Contemplating a BEV next, which?
Discussion
First off, I don’t want this to descend into a discussion on financing vs leasing vs cash buying, I’m either going to be using a personal lease or PCP for this.
With that out of the way, I guess I should get some basic details of my usage profile and wants/needs from the car out in the open:
1) Daily commute of 20 miles each way (actually usually 15-16 miles but if I end up dodging traffic then 20 is the upper limit). 5 days a week, usually outside of rush hour, consisting of around 7 miles of 30/40mph roads, and 10 miles of NSL dual-carriageway. The occasional 120 mile round trip will be made if travelling to other offices.
2) Charging at work is free (I do not yet know what kWh these chargers are, I can find out, but likely irrelevant due to mileages driven)
3) I will continue to own a petrol vehicle for weekend/fun use, the wife still has a decent sized vehicle for longer-distance family duties.
4) I’d like similar spec/kit/tech to what I currently have in my 2016 Audi S3 Saloon (with virtual cockpit), performance however doesn’t need to be in the ballpark, that’s what the weekend car is for going forward.
5) Monthly budget of £400 maximum, preferably lower.
So with the above in mind, which car(s) should I be looking at? Is there anything round the corner I should be waiting for?
i3S is currently on my radar, but thoughts and opinions are of course welcome, not just on car choice but BEV observations in general that might be relevant/of interest.
I’d likely get a charger installed at home also for those “just in case” moments. I’d rather not use 3-pin if I can help it.
Thanks in advance.
With that out of the way, I guess I should get some basic details of my usage profile and wants/needs from the car out in the open:
1) Daily commute of 20 miles each way (actually usually 15-16 miles but if I end up dodging traffic then 20 is the upper limit). 5 days a week, usually outside of rush hour, consisting of around 7 miles of 30/40mph roads, and 10 miles of NSL dual-carriageway. The occasional 120 mile round trip will be made if travelling to other offices.
2) Charging at work is free (I do not yet know what kWh these chargers are, I can find out, but likely irrelevant due to mileages driven)
3) I will continue to own a petrol vehicle for weekend/fun use, the wife still has a decent sized vehicle for longer-distance family duties.
4) I’d like similar spec/kit/tech to what I currently have in my 2016 Audi S3 Saloon (with virtual cockpit), performance however doesn’t need to be in the ballpark, that’s what the weekend car is for going forward.
5) Monthly budget of £400 maximum, preferably lower.
So with the above in mind, which car(s) should I be looking at? Is there anything round the corner I should be waiting for?
i3S is currently on my radar, but thoughts and opinions are of course welcome, not just on car choice but BEV observations in general that might be relevant/of interest.
I’d likely get a charger installed at home also for those “just in case” moments. I’d rather not use 3-pin if I can help it.
Thanks in advance.
Will watch this keenly. Due to the positive BIK treatment of BEVs this I'd an option I'm looking at through my company. Not sure I would make the jump yet if it was out of my own pocket (without the productive tax incentives) but it's definitely something I'm going to keep an eye on.
We got an i3 for our 60 miles per day school-run. Best decision ever. Great car, nicely built with just the right amount of tech for me (i.e. actually useful rather than overbearing). We refer to it as the 'flying saucer' given the alternative styling and the high pitched motor whistel as it accelerates away. We have only ever charged at home. A combination of old wiring and electrical consumers in the house meant we needed a current sensing/limiting charger which was a bit more expensive than normal but still under £1000 with government incentives applied. Even with this cold weather we get 140miles to a charge which is more than enough for us, and around 160 in the summer.
The only negative really is the noise. BEV cars are noisy! Once up to speed the lack of (heavy) sound deadening becomes apparrent. Around town you would never notice but at motorway speeds my rather more 'agricultural' Hilux is much quieter.
The only negative really is the noise. BEV cars are noisy! Once up to speed the lack of (heavy) sound deadening becomes apparrent. Around town you would never notice but at motorway speeds my rather more 'agricultural' Hilux is much quieter.
Fairly similar situation myself, looking but have another year or so before I make a decision so hopefully more choice is coming/worth waiting for.
Looking now though (budget aside) I actually don't mind the new Leaf in some lights/colours, I think the ID.3 when it turns up will be a bit of a winner for most. The Tesla Model 3 I have good days and bad days with it. The I-pace I think I could actually live with and thats the sort of spec/level/place I want to sit for a daily but then again is it worth it. Really like the Skoda vision concept.
Lease deals aren't too bad on the i-Pace and the reason I say lease is because I am not convinced with BEV at the moment being settled as a technology/development and I am sure there is a big leap coming where I will regret if I made a greater commitment. So if I were to lease one for a year or two get used to it with low mile granny charging I can reassess where I am in about 3/4 years time.
Looking now though (budget aside) I actually don't mind the new Leaf in some lights/colours, I think the ID.3 when it turns up will be a bit of a winner for most. The Tesla Model 3 I have good days and bad days with it. The I-pace I think I could actually live with and thats the sort of spec/level/place I want to sit for a daily but then again is it worth it. Really like the Skoda vision concept.
Lease deals aren't too bad on the i-Pace and the reason I say lease is because I am not convinced with BEV at the moment being settled as a technology/development and I am sure there is a big leap coming where I will regret if I made a greater commitment. So if I were to lease one for a year or two get used to it with low mile granny charging I can reassess where I am in about 3/4 years time.
Pretty much any EV will do what you want from the point of view of the drivetrain so it really comes down to personal preference and requirements in other areas. To me the i3 looks very expensive for what it offers (compared to, say, the Hyundai Kona) but if you like the "futuristic" thing in cars, and are willing to pay for it, I can see the appeal.
As above, at the prices being mooted I think the ID3 could be enormously compelling.
As above, at the prices being mooted I think the ID3 could be enormously compelling.
Your £400/month - is that including any deposit? Are you factoring in the fuel savings over the term of the PCP as that could easily be £100/month? What about service costs, tyres etc? What about the residuals, EVs tend to have good residuals and so you may want to pay the final payment and sell it on at a "profit". In other words, you need to look at the total cost of running a BEV vs an equivalent ICE car like your S3.
Assuming you are looking at new - decent ranged BEVs start at around £35k and most of them have long waiting lists. I would say at present you would be looking at:
Kia eNiro
Hyundai Kona Electric
BMW i3
Tesla Model 3 SR+
There are lots of others and many more coming.
Assuming you are looking at new - decent ranged BEVs start at around £35k and most of them have long waiting lists. I would say at present you would be looking at:
Kia eNiro
Hyundai Kona Electric
BMW i3
Tesla Model 3 SR+
There are lots of others and many more coming.
Fastlane said:
Your £400/month - is that including any deposit?
Deposit is up in the air as to how much I’d lay down, it all depends on the GFV (for PCP) I don’t want to end up in a situation where I’ve got nothing in the vehicle at the end of the term. For reference, I’m currently about £2,000 up on my outstanding balance vs trade-in value on my S3, and with my previous A4, I had over £3k to carry over as “deposit” for the S3. With that in mind I’d probably look to put down between £2 and £4k on a PCP.For a lease then I’d probably look to 3 or 6 months up front unless that’s a daft idea?
I’m not taking into account the fuel savings as I’m looking at this from a reduction in overall monthly outgoings rather than stay similar to what I’m currently paying. With the i3s I’m actually looking at more for insurance but obviously less for tax and fuel which is where my monthly savings will come from.
My company truck goes back in Jan, bearing in mind it already March at the weekend I'm already looking at replacement options. My situation is a little like yours, 50 miles a day commute, weekend pottering but have a family car for longer journeys, I'll also charge from home.
I've been looking at all sorts of EV's.
Tesla is the obvious choice but I don't need the range or cost. Renault Zoe, great reviews and an option but the car I'm most excited about is the Honda E, looks 21st century, huge tech, and the turning circle is astonishing. I have a meeting with Honda a week on Friday. I'll place an order in late summer, depending on delivery times but will be looking at the Ford Mustang, the new VW but I really have to keep the monthlies in check, it will be just a commuter car.
I've been looking at all sorts of EV's.
Tesla is the obvious choice but I don't need the range or cost. Renault Zoe, great reviews and an option but the car I'm most excited about is the Honda E, looks 21st century, huge tech, and the turning circle is astonishing. I have a meeting with Honda a week on Friday. I'll place an order in late summer, depending on delivery times but will be looking at the Ford Mustang, the new VW but I really have to keep the monthlies in check, it will be just a commuter car.
A Leaf will do everything you need, and there are good lease deals to be had e.g. https://www.willowleasing.com/car-leasing/nissan/l...
I’m biased but I think the Zoe would be perfect. Small on the outside but big on the inside. More space than the last gen 1 series for example. We did a family holiday to Centre Parcs in ours a few years ago!
The new model has a slightly more powerful engine, so the 0-30 dash is pretty quick. You would easily be able to keep up with traffic.
Range is not an issue. We get about 140/150 in the winter and 185 ish in the summer. The new one however has a better range so you should see near 200 in the summer.
In terms of equipment, if you get the GT Line with the winter pack you get everything you would ever need - beepers, reverse camera, speed limiter and cruise, CarPlay and AA, wireless phone charger, LED headlights, heated seats and steering wheel, auto lights and wipers etc. I got a quote the other day for £2,150 deposit, £350 p/m, including metallic paint. 4 yr PCP 8k miles a year.
My only criticism of the Zoe which hasn’t been addressed by the new model is that the driving position is quite high and you can’t lower the seat. And a lack of lumbar support. Other than that it is a brilliant car and IMO great value for money.
Edited to say, and the home charger is installed for free, unlike some other brands.
The new model has a slightly more powerful engine, so the 0-30 dash is pretty quick. You would easily be able to keep up with traffic.
Range is not an issue. We get about 140/150 in the winter and 185 ish in the summer. The new one however has a better range so you should see near 200 in the summer.
In terms of equipment, if you get the GT Line with the winter pack you get everything you would ever need - beepers, reverse camera, speed limiter and cruise, CarPlay and AA, wireless phone charger, LED headlights, heated seats and steering wheel, auto lights and wipers etc. I got a quote the other day for £2,150 deposit, £350 p/m, including metallic paint. 4 yr PCP 8k miles a year.
My only criticism of the Zoe which hasn’t been addressed by the new model is that the driving position is quite high and you can’t lower the seat. And a lack of lumbar support. Other than that it is a brilliant car and IMO great value for money.
Edited to say, and the home charger is installed for free, unlike some other brands.
Edited by Roma101 on Thursday 27th February 22:56
I’m taking all the suggestions on-board, I’ll arrange a drive with each early next month to see what is and isn’t going to be on the shortlist. I’m not holding out much hope for the Frenchies as every French car I’ve owned (including one from new has been a regrettable mistake).
Insurance seems a bit... ridiculous at the moment. Comparison sites seem to put an i3S at around double the premium of my S3. Is there any particular brokers, or specialist EV insurers I should be looking at?
Insurance seems a bit... ridiculous at the moment. Comparison sites seem to put an i3S at around double the premium of my S3. Is there any particular brokers, or specialist EV insurers I should be looking at?
We’ve got an i3s and a Tesla Model 3 performance
The i3 is great, but do drive one before you buy one as the ride is very challenging on bumpy back roads, it’s like a pogo stick and is unsettled easily. Still fun to drive though and will stay with a Focus ST up to 70mph :-)
If you can stretch to a Tesla it’s worth the extra, it’s better in pretty much every department imo
The i3 is great, but do drive one before you buy one as the ride is very challenging on bumpy back roads, it’s like a pogo stick and is unsettled easily. Still fun to drive though and will stay with a Focus ST up to 70mph :-)
If you can stretch to a Tesla it’s worth the extra, it’s better in pretty much every department imo
Roma101 said:
My only criticism of the Zoe which hasn’t been addressed by the new model is that the driving position is quite high and you can’t lower the seat. And a lack of lumbar support. Other than that it is a brilliant car and IMO great value for money.
You can't ignore that until now the Zoe has only had AC fast charging. These are quickly disappearing from rapid charging locations in the UK. I appreciate that OP isn't planning to do long distances but I think this will be the first step for many.Edited by Roma101 on Thursday 27th February 22:56
I would say the new Zoe with the optional CCS port is a very good car.
If you are considering the Zoe then there is the MG ZS EV as well.
For higher spec how about a Honda e? You might have to wait a little while to get one but it's the highest tech EV on the market, the dashboard is unparalleled. Reviews say that the ride is very good and it's quiet and refined and comfortable. The only down sides are all irrelevant to you, e.g. small boot and 120 mile range.
For higher spec how about a Honda e? You might have to wait a little while to get one but it's the highest tech EV on the market, the dashboard is unparalleled. Reviews say that the ride is very good and it's quiet and refined and comfortable. The only down sides are all irrelevant to you, e.g. small boot and 120 mile range.
Evanivitch said:
Roma101 said:
My only criticism of the Zoe which hasn’t been addressed by the new model is that the driving position is quite high and you can’t lower the seat. And a lack of lumbar support. Other than that it is a brilliant car and IMO great value for money.
You can't ignore that until now the Zoe has only had AC fast charging. These are quickly disappearing from rapid charging locations in the UK. I appreciate that OP isn't planning to do long distances but I think this will be the first step for many.Edited by Roma101 on Thursday 27th February 22:56
I would say the new Zoe with the optional CCS port is a very good car.
paradigital said:
I’m taking all the suggestions on-board, I’ll arrange a drive with each early next month to see what is and isn’t going to be on the shortlist. I’m not holding out much hope for the Frenchies as every French car I’ve owned (including one from new has been a regrettable mistake).
Insurance seems a bit... ridiculous at the moment. Comparison sites seem to put an i3S at around double the premium of my S3. Is there any particular brokers, or specialist EV insurers I should be looking at?
Which French cars have you had and how long ago?Insurance seems a bit... ridiculous at the moment. Comparison sites seem to put an i3S at around double the premium of my S3. Is there any particular brokers, or specialist EV insurers I should be looking at?
We have had (new) French cars on and off since about 2000 and overall they have been amongst the most reliable of our cars - more so than Fords and BMWs and (unsurprisingly!) Alfas.
We are on our second Zoe and I cannot think of any material issue we have had. The satnav played up once but that was because we hadn't done a system update. Other than that, they have been 100% reliable. Yes, they are not German level build quality, but they have always worked. I would not worry about this at all if/when considering a Zoe, especially if you are only keeping it for a few years.
Insurance for our current Zoe is about £350. No points for me or the wife although the wife did have a no-fault incident on her policy from early last year.
Servicing is about £120 a year. Which is scandalous, to be fair, as it only involves a multi point check and the replacement of two filters. If you took it to an indi, it would be less probably.
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