Has Thorney Just Killed The Market for the Summer?
Discussion
I watched the latest Thorney video yesterday where he announced a "world first" one day auction of McLaren cars to be held at Thorney HQ in October.
Basically any private individual or dealer wanting to shift a car can put it in to the auction, TM will carry out an inspection including estimates for the work to fix any issues they find and that report will all be available (including the Google drive of all the inspection pics) to any prospective buyers. The report is paid for by the seller.
Just wondering if that is going to kill the market for the summer? Why take a punt on a car or pay to get it inspected when you can wait and see what turns up in the auction and enjoy the benefit of being able to review a warts and all report on the car before you part with any money? I've been searching for a car for a few months but now tempted to hold off until October. Anyone else thinking the same ?
Basically any private individual or dealer wanting to shift a car can put it in to the auction, TM will carry out an inspection including estimates for the work to fix any issues they find and that report will all be available (including the Google drive of all the inspection pics) to any prospective buyers. The report is paid for by the seller.
Just wondering if that is going to kill the market for the summer? Why take a punt on a car or pay to get it inspected when you can wait and see what turns up in the auction and enjoy the benefit of being able to review a warts and all report on the car before you part with any money? I've been searching for a car for a few months but now tempted to hold off until October. Anyone else thinking the same ?
October is a long way away. What value would you put on missing out on a whole summer of McLaren ownership?
I'd be curious about the terms. Their normal sales you get a service on the car prior to collection, you get a fresh MOT, and 3 months warranty. Plus, because they are acting as the seller you are covered by consumer protection. For all that Thorney charge £6000 including VAT. Most auctions none of that is true, you buy a car on collecting cars or pistonheads you are buying it from the seller with zero comeback or protection, and if it's a McLaren you're probably paying more than £6000 for the priviledge.
This auction has a £750 upfront fee to the seller, plus a 6% fee to Thorney, which may or may not be including VAT, so on a £100k car about 8 grand in fees. If this is acting like most auctions where the auctioneer washes their hands of it and you're making a private sale, I fail to see how that is better to the consumer than their regular sales. Feels like that would be all downside to me if that's the case. On the other hand if they are still offering what they normally do then maybe it's worth a punt, but only if the right car was there.
But if the perfect car came up elsewhere I wouldn't be passing it up just because there is an auction happening in 5 months time.
I'd be curious about the terms. Their normal sales you get a service on the car prior to collection, you get a fresh MOT, and 3 months warranty. Plus, because they are acting as the seller you are covered by consumer protection. For all that Thorney charge £6000 including VAT. Most auctions none of that is true, you buy a car on collecting cars or pistonheads you are buying it from the seller with zero comeback or protection, and if it's a McLaren you're probably paying more than £6000 for the priviledge.
This auction has a £750 upfront fee to the seller, plus a 6% fee to Thorney, which may or may not be including VAT, so on a £100k car about 8 grand in fees. If this is acting like most auctions where the auctioneer washes their hands of it and you're making a private sale, I fail to see how that is better to the consumer than their regular sales. Feels like that would be all downside to me if that's the case. On the other hand if they are still offering what they normally do then maybe it's worth a punt, but only if the right car was there.
But if the perfect car came up elsewhere I wouldn't be passing it up just because there is an auction happening in 5 months time.
Edited by ajm_ph on Tuesday 26th May 16:32
As 48K mentions, they are not completing recommended work with the auction cars as they do with the cars they normally market. They are undertaking their inspection and making that report available online, with photo's, and a quote (estimate?) of the costs to rectify anything found.
Mine has just been serviced with them and inspected, it it very thorough. Question is who is going to buy a car at auction with a long list of work required? Isn't that half the fun of an auction? Have I bought a swan or a lemon... (Not that I am brave enough to try, every auction I've been to (about 5 in 40 years) the car I was interested in pretty quickly went way above my max.
Mine has just been serviced with them and inspected, it it very thorough. Question is who is going to buy a car at auction with a long list of work required? Isn't that half the fun of an auction? Have I bought a swan or a lemon... (Not that I am brave enough to try, every auction I've been to (about 5 in 40 years) the car I was interested in pretty quickly went way above my max.
ex-devonpaul said:
Seems odd, are Thorney running short of work?
They'll get work from doing the inspections and the report, and probably work from the buyers or perhaps even the sellers. I wonder what that will do to their waiting list?
If you watch the video they are oversubscribed with long lead times for rectification work. 50 cars sold as middle man at 6 grand a pop plus being paid for all the work needed to put it on sale is damn good business so far this year! Won't be long before other indies do likewise They'll get work from doing the inspections and the report, and probably work from the buyers or perhaps even the sellers. I wonder what that will do to their waiting list?
48k said:
I watched the latest Thorney video yesterday where he announced a "world first" one day auction of McLaren cars to be held at Thorney HQ in October.
Basically any private individual or dealer wanting to shift a car can put it in to the auction, TM will carry out an inspection including estimates for the work to fix any issues they find and that report will all be available (including the Google drive of all the inspection pics) to any prospective buyers. The report is paid for by the seller.
Just wondering if that is going to kill the market for the summer? Why take a punt on a car or pay to get it inspected when you can wait and see what turns up in the auction and enjoy the benefit of being able to review a warts and all report on the car before you part with any money? I've been searching for a car for a few months but now tempted to hold off until October. Anyone else thinking the same ?
In a word : YesBasically any private individual or dealer wanting to shift a car can put it in to the auction, TM will carry out an inspection including estimates for the work to fix any issues they find and that report will all be available (including the Google drive of all the inspection pics) to any prospective buyers. The report is paid for by the seller.
Just wondering if that is going to kill the market for the summer? Why take a punt on a car or pay to get it inspected when you can wait and see what turns up in the auction and enjoy the benefit of being able to review a warts and all report on the car before you part with any money? I've been searching for a car for a few months but now tempted to hold off until October. Anyone else thinking the same ?
I would add though, Thorney have a hard earned reputation as a respected McLaren independent. That is the reason their sales volumes are so strong. That high level of sales does not bring a corresponding level of complaints. I know why because they look after my car. They are not short of work, try getting a Service booking.
Secondly, the market is dire. Interest rates are way up from this and last decade norms. Taxes are up, uncertainty is also a factor. I see the auction as a way of clearing out the SOR cars that failed to sell, before they sit over the winter. Sellers getting fed up waiting. The way I understood the video is they will offer the stock - but the big USP is, it will have a Thorney inspection which reduces the risk. Thorney will tell it as it is, that is a huge factor and should improve values. I will be interested to see the auction model in action.
ajm_ph said:
October is a long way away. What value would you put on missing out on a whole summer of McLaren ownership?
I'd be curious about the terms. Their normal sales you get a service on the car prior to collection, you get a fresh MOT, and 3 months warranty. Plus, because they are acting as the seller you are covered by consumer protection. For all that Thorney charge £6000 including VAT. Most auctions none of that is true, you buy a car on collecting cars or pistonheads you are buying it from the seller with zero comeback or protection, and if it's a McLaren you're probably paying more than £6000 for the priviledge.
This auction has a £750 upfront fee to the seller, plus a 6% fee to Thorney, which may or may not be including VAT, so on a £100k car about 8 grand in fees. If this is acting like most auctions where the auctioneer washes their hands of it and you're making a private sale, I fail to see how that is better to the consumer than their regular sales. Feels like that would be all downside to me if that's the case. On the other hand if they are still offering what they normally do then maybe it's worth a punt, but only if the right car was there.
But if the perfect car came up elsewhere I wouldn't be passing it up just because there is an auction happening in 5 months time.
I think you’ve nailed it there, buy a car with defects and no warranty plus pay about 6% for the privilege. I'd be curious about the terms. Their normal sales you get a service on the car prior to collection, you get a fresh MOT, and 3 months warranty. Plus, because they are acting as the seller you are covered by consumer protection. For all that Thorney charge £6000 including VAT. Most auctions none of that is true, you buy a car on collecting cars or pistonheads you are buying it from the seller with zero comeback or protection, and if it's a McLaren you're probably paying more than £6000 for the priviledge.
This auction has a £750 upfront fee to the seller, plus a 6% fee to Thorney, which may or may not be including VAT, so on a £100k car about 8 grand in fees. If this is acting like most auctions where the auctioneer washes their hands of it and you're making a private sale, I fail to see how that is better to the consumer than their regular sales. Feels like that would be all downside to me if that's the case. On the other hand if they are still offering what they normally do then maybe it's worth a punt, but only if the right car was there.
But if the perfect car came up elsewhere I wouldn't be passing it up just because there is an auction happening in 5 months time.
Edited by ajm_ph on Tuesday 26th May 16:32
It’s fine if an owner is thinking they’ll get bid retail less 6% fees, less cost of repairs, less something to offset the risk of buying a car from auction with no dealer warranty…
I’d wager the survey will be full of caveat terminology.
It's a great idea, auctioning cars with a detailed report on what work they may need. More information should lead to fairer prices, rather than auction prices being depressed as everyone assumes the worst of the cars going through the ring. And I'd find it much easier to buy a car that needs work if it comes with an estimate to carry it out.
Having said that, if I saw a car I liked for sale now, I'd be trying to get it checked and do a deal, not hanging on five months for an event when you don't know how many or what quality of cars will be for sale, and how hot the competition may be for them. So I don't think serious buyers will be put off looking to buy a car today. But nearer the time, yeah I can see it being popular.
I don't think this is a way to drum up business, McLaren indies are in pretty strong demand as the 'bulge' of cars sold in the 2010s age out of the main dealer network. If anything it's the opposite, it gives Thorney a chance to inspect each car once in their own time, rather potentially being asked to check the same car multiple times on an ASAP timeline.
It seems the 650S, 675LT and 600LT have all risen in price lately so the market's quite strong, another reason I don't see buyers hanging on for October. If the 'Thorney Auction' publishes full details it could shine a very informative light on actual levels of demand and transaction prices, considering each car's condition.
If I could wait and wanted a Spyder for the long term, buying at the end of the year would certainly result in a lower price expectation.
However, put it the other way around. Buying an inspected car with a likely cost of repair (if required -- and some expensive paint may not be so important) -- and the time over winter to get the work done with the various good indies -- is possibly a very good place to be ?
But are buyers so restrained and planned ?? The choice of a lot of cars is likely to depress prices although it may attract a big audience ... so maybe good but not for the impulsive ??
However, put it the other way around. Buying an inspected car with a likely cost of repair (if required -- and some expensive paint may not be so important) -- and the time over winter to get the work done with the various good indies -- is possibly a very good place to be ?
But are buyers so restrained and planned ?? The choice of a lot of cars is likely to depress prices although it may attract a big audience ... so maybe good but not for the impulsive ??
As a buyer I kind of see the benefit as it gives a full indication of what needs doing to a car before purchase and you can potentially bid accordingly (I would assume pending sellers reserve).
It's not a lot different to finding a car yourself (either private or dealer) and getting your own full inspection done and negotiating accordingly, though this negates any need to book an inspection, potentially multiple if issues, and does some of the legwork for you.
6% buyers fee is also a lot of money towards any potential repairs (80k car thats nearly 5k in fees alone which need factoring into a bid price and the cost of works)
I have a feeling the disconnect will come between bidders bargain expectations versus seller reality of what bidders will pay.
It's not a lot different to finding a car yourself (either private or dealer) and getting your own full inspection done and negotiating accordingly, though this negates any need to book an inspection, potentially multiple if issues, and does some of the legwork for you.
6% buyers fee is also a lot of money towards any potential repairs (80k car thats nearly 5k in fees alone which need factoring into a bid price and the cost of works)
I have a feeling the disconnect will come between bidders bargain expectations versus seller reality of what bidders will pay.
Edited by TTB on Wednesday 27th May 10:27
They aren't going to kill the market they are a very small part of the overall market. Why would you want to put a McLaren into an auction? Obviously because its broken so the inspection service is better than a regular auction but still a big risk. You are still ultimately buying a car with no warranty. Also October is winding down season so sellers should brace themselves I would imagine it would mainly be dealers looking for bargain stock to sit on over winter. Entry fees for the auction are likely to be high too due to the inspection. Just whack in on collecting cars with no prying eyes!
It's quite a smart move for Thorney as they'll pick up some of the necessary work over winter rather than owners being disgruntled now trying to get a slot for rectification work. Most mclarens go into slumber over winter so come October November he'll pick up some work no doubt from new owners.
ex-devonpaul said:
Seems odd, are Thorney running short of work?
They'll get work from doing the inspections and the report, and probably work from the buyers or perhaps even the sellers. I wonder what that will do to their waiting list?
I was at Thorney yesterday and there doesn’t seem to be a shortage of work. Workshop was full, a good number of McLarens in the yard, and someone there looking at one of the cars. They’ve sold quite a few cars recently and some sold off market too, before even being listed.They'll get work from doing the inspections and the report, and probably work from the buyers or perhaps even the sellers. I wonder what that will do to their waiting list?
It’s an interesting move.
As he has pointed out, you can easily have £20k worth of work on a second hand McLaren to put it right and arranging an inspection is very difficult on a trade sale or a private sale.
I bought mine from main dealer for this reason and the warranty and prep work done by them has been extremely worthwhile.
October is not long to wait for such a potentially risky purchase out of the main dealer network
As he has pointed out, you can easily have £20k worth of work on a second hand McLaren to put it right and arranging an inspection is very difficult on a trade sale or a private sale.
I bought mine from main dealer for this reason and the warranty and prep work done by them has been extremely worthwhile.
October is not long to wait for such a potentially risky purchase out of the main dealer network
Comment that cars going through auctions are "broken" - what a load of rubbish. Plenty of high end cars get auctioned successfully.
675s will sell well as theyre tough to get hold of.
I'd be worried if I'd paid the recent false premium for a 600LT.
I like the idea. Dealer spread (not just Macs) has got a bit silly over the past few years.
675s will sell well as theyre tough to get hold of.
I'd be worried if I'd paid the recent false premium for a 600LT.
I like the idea. Dealer spread (not just Macs) has got a bit silly over the past few years.
I don’t think it will kill the market. Probably wants to shift some neglected cars not prepared to provide warranty on / take the risk / unable to sell. Nowadays, seems to have flipped to being more of a McLaren car trader, rather than the brand image of McLaren servicing. Will possibly open up opportunities for the likes of V-engineering and Jack Webb to service and repair the neglected cars, ready for sale. There are some decent cars on other auction sites, but I suspect the vast majority offered through the new auction site will have a higher degree of uncertainty (dumping ground for cars with suspect history). Auction is just a way of avoiding statutory legal obligations as a car trader. There’s always going to be some dog cars out there, whatever the marque. Caveat emptor etc.
Will be interesting to see what effect it will have on the Thorney brand image. Quite a ballsy move. Good luck to them.
Will be interesting to see what effect it will have on the Thorney brand image. Quite a ballsy move. Good luck to them.
It probably was always going to go this way as they cant keep up with demand and it gets cars sold and when cars sell work is generated.
They dont have the time to prep 20/30 cars before an auction nor would a seller wont that is it might not sell.
I think its a logical step and I will be going to it in October on the day
They dont have the time to prep 20/30 cars before an auction nor would a seller wont that is it might not sell.
I think its a logical step and I will be going to it in October on the day
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