Model Y or Mustang Mach E?

[soupdragon1]

Going all in on EV very soon. I recently bought a used Nissan Leaf to experiment, feel, understand the EV driving situation and am quite comfortable going 2 cars EV.

We'll be replacing an SUV with an EV and was considering model 3. Then seen model Y is due...then seen Mustang.

We're going for a straight purchase, no finance, so it's all about list price rather than PCP or PCH deals available. Our budget is £40k. Don't need super long range or high performance, but sub 6 seconds to 60 would be nice. Need a reasonable amount of boot and passenger space.

As far as I'm aware, only really Mustang or Tesla fits my criteria (audi Jag seem to be really expensive with no real news on anything cheaper on the horizon)

I like Volvo and Polestar 2 but they're 50k and no release dates of the cheaper variants - at least I'm not aware.

Anyway. Questions are:

Q1. Anything else I should be considering thats available or soon to be available.

Q2. And which is a better buy - Tesla or Mustang. Just want opinion really, as these things are never absolute.

I like the fact I could be in a Mustang for Christmas, and it could be 2022 before UK sees the base model Y, which leans me towards Mustang.

The Mustang seems to have the edge on uk price, at £40.3k (before govt grant) whereas Tesla is looking like $4k dollar more than a model 3, so probably 46k. Another reason to lean to the Mustang.....

Thoughts?

[anonymous-user]

I think you'll be lucky to get either car by mid 2021, so plenty of time to decide.

[soupdragon1]

Sambucket said:

I think you'll be lucky to get either car by mid 2021, so plenty of time to decide.

Ford are saying Autumn 2020 on their website...is this wrong/misleading?

[anonymous-user]

soupdragon1 said:

Sambucket said:

I think you'll be lucky to get either car by mid 2021, so plenty of time to decide.

Ford are saying Autumn 2020 on their website...is this wrong/misleading?

I saw late 2020 for all models with the near £60k version being built first.

I looked at the Mustang but I’m not prepared to pay over the £40k list ‘luxury car’ tax band for what will just be a runabout so ruled it out. Also for £40270 you get the base car, in black with no extras.

At that level the e Niro is faster, better specified and quite possibly better built. It’s also under the magic £40k. Hard to understand why Ford pitched it there, that extra £270 becomes £1870.

[soupdragon1]

Sambucket said:

Do you have any inkling what production volume is planned for UK in 2020?

I'm guessing but, my money is the release will be staggered, similar to eniro etc. Production volume will be very low in 2020. Just a token few 100 cars, partly for PR will make it to the UK probably Q4. And then if all goes to plan, expect higher volumes at a later date. Maybe summer 2021?

ETA: Found this on the website

"We’re only making a limited volume available for Europe for 2020 delivery."

So it seems unlikely base model will be widely for sale by xmas. Very common I'm afraid for brands to deliver tiny volumes of cars (at a loss), which they want to be seen to be selling, to tick boxes and release date targets.

Does seem like the Y beats it on pretty much every objective spec. So service / subjective factors will be significant.

Worth test driving a 3. I find it much roomier than expected. If impatient and you don't need a hatch the 425L of boot space might be worth considering.

Edited by Sambucket on Sunday 2nd February 16:04

Haven't ruled the model 3 out at all. I really like it. My only niggle is where I live - NI. We don't have a Tesla dealership so I need to research how to get it serviced and what happens if the car breaks down. Plenty of Tesla's around though, so I guess people are buying them in NI anyway. It was looking at model 3 that prompted me to look at model Y - and then subsequently, look at others.

[soupdragon1]

REALIST123 said:

soupdragon1 said:

Sambucket said:

I think you'll be lucky to get either car by mid 2021, so plenty of time to decide.

Ford are saying Autumn 2020 on their website...is this wrong/misleading?

I saw late 2020 for all models with the near £60k version being built first.

I looked at the Mustang but I’m not prepared to pay over the £40k list ‘luxury car’ tax band for what will just be a runabout so ruled it out. Also for £40270 you get the base car, in black with no extras.

At that level the e Niro is faster, better specified and quite possibly better built. It’s also under the magic £40k. Hard to understand why Ford pitched it there, that extra £270 becomes £1870.

Are you sure the e niro is faster? I read the base Mustang will be around 5.5 seconds to 60mph.

In terms of the wrong side of £40k - some are of the belief that Ford are fully aware of the luxury car tax, and want people to jump to the more expensive versions, so they've put that price their to see if people bite on the more expensive cars. I was thinking a pre-order of the £40k car in the hope that they'll knock it down to £39,990 or similar. Obviously, this is just heresay so can't really hang my hat on that.

Just to confirm - post govt grant, the model 3 is £38.5k - do you still pay luxury car tax on the base model 3 considering its £42k before the grant?

[anonymous-user]

The website says 8 sec for base model?

[soupdragon1]

Sambucket said:

The website says 8 sec for base model?

Yeah, website just shows a < less than figure.

I got the 5.5 from here...but whether this is reputable or not...

https://insideevs.com/reviews/382537/tesla-model-y...

[anonymous-user]

soupdragon1 said:

REALIST123 said:

soupdragon1 said:

Sambucket said:

I think you'll be lucky to get either car by mid 2021, so plenty of time to decide.

Ford are saying Autumn 2020 on their website...is this wrong/misleading?

I saw late 2020 for all models with the near £60k version being built first.

I looked at the Mustang but I’m not prepared to pay over the £40k list ‘luxury car’ tax band for what will just be a runabout so ruled it out. Also for £40270 you get the base car, in black with no extras.

At that level the e Niro is faster, better specified and quite possibly better built. It’s also under the magic £40k. Hard to understand why Ford pitched it there, that extra £270 becomes £1870.

Are you sure the e niro is faster? I read the base Mustang will be around 5.5 seconds to 60mph.

In terms of the wrong side of £40k - some are of the belief that Ford are fully aware of the luxury car tax, and want people to jump to the more expensive versions, so they've put that price their to see if people bite on the more expensive cars. I was thinking a pre-order of the £40k car in the hope that they'll knock it down to £39,990 or similar. Obviously, this is just heresay so can't really hang my hat on that.

Just to confirm - post govt grant, the model 3 is £38.5k - do you still pay luxury car tax on the base model 3 considering its £42k before the grant?

Doesn’t seem to be much in it either way, not that I’m bothered really. Ford say <8s, Kia say 7.5s, though tests indicate around 7s so probably similar. Close enough to make no difference I accept.

As for your marketing theory, I’m not sure why anyone would pay at least another £6/7k for a car because a cheaper model might just incur the tax. Maybe but it seems a sure way to lose sales, cost being one of the most important barriers to ownership presently.

And, yes, the luxury car tax is based on list, including extras before discounts and grants etc.

I believe all Teslas are subject to it, but stand to be corrected.

[matttbutcher]

Quite confused by the points raised in this post about the luxury car road tax. All of the information I have read across multiple UK websites and GOV.uk indicate that electric cars pay no road tax for first and subsequent years regardless of the £40,000 luxury car cut off.

"Since April 2020 zero emission EVs (BEVs) are zero-rated standard tax for both the first year and all subsequent years. That means you don’t pay any road tax on a pure electric vehicle."

...and...

"A premium rate applies to vehicles worth £40,000 or more and will need to be paid in addition to any applicable VED charges for the first 5 years the vehicle is on the road (from the second time the vehicle is taxed). You do not have to pay this rate if you have a zero-emission vehicle (BEV)."

Surely this would mean it wouldn't matter if the Mach-E list price is > £40k, as with Teslas, or any Electric car for that matter.

What am I missing?

EDIT: I think I have just noticed that this original thread is dated "Feb 2020" instead of "Feb 2021". Before these new announcements then I assume? Further confirmation would still be great

[Dimebars]

From what I gather.....

VED is £0

"Luxury" tax is paid at £325 because list is £40k+

So instead of £475, you pay £325

[FlossyThePig]

Dimebars said:

From what I gather.....
VED is £0
"Luxury" tax is paid at £325 because list is £40k+
So instead of £475, you pay £325

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables said:

Vehicles with a list price of more than £40,000
You have to pay an extra £325 a year if you have a car or motorhome with a ‘list price’ (the published price before any discounts) of more than £40,000.
You do not have to pay this if you have a zero emission vehicle.

[TheRainMaker]

Review in auto express this week.

[BishBosh]

OP...Or even the Ioniq 5?
https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/ioniq5

[JonChalk]

I think the base-model Mach-E is pretty good value for money, and I much prefer its looks to the anodyne looking Model Y.

I've said on other threads, had my budget been £10k greater, I'd have ordered a Mach-E rather than an ID.3, I think.

[hyphen]

TheRainMaker said:

Review in auto express this week.

Just been reading that. They choose the mustang
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-group-tests/3544...

[off_again]

Not sure about RHD Mach E models, but deliveries of the LHD US market models have been delayed and a limited number recalled to correct some production issues (what? A responsible approach to producing a new car? Fix things before or just after delivery? What a novel concept). Some early pre-order customers are being offered discounts, extended free charging and other options while they wait. Production ramping up, but even the local dealers to me are not expecting demonstrators until May.

Ford will ramp up quickly to take advantage of the demand, but it does look they have been delayed by a few months from what they originally planned. Would be good to find out what the delivery dates are for the UK.

[J1990]

off_again said:

Not sure about RHD Mach E models, but deliveries of the LHD US market models have been delayed and a limited number recalled to correct some production issues (what? A responsible approach to producing a new car? Fix things before or just after delivery? What a novel concept). Some early pre-order customers are being offered discounts, extended free charging and other options while they wait. Production ramping up, but even the local dealers to me are not expecting demonstrators until May.

Ford will ramp up quickly to take advantage of the demand, but it does look they have been delayed by a few months from what they originally planned. Would be good to find out what the delivery dates are for the UK.

I imagine they've felt like they have very little choice but to get ahead of that and fix everything pre-release, given that their Kuga PHEV deliveries completely stopped and they had to ask all Kuga PHEV customers to stop all charging until a fix could be rolled out for their battery issues.
If they'd managed to screw up both their latest PHEV and electric car then that could have such a detrimental impact on their sales as doubt sets in with potential customers.

[dmsims]

Mustang review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pb11j34kPY