BMW i3 - Ecotricity 22KW chargers..

[hoganscrogan]

... Ecotricity say we will be able to use their Medium 22KW AC Chargers >

'Here's a list of the electric vehicles on sale in the UK that can use our AC 22kW charge points: BMW i3 - etc.'

However, will they charge at the full 22KW or just 7.4KW?

This electric car business it very complicated!

[RossP]

I've contacted BMW and asked the same question. They were going to get back to me in 48 hours...

[tr7v8]

22kW would need a 32A 3 phase circuit which generally wouldn't be available at home. 7.3kW is a single phase 32A circuit which is more generally available.

[hoganscrogan]

tr7v8 said:

22kW would need a 32A 3 phase circuit which generally wouldn't be available at home. 7.3kW is a single phase 32A circuit which is more generally available.

Yeah that's right thanks, and very few homes have a three phase supply.

What I'm interested in is the existing Ecotricity network of 22KW chargers that are out there and whether we can use them to their full 22KW potential or does the i3 only make use of 7.3KW

This would make a big difference to charging times!

[RossP]

As well as asking BMW (no response), I also asked Ecotricity - just got this response back:

Dear Ross,

Thank you for your email. The speed that the car is charged at depends on the car itself. I understand that if you have a 32 amp cable, this will charge it faster than a 16 amp cable.

If you'd like more information about the different types of cables and compatibility for the different kinds of cars, please may I refer you to http://www.chargepointservices.co.uk/Home

With regards to fast chargers for the new BMW I3 EV’s, I can confirm that we are currently awaiting approval to begin installing new combo chargers which will allow the BMW, VW and Audi EV’s to be able to rapid charge.

Once these have been given the go ahead we will update this on our website as soon as possible. So please keep checking for regular updates.



Your question/comment:
Good morning, Are you able to tell me what rate your 22kW chargepoints will charge an i3? Also do you know when your first DC chargepoints are going in that will charge an i3 in 30 mins? Many thanks, Ross.

[hoganscrogan]

I also got this reply from Ecotricity, they are very on it-

• *****************

According to the details set out in the BMW i3 manual, the vehicle will only charge based upon the configuration of the onboard AC charger, which is 7.4kW.

Therefore, they can use our 22kW AC chargers and charge at a rate of about 3-4 hours for a 0-80% charge – according to the 7.4kW onboard configuration..."

Hope that helps clarify?

Cheers
Paul Ecotricity

• *****************

So that sucks a little as there is a decent 22KW network out there already that we cannot use to the full. From your email Ross it at least it sounds like they are proactivity looking to upgrade their network to CCS Combo.

Edited by hoganscrogan on Thursday 16th January 14:46

[RossP]

That's a better answer than the one I got and makes total sense. We need the DC rapid charger rollout! (sorry Andy)

[hoganscrogan]

No that's great Ross the two emails fill in all the holes in our knowledge!

[spitty709]

RossP said:

As well as asking BMW (no response), I also asked Ecotricity - just got this response back:

Dear Ross,

Thank you for your email. The speed that the car is charged at depends on the car itself. I understand that if you have a 32 amp cable, this will charge it faster than a 16 amp cable.

If you'd like more information about the different types of cables and compatibility for the different kinds of cars, please may I refer you to http://www.chargepointservices.co.uk/Home

With regards to fast chargers for the new BMW I3 EV’s, I can confirm that we are currently awaiting approval to begin installing new combo chargers which will allow the BMW, VW and Audi EV’s to be able to rapid charge.

Once these have been given the go ahead we will update this on our website as soon as possible. So please keep checking for regular updates.



Your question/comment:
Good morning, Are you able to tell me what rate your 22kW chargepoints will charge an i3? Also do you know when your first DC chargepoints are going in that will charge an i3 in 30 mins? Many thanks, Ross.

Can't find anything on there site regarding a 16amp or 32amp charge cable for an i3 just the one for the leaf and associated vehicles!

[spitty709]

RossP said:

As well as asking BMW (no response), I also asked Ecotricity - just got this response back:

Dear Ross,

Thank you for your email. The speed that the car is charged at depends on the car itself. I understand that if you have a 32 amp cable, this will charge it faster than a 16 amp cable.

If you'd like more information about the different types of cables and compatibility for the different kinds of cars, please may I refer you to http://www.chargepointservices.co.uk/Home

With regards to fast chargers for the new BMW I3 EV’s, I can confirm that we are currently awaiting approval to begin installing new combo chargers which will allow the BMW, VW and Audi EV’s to be able to rapid charge.

Once these have been given the go ahead we will update this on our website as soon as possible. So please keep checking for regular updates.



Your question/comment:
Good morning, Are you able to tell me what rate your 22kW chargepoints will charge an i3? Also do you know when your first DC chargepoints are going in that will charge an i3 in 30 mins? Many thanks, Ross.

Can't find anything on there site regarding a 16amp or 32amp charge cable for an i3 just the one for the leaf and associated vehicles!

[G8YTZ]

Here is a general overview of charging a BMW i3 and EV charging in general.

Batteries provide and require dc (direct current) power for charging. The power provided to your house is ac (alternating current). The on-board charger in the car converts the ac power to dc in order to charge the batteries on the car. Although the ac sub-station in your area provides 3 phase power, most houses have a single phase supply, you tend to find that each house is fed alternately off a different phase as you travel up the street. In most cases you can apply for a three phase supply from your provider (at additional cost).

The BMW i3 has a charger that can convert up to 7kW of power from ac to dc. You need the 32A cable and a compatible charge point in order to charge at the full rate, if you only use the supplied i3 cable you will only charge at 3kW as this is the maximum a BS1363 plug/socket can provide. This i3 on-board charger only supports a single phase connection so it will never draw current from more than one phase at a time or beyond the maximum current of 32 Amps @ 230 volts = 7 kilowatts. If it is connected to a three phase supply it will only draw power from a single phase (just like your house does). Other cars (like the Tesla) have three phase compatible chargers and they can draw ac power at up to 22kW on single or three phase, but the Tesla has a much bigger battery to charge!

High speed dc charging is available as an option on the BMW i3, essentially the charge point contains the charger (ac to dc conversion and software that communicates to the car in order to maintain the correct level of charge rate for the batteries). There are 3 common protocols for dc charging:

1) CCS (Combined Charging System) - This is a new protocol that the i3 and most cars going forward will have. Ecotricity are upgrading all their locations this summer to support CCS but you must specify the dc high speed option on your BMW in order to use this. The Ecotricity CCS points will currently charge at a rate of up to 50kW i.e. about 30 minutes for a full charge on an i3 (i.e. 18.5kWh or 80% the available battery capacity of the total 22.5kWh battery capacity that BMW enable you to access)

2) CHAdeMO (Charging on the Move) - This is an older Japanese standard developed by TEPCO (yes the Fukushima people) and this standard was used by Nissan for the Leaf and a few other manufacturers prior to CCS being agreed. All Ecotricity points that provide dc charging currently support this protocol.

3) Tesla have their own proprietary protocol that currently provides a charge rate of up to 120kW dc and this is not compatible with any other car. Tesla owners can however charge at Ecotricity points using ac 22kW (with the twin charger option specified, otherwise 11kW) or dc CHAdeMO with a special adaptor. No doubt Tesla will provide a future upgrade to CCS at some point.

So in conclusion... Order your i3 with the dc option if you want to charge at high speed at a motorway service station or at an Ikea store.

Best regards,

Justin.

Edited by G8YTZ on Friday 11th April 11:11

Edited by G8YTZ on Friday 11th April 11:25

Edited by G8YTZ on Friday 11th April 11:28

[hoganscrogan]

That's great Justin, really comprehensive.

Just one question , where did you get the info re ecotricty and the summer roll out?

[G8YTZ]

Direct from Ecotricity, on the phone. i wanted to understand which protocols they support at their charge points.

Here is a paste from a general news e-mail that I received from Ecotricity that supports what they told me.

Justin.

Dear Justin

These are exciting times in the world of electric cars.

It seems like all of the major car manufacturers now either have an electric model on offer, or will very shortly. Along with this increased choice, we’re seeing car prices come down, as production ramps up and the driving range of new cars steadily increases – it’s exactly what we hope to see, more cars, with greater range and lower prices.

Things are moving at pace with the Electric Highway too.

It was only around the middle of last year that we began to roll out the fast AC and DC chargers and by the end of the year we had installed these ‘Ecotricity pumps’ (as we like to think of them) in half of all motorway services. In February this year we completed the M4 roll out with an Ecotricity pump on every service station from London to Wales. We’ve also begun to double up now, with two pumps in each location, to cope with the additional demand that is coming.

And we’re adding a third standard to the pumps, known as CCS (Combined Charging System) – as used by BMW (the i3) and VW (the eUp and eGolf) – three new cars launched in the last few months which will be able to use the Electric Highway.

By the end of this year we expect to have installed Ecotricity pumps in every single motorway service station in Britain. That should pretty much enable electric car drivers to drive the length and breadth of our country.

There are parts of the country that the motorways don't get too close to of course, and we’re beginning now to roll out the Electric Highway to strategically important A-roads.

You can keep up to date with our Electric Highway – locations, old and new, on our website map.

We’ve had some teething problems with the technology, but – working closely with Nissan – we’ve identified a design fault as the root cause.

Two weeks from now we’ll begin a short program to replace one of the components in all of our pumps to temporarily improve their reliability, before implementing a major upgrade beginning in June. If you’ve had any problems with our Electric Highway I apologise for any inconvenience, and assure you this problem has had our full attention. I hope you’ll understand that this is new technology and teething problems are perhaps to be expected – the good news is that those teething problems will very soon be behind us.

That’s the update, more cars, more range and more places to top up – good times to drive electric.

Cheers,



Dale Vince MBE
Ecotricity Founder

Edited by G8YTZ on Friday 11th April 11:10

[G8YTZ]

Oh,

I forgot to mention. Chargemaster will install a 32A Home Charge unit for £95 (the 16A version is free) this is funded by a Government scheme until the end of the year so act quickly and see the Chargemaster web site for the on-line application. You don't need to own an Electric car, but if you order an i3 make sure you tell them as they [Chargemaster] will ensure that you get the version with the i3 compatible software update (there is a bug in the BMW on-board charger that requires a work-round until BMW have rolled out a fix).

We have an i3 REX on order, fully specced up and including the dc CCS option (for the wife - if she gets a chance to drive it!) delivery is penned for September though....

When specifying an i3 remember these vehicles are very quiet, I think there may be an added risk of pedestrians being unaware of your approach, at least until the general public become more aware of electric cars, so to mitigate this we have ordered the "Driving Assistance Plus" package which includes the Pedestrian Protection feature. BMW have told me that the dc CCS option cannot be retro-fitted so if you want it make sure you specify this before the committed build date specification change cut-off point.

Next year a Tesla Model S is a strong contender to replace my Mercedes E-Class, I've driven it and it really is a fantastic car.

Justin

Edited by G8YTZ on Friday 11th April 11:17

Edited by G8YTZ on Friday 11th April 11:31

Edited by G8YTZ on Friday 11th April 11:33

[G8YTZ]

Pin layout of the Type 2 charging connector in its various configurations.

Justin.

[hornetrider]

G8YTZ said:

Direct from Ecotricity, on the phone. i wanted to understand which protocols they support at their charge points.

Here is a paste from a general news e-mail that I received from Ecotricity that supports what they told me.

Justin.

Dear Justin

These are exciting times in the world of electric cars.

It seems like all of the major car manufacturers now either have an electric model on offer, or will very shortly. Along with this increased choice, we’re seeing car prices come down, as production ramps up and the driving range of new cars steadily increases – it’s exactly what we hope to see, more cars, with greater range and lower prices.

Things are moving at pace with the Electric Highway too.

It was only around the middle of last year that we began to roll out the fast AC and DC chargers and by the end of the year we had installed these ‘Ecotricity pumps’ (as we like to think of them) in half of all motorway services. In February this year we completed the M4 roll out with an Ecotricity pump on every service station from London to Wales. We’ve also begun to double up now, with two pumps in each location, to cope with the additional demand that is coming.

And we’re adding a third standard to the pumps, known as CCS (Combined Charging System) – as used by BMW (the i3) and VW (the eUp and eGolf) – three new cars launched in the last few months which will be able to use the Electric Highway.

By the end of this year we expect to have installed Ecotricity pumps in every single motorway service station in Britain. That should pretty much enable electric car drivers to drive the length and breadth of our country.

There are parts of the country that the motorways don't get too close to of course, and we’re beginning now to roll out the Electric Highway to strategically important A-roads.

You can keep up to date with our Electric Highway – locations, old and new, on our website map.

We’ve had some teething problems with the technology, but – working closely with Nissan – we’ve identified a design fault as the root cause.

Two weeks from now we’ll begin a short program to replace one of the components in all of our pumps to temporarily improve their reliability, before implementing a major upgrade beginning in June. If you’ve had any problems with our Electric Highway I apologise for any inconvenience, and assure you this problem has had our full attention. I hope you’ll understand that this is new technology and teething problems are perhaps to be expected – the good news is that those teething problems will very soon be behind us.

That’s the update, more cars, more range and more places to top up – good times to drive electric.

Cheers,



Dale Vince MBE
Ecotricity Founder

Edited by G8YTZ on Friday 11th April 11:10

I see Dale was talking out of his hat. As of today there's one Ecotricity CCS in Wales and it's west of Swansea. Garbage.

[JonV8V]

hornetrider said:

I see Dale was talking out of his hat. As of today there's one Ecotricity CCS in Wales and it's west of Swansea. Garbage.

There is one in Bangor too but Wales isn't blessed with charging points I grant you, I wonder if this is partly the joys of the Welsh having certain powers and don't help fund it.