GT - Like a 570S but with slower steering, slower gearbox, comfier (less sporty)suspension. All 5-10% less but noticeable. If you drove both back to back you would want the 570S unless you really prefer the looks of the 570GT and its still a great car. However we swapped our 12C for a GT for a weekend and we couldn't fit our luggage in the GT when we took it out of our 12C, the glass hatch looks lovely but can't fit much in. It is very planted in the rain, must be the softer settings.
675 LT - Not driven but almost 3 x 12C's in price. Track focused and 650S probably a better road car but that is a matter of opinion. Peerless on track.
720S - Stupid fast, like being strapped on to a nuclear warhead! However after driving I think the 12C / 650S feel just as good in different ways and I prefer the interiors of the early cars.
There are no bad cars, they are all great. It all comes down to your budget and what you prefer the look of. At the moment a 12C is a bargain and if you want something rare get a 650S coupe as there are only around 35 RHD cars in the UK! Splitting a 12C & 650S has to be done on spec / mileage / condition. They are too close. Splitting super and sports series is down to looks and type of driving. 570S great at lower speeds, super series better at high speed and for drama.
Coupe 'v' spider. All variants. No loss of rigidity, obvious spider has wind in the hair and you can hear more engine / exhaust (esp. with rear window down) but IMHO coupe looks so much better, but that's personal and looks aren't everything.
For all McLarens allow £3,500pa for warranty (a 100% must) and £1,500 for servicing. Other than that insurance is not bad, fuel consumption is stupidly good and all will get you low 30's on a 70mph m-way run if you want. 12C & 650S will minimise depreciation over a sports series in the short term. The general public love them all and they think all of the are P1's regardless of what it is anyway.
There is a buying guide available here:-
https://www.mclarenowners.org.uk/
Good luck choosing, they are all just amazing cars and all can be used everyday and many, in fact most owners do. Lots around with 30-40K+ miles on clock at 3-6 years old. You wont find many Ferraris being used like that. All are definitely usable everyday but super series have most luggage capacity, don't be fooled by the GT's hatch and the sports series are better if you are going slow more than fast (in a good way)
12C - Still very, very fast, active aero, adaptive damping, most luggage space (ditto 650S), 30mpg on m-way, proper turbo boost, very comfortable, air brake, single wiper. Best interior (as 650S) Im a big fan of the large central tachometer over the digital one in 570 onwards. Smallest McLaren model.
650S - as above but 5-10% better in gearbox speed and torque, ceramic brakes standard. However as 12C's get updated during services they are catching up and the 30% increase in price from a 12C to a 650S can mostly be attributed to the fact they are newer. 12C 'v' 650S looks are personal.
540C - Not driven, as below but a bit less I would imagine.
570S - Faster & smoother gearbox than both of above, less 'fizz' at the top end but better traction at the low end. Better car than 12C / 650S at low speeds but not as much push at the top end of the rev range. Standard suspension, no active aero. 2 (TWO) wipers!!! (That bugged me). Feels more go-karty at lower speeds. Smaller boot than 12C /650S, yet actually bigger than a 12C! 35MPG and can out drag a 675LT on a runway (too much aero on LT)
570GT - Like a 570S but with slower steering, slower gearbox, comfier (less sporty)suspension. All 5-10% less but noticeable. If you drove both back to back you would want the 570S unless you really prefer the looks of the 570GT and its still a great car. However we swapped our 12C for a GT for a weekend and we couldn't fit our luggage in the GT when we took it out of our 12C, the glass hatch looks lovely but can't fit much in. It is very planted in the rain, must be the softer settings.
675 LT - Not driven but almost 3 x 12C's in price. Track focused and 650S probably a better road car but that is a matter of opinion. Peerless on track.
720S - Stupid fast, like being strapped on to a nuclear warhead! However after driving I think the 12C / 650S feel just as good in different ways and I prefer the interiors of the early cars.
There are no bad cars, they are all great. It all comes down to your budget and what you prefer the look of. At the moment a 12C is a bargain and if you want something rare get a 650S coupe as there are only around 35 RHD cars in the UK! Splitting a 12C & 650S has to be done on spec / mileage / condition. They are too close. Splitting super and sports series is down to looks and type of driving. 570S great at lower speeds, super series better at high speed and for drama.
Coupe 'v' spider. All variants. No loss of rigidity, obvious spider has wind in the hair and you can hear more engine / exhaust (esp. with rear window down) but IMHO coupe looks so much better, but that's personal and looks aren't everything.
For all McLarens allow £3,500pa for warranty (a 100% must) and £1,500 for servicing. Other than that insurance is not bad, fuel consumption is stupidly good and all will get you low 30's on a 70mph m-way run if you want. 12C & 650S will minimise depreciation over a sports series in the short term. The general public love them all and they think all of the are P1's regardless of what it is anyway.
There is a buying guide available here:-
https://www.mclarenowners.org.uk/
Good luck choosing, they are all just amazing cars and all can be used everyday and many, in fact most owners do. Lots around with 30-40K+ miles on clock at 3-6 years old. You wont find many Ferraris being used like that. All are definitely usable everyday but super series have most luggage capacity, don't be fooled by the GT's hatch and the sports series are better if you are going slow more than fast (in a good way)
Edited by Bispal on Monday 18th December 08:39
650S spider is such an all round accomplished car I don't know why anyone would consider anything else.
I actually find my 650S more practical and a better daily than my 570S but prefer to keep it back for weekends and special occasions.
Super series is superior to the sports series hence the designation and pricing from McLaren
Spider v coupe is a no brainer for me with the no compromise carbon tub - spider all the way 3 cars in 1 effectively
For the life of me I do not understand why they are so cheap versus there competition. ? Blows a Ferrari 458 spider away with exception of maybe the N/a V8 sound but that's not saying the McLaren with a sports exhaust doesn't sound loud and good but its a different tone
I actually find my 650S more practical and a better daily than my 570S but prefer to keep it back for weekends and special occasions.
Super series is superior to the sports series hence the designation and pricing from McLaren
Spider v coupe is a no brainer for me with the no compromise carbon tub - spider all the way 3 cars in 1 effectively
For the life of me I do not understand why they are so cheap versus there competition. ? Blows a Ferrari 458 spider away with exception of maybe the N/a V8 sound but that's not saying the McLaren with a sports exhaust doesn't sound loud and good but its a different tone
RamboLambo said:
For the life of me I do not understand why they are so cheap versus there competition.
its pretty simple:Bispal said:
For all McLarens allow £3,500pa for warranty (a 100% must) and £1,500 for servicing.
McLaren need to sort this out, a warranty shouldn't be a "100% must" on a car of this caliber and annual servicing needs to be less that a £1000pa... you know, like the segment market leader... these two things IMO are whats causing the depreciation, the older these cars get he less desirable they will become i fear. I certainly wouldn't buy a second hand one.Nano2nd said:
McLaren need to sort this out, a warranty shouldn't be a "100% must" on a car of this caliber and annual servicing needs to be less that a £1000pa... you know, like the segment market leader... these two things IMO are whats causing the depreciation, the older these cars get he less desirable they will become i fear. I certainly wouldn't buy a second hand one.
Are annual large services on Ferrari's and Lambo's less than £1k at main dealers?Are their warranties much less than McLaren's?
I genuinely don't know the answers to the above but I can't see them being too much difference?
Sarnie said:
Are annual large services on Ferrari's and Lambo's less than £1k at main dealers?
Are their warranties much less than McLaren's?
I genuinely don't know the answers to the above but I can't see them being too much difference?
To be honest, even at Indy's I'm not sure they are.Are their warranties much less than McLaren's?
I genuinely don't know the answers to the above but I can't see them being too much difference?
When I had a 348 I was quoted ~£750 for a minor service from my nearest indy.
With the 360, I've used 2 different indy's over the last 4 years. Both want ~£1k for a minor, and about 50% more than that for a major.
I've been told that there are Indy's out there that charge less, and next Spring I intend to try one (QV). But the idea that most Ferrari's are being serviced anywhere for significantly under £1k surprises me.
Sarnie said:
Are annual large services on Ferrari's and Lambo's less than £1k at main dealers?
Are their warranties much less than McLaren's?
I genuinely don't know the answers to the above but I can't see them being too much difference?
annuals about £650, large service is getting on for £1500 but its mileage no time based, in almost 4 years ownership i only had annuals.Are their warranties much less than McLaren's?
I genuinely don't know the answers to the above but I can't see them being too much difference?
the warranty is probably the same, however the key thing is it isn't a "100% must", certainly IME
But, is the Ferrari servicing cheaper on average as very few if any Ferraris do anything like enough miles annually to get to mileage based servicing - due to the perception that it's financial suicide to put highish miles on them come resale time. It seems to me that on average Mclarens, certainly in the UK, do more miles than Ferraris - though I stress this is a view, not based on any concrete evidence - but if it's true, you can't have it both ways, if a car is doing more miles, it stands to reason that it will cost more to service and maintain.
davek_964 said:
To be honest, even at Indy's I'm not sure they are.
When I had a 348 I was quoted ~£750 for a minor service from my nearest indy.
With the 360, I've used 2 different indy's over the last 4 years. Both want ~£1k for a minor, and about 50% more than that for a major.
I've been told that there are Indy's out there that charge less, and next Spring I intend to try one (QV). But the idea that most Ferrari's are being serviced anywhere for significantly under £1k surprises me.
Me too..........When I had a 348 I was quoted ~£750 for a minor service from my nearest indy.
With the 360, I've used 2 different indy's over the last 4 years. Both want ~£1k for a minor, and about 50% more than that for a major.
I've been told that there are Indy's out there that charge less, and next Spring I intend to try one (QV). But the idea that most Ferrari's are being serviced anywhere for significantly under £1k surprises me.
Nano2nd said:
annuals about £650, large service is getting on for £1500 but its mileage no time based, in almost 4 years ownership i only had annuals.
the warranty is probably the same, however the key thing is it isn't a "100% must", certainly IME
The McLaren warranty isn't a 100% must........it's just that if it breaks, the costs of repair can be eye watering.......again, no different to Ferrari or Lamborghini if the 'box drops out or sets on fire.................the warranty is probably the same, however the key thing is it isn't a "100% must", certainly IME
Sarnie said:
Me too..........
i've had 3 services and JCT600 all of them less that £700, the last 2 included them coming from Leeds to Leicester in a covered trailer to pickup and return the car.even if you do factor in the £1500 services ever 18,000 miles that still wouldn't make it anywhere near £1500pa on average, whilst i agree there are a number of McLarens on higher mileages,they aren't doing 20k pa
Sarnie said:
The McLaren warranty isn't a 100% must........it's just that if it breaks, the costs of repair can be eye watering.......again, no different to Ferrari or Lamborghini if the 'box drops out or sets on fire.................
the owner above says its a must? and I've seen it mentioned a few times on PH, it would appear that the issue is more that they do break and often, i don't believe 458's suffer from anywhere near the same faults as 12c's... there's a guy on the FB supercar for sale group with a 12c advertised claiming its had £70k of prep work! £70k! There were some well documented minor issues on early MP4 12C's but this reliability thing has be blown out of proportion via the internet and is not the concern some try to make it out to be ( scaremongering by competitor make owners ).
I've just had my 3rd service carried out by the McLaren dealer and it was £900, and the previous two at McLaren dealers were £800 1st service and £1100 2nd service making a grand total of £2,800 which included oil changes in all 3 and wiper blades and pollen filter, air con recharge etc..
On the whole I think that is fair and reasonable and no different from previous Ferrari and Lamborghini bills
I've just had my 3rd service carried out by the McLaren dealer and it was £900, and the previous two at McLaren dealers were £800 1st service and £1100 2nd service making a grand total of £2,800 which included oil changes in all 3 and wiper blades and pollen filter, air con recharge etc..
On the whole I think that is fair and reasonable and no different from previous Ferrari and Lamborghini bills
McLarens are Supercars and like all other supercars including, Ferrari's & Lamborghini's they are not cheap to run BUT a used 12C / 650S will depreciate far less than a new Boxster so in the long run should be cheaper overall. The warranty is cast iron and any issue is sorted with very few quibbles. . If you run a super car without a warranty then good luck, they are bespoke, tuned exotics. If you want a quick car with low running costs buy a Golf R....
My 12C has cost me nothing other than the £4k pa as I buy my warranty every 2 years and get a £1,000 discount and last service was £1k but I would allow £1.5k. So £4k per year is possible. My Ferrari cost £3.5K to service this year and even my old MX5 had £2k spent on it and my Elise £2k as well. In the big scheme of things £4k pa for a supercar is diddly squat, if you can't accept that then a supercar is not for you.
My 12C has cost me nothing other than the £4k pa as I buy my warranty every 2 years and get a £1,000 discount and last service was £1k but I would allow £1.5k. So £4k per year is possible. My Ferrari cost £3.5K to service this year and even my old MX5 had £2k spent on it and my Elise £2k as well. In the big scheme of things £4k pa for a supercar is diddly squat, if you can't accept that then a supercar is not for you.
Edited by Bispal on Tuesday 19th December 11:45
Hi Bispal,Thank you for the in depth response earlier in the thread regarding pretty much all of the contemporary Mclarens. I'm starting to think about two options, either a 650s Coupe or a 720s coupe (not really interest in the 650 spider and prefer the looks of the coupe, plus as has been stated the rarity of the 650 coupe, may be a benefit in the future) I cannot decide whether the extra performance and newer 720 is worth the extra 80k which I think it's likely to be. On top of that there are a number of 720 launch edition cars for sale which aren't going anywhere at their currently advertised prices - which appear to be a discount from RRP, so I'm wondering if people are ordering their own spec 720s and getting a discount from RRP? Anyone actually know or is it all hearsay. I recognise that I'm likely to take the much bigger hit in terms of depreciation on the 720, but would like to keep the car for some years and therefore think this is probably acedemic - though I guess no one likes to take an intentional bath on these things - thoughts?
Just serviced my 650S. It had a few things that would need doing in a couple of thousand miles time so as I am selling the car I had them done anyway. Extras totalled about £850, total cost including service 1700 quid.
Regards the extended warranties, I used to get them on a Ferrari 6 or 7 years ago, Power warranty if I remember correctly, it was about 4 grand a year then. I don't think McLarens are any more expensive to run than other supercars.
Regards the extended warranties, I used to get them on a Ferrari 6 or 7 years ago, Power warranty if I remember correctly, it was about 4 grand a year then. I don't think McLarens are any more expensive to run than other supercars.
Charlie360 said:
Hi Bispal,Thank you for the in depth response earlier in the thread regarding pretty much all of the contemporary Mclarens. I'm starting to think about two options, either a 650s Coupe or a 720s coupe (not really interest in the 650 spider and prefer the looks of the coupe, plus as has been stated the rarity of the 650 coupe, may be a benefit in the future) I cannot decide whether the extra performance and newer 720 is worth the extra 80k which I think it's likely to be. On top of that there are a number of 720 launch edition cars for sale which aren't going anywhere at their currently advertised prices - which appear to be a discount from RRP, so I'm wondering if people are ordering their own spec 720s and getting a discount from RRP? Anyone actually know or is it all hearsay. I recognise that I'm likely to take the much bigger hit in terms of depreciation on the 720, but would like to keep the car for some years and therefore think this is probably acedemic - though I guess no one likes to take an intentional bath on these things - thoughts?
Hi Charlie, I know several owners selling 720's. The reasons are mostly the same, they ordered a LE spec car while waiting for their 'specced' cars to arrive. They seem to all be arriving at once! Also quite a few owners are selling a few of their cars to have funds ready for their soon to arrive Senna's. I don't know of anyone selling a 720 because they are getting out of McLaren, apart from Tom TGE as he just really wanted a Lambo and needed to scratch his itch. The 650S is awesome and in coupe the bargain of the century given its rarity. That's where my money would go unless you really want the latest and greatest and are happy then get a 720S. No wrong answer.....except 12C is always the right answer, or is that Miata is always the answer???I'd quite like the latest greatest, but know the 720 won't be that for very long, so perhaps the 650 would be a better long term choice, though I can't help but think that in most, but not all, of the previous tests, the 458 generally came out on top of the 650, though not by much, whereas the 720 seems to be THE car currently, which is why I don't really understand why the second hand ones are currently sticking around below list (I know, I know, the economy is stuffed, it's winter etc. etc.) but still there must be enough stupid people out there like me to be thinking about it surely? That said none of them are exactly to my exact spec, so perhaps I'm better ordering new and asking for a discount? And if I got a 650, would I forever be wondering what it would be like to have the 720 - for those that have driven both, is the experience significantly different - I've been in neither?
Edited by Charlie360 on Monday 18th December 20:55
720S is more like a HYPERcar in both performance and looks but the last thing a 650S really needs is more power and speed. "The 650S chews up and spits out a 458" Steve Sutcliffe. The only area I felt a 458 was better was possibly the N/a V8 sound but apart from that the McLaren was far superior to the Ferrari IMHO
Whilst the 720S is undoubtedly a step up over 650S I don't think its worth an extra £80k when I've never got on with the looks. BTW I don't like the look of most hypercars so its not just 720S which after seeing the Senna almost looks beautiful lol.
In 18 months time when a 720S spider comes out the coupe will take a big hit but if you don't intend to sell it you have not realised the £70k loss
Whilst the 720S is undoubtedly a step up over 650S I don't think its worth an extra £80k when I've never got on with the looks. BTW I don't like the look of most hypercars so its not just 720S which after seeing the Senna almost looks beautiful lol.
In 18 months time when a 720S spider comes out the coupe will take a big hit but if you don't intend to sell it you have not realised the £70k loss
Edited by RamboLambo on Monday 18th December 22:00
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