Debunking some expected 'smart' comments

[Greg_D]

Hi Guys,

Like you, i'm expecting some snidey comments from people when i pick the car up. Let's start putting together a list of the usual questions and the answers so we aren't all caught on the hop by smart alec questions.

Q1)but you are just moving the pollution further away, you still need to plug it into the wall, it is no different to a normal car when you take into account the emmissions from the power station.

A1)The national grid as a whole produces 190g of Co2/KWH. an i3 battery is 22kwh so 'produces' 4180g of Co2/charge, @100 miles range (161km) that equates to 25.9g/km of Co2 - so whichever way you cut it, that is effing low... That is without taking into account the transport/infrastructure necessary to move traditional fuels around!!!

Source: http://www.rensmart.com/Information/KWHToCO2Conver...

Let's put together a fact sheet

[JonnyVTEC]

Your CO2 figure is wrong.

Currently its ~450g / kWh.
http://www.ukenergywatch.org/Electricity/Realtime

Dont forget a gallon of petrol needs around 8kWh to refine/distill. Thats the same energy to take a Leaf 30 miles, yet you need to do before you can even burn it to take a typical car the same distance.

[McWigglebum4th]

Greg_D said:

Hi Guys,

Like you, i'm expecting some snidey comments from people when i pick the car up. Let's start putting together a list of the usual questions and the answers so we aren't all caught on the hop by smart alec questions.

Q1)but you are just moving the pollution further away, you still need to plug it into the wall, it is no different to a normal car when you take into account the emmissions from the power station.

A1)The national grid as a whole produces 190g of Co2/KWH. an i3 battery is 22kwh so 'produces' 4180g of Co2/charge, @100 miles range (161km) that equates to 25.9g/km of Co2 - so whichever way you cut it, that is effing low... That is without taking into account the transport/infrastructure necessary to move traditional fuels around!!!

Let's put together a fact sheet

Ah the labour brain washing has worked here

CO2 is one pollutant that comes out the back of a car

you forget nox and sox

A power station burns cleaner then a diesel car and pumps out zero particulate matter into population centers where people live so less black bogies and death.

Also making one gallon of petrol needs enough electricty to propel an electric car about 30 miles and is before you even get it to the petrol station.

Also be aware of magic petrol. magic petrol is the petrol that magically appears in many petrol stations by magic as there is no energy used in actually getting it there. So if people want to use magic petrol then i see no reason that you can't have magic electricty that magically appears in your battery.

[anonymous-user]

some smart alec will have a comment about the environmentally unfriendly production and lifecycle of batteries

[Dave Hedgehog]

its very very easy to debunk all the ecomentalists and beigiests that support hybrids and electric crap boxes

just show them this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIjjdrfAtjA


all eco cars sound ste

[McWigglebum4th]

Dave Hedgehog said:

its very very easy to debunk all the ecomentalists and beigiests that support hybrids and electric crap boxes

just show them this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIjjdrfAtjA


all eco cars sound ste

A fine argument if everyone drove a thundering V8

We don't

I drive a nasty little rattly 4 pot as does everyone at my work

All electric cars sound better then my daily driver as they are silent

[Hugo a Gogo]

I read a review yesterday of the VW E-Up, reckoning it cost about 3€/100km just electricity, not all other costs

which is good, but not amazing, and it costs €27,000

petrol equivalent costs €10k and works out about €7/100 for fuel

insurance is a good bit dearer for the leccy one too

I would love for it to actually make sense to run one, but it just doesn't seem to

(btw my 6 seat Multipla on CNG costs about 7€/100 as well, and I bought it for €2000)

[Dave Hedgehog]

McWigglebum4th said:

A fine argument if everyone drove a thundering V8

We don't

I drive a nasty little rattly 4 pot as does everyone at my work

All electric cars sound better then my daily driver as they are silent

a valid point, i think the PH collective should write to your company and demand V8s for all staff on humanitarian grounds

[Greg_D]

JonnyVTEC said:

Your CO2 figure is wrong.

Currently its ~450g / kWh.
http://www.ukenergywatch.org/Electricity/Realtime

Dont forget a gallon of petrol needs around 8kWh to refine/distill. Thats the same energy to take a Leaf 30 miles, yet you need to do before you can even burn it to take a typical car the same distance.

fair cop, i just went with what i found, your would appear more official, so we'll go with your figures (if they are truly real time, i will be interested to see how it alters at different time of the day

Anyway, my amended figure is 64g of CO2/km

I'd be interested to see a spreadsheet of 'well-wheel' for a typical 100g co2 city car taking into account all the transport, distillation, transport, storage, electricity used etc and compare it to a mine-wheel co2 figure including all transmission losses/battery charging losses etc for an EV

i'm no eco warrior, i'm genuinely curious

[McWigglebum4th]

Dave Hedgehog said:

McWigglebum4th said:

A fine argument if everyone drove a thundering V8

We don't

I drive a nasty little rattly 4 pot as does everyone at my work

All electric cars sound better then my daily driver as they are silent

a valid point, i think the PH collective should write to your company and demand V8s for all staff on humanitarian grounds

Wasn't your last car a pretty drab sounding little 4 pot?

You know the one you fked

[AnotherClarkey]

Dave Hedgehog said:

its very very easy to debunk all the ecomentalists and beigiests that support hybrids and electric crap boxes

just show them this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIjjdrfAtjA


all eco cars sound ste

Would probably still get soundly humped by a Tesla S performance in a traffic light GP, a seven seat family hatch.

[JonnyVTEC]

Problem with the i3 is the rather energy intensive hard to recylce carbon that it uses.

Anyway these are typical forecourt retorts that you wont need if you got the proper BMW i3.

[ORD]

Who gives a flying fk about CO2? Seriously. Unless you dont ever fly away on holiday, your car is nowhere near your biggest contribution to pollution.

[Greg_D]

ORD said:

Who gives a flying fk about CO2?

Some random bellend down the pub who is bound to use it as a club to attach you with - like i said, smartass comments

[rovermorris999]

McWigglebum4th said:

CO2 is one pollutant that comes out the back of a car

CO2 isn't a pollutant even though it is taxed as such. I breathe it every day and does me no harm and my garden would die without it..

[TransverseTight]

A common one is that the Hybrid and EV batteries are worse than petrol for the environment. It became a common myth when the Prius came out. My guess is that a US car company without a hybrid started the rumour to give them time to catch up with the Japs. It started doing the round in the UK after the Daily Mail printed it. But later retracted the story and removed it from their website...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-1604...

However the original article is still here:
http://priuschat.com/threads/is-this-where-the-nic...

Good journalism as usual from the mail. The best examples - claiming that NASA now use the landscape for practicing their lunar rovers, the Prius came out in the last 15 years, long after the lunar landings.

The true story is that the area WAS a wasteland in the 1970's but after sticking scrubbers on their smelters and enforcing strict environmental controls - and new planting, the forest has started to regenerate. Basically a model of what is possible in the most polluted of landscapes.

http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/atlas/themes.aspx...
http://activehistory.ca/2013/06/11360/

All this is irrelevant anyway - the latest cars use Lithium Ion batteries - not nickel metal hydride.

So you score 2 points if this comes up ;-)

[covmutley]

Electricity can be, and increasingly is, from renewable sources.

[ds666]

I know this isn't quite in the thread of environmental debunking but they are already starting to call me "Ernie " as in the Benny Hill song " he drove the fastest milk cart in the west " . (Probably never been heard of by the sub 40's on here ... ) .

[TransverseTight]

I've just added another one in a separate thread... that electric cars are only cheaper to run because of the fuel duty on Petrol / Diesel.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Conclusion: Not true.

[McWigglebum4th]

How about dumb comments?

Or in other words

Where is ludditematt?