How Tesla caught European car makers flatfooted:
Discussion
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/business/tesla-...
Am not an EV evangelist and do not own one, but this is an interesting view of Tesla's surprising progress in Europe.
Am not an EV evangelist and do not own one, but this is an interesting view of Tesla's surprising progress in Europe.
Ares said:
Accurate description.
I'd argue Tesla has been the greatest disrupter to the automotive sector for decades, maybe ever. Not bad for a business that doesn't consider itself to be a car manufacturer....
And they're not even at full stride yet. I'd argue Tesla has been the greatest disrupter to the automotive sector for decades, maybe ever. Not bad for a business that doesn't consider itself to be a car manufacturer....
Shares are available at a good discount right now.
RDMcG said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/business/tesla-...
Am not an EV evangelist and do not own one, but this is an interesting view of Tesla's surprising progress in Europe.
I'd suggest that it's an article telling Americans (individuals, businesses and politicians) what they want to hear.Am not an EV evangelist and do not own one, but this is an interesting view of Tesla's surprising progress in Europe.
That’s funny! Are they really suggesting the Model 3 is taking sales away from things like 3 series and C class? It’s a completely different type of car. Just because it has higher sales for one month isn’t likely to get anyone worried. Until they get European build quality, which they won’t, I can’t see anyone being particularly worried. Their use as a stick to poke the big boys in to action is a useful one, but once they have woken them up I can see Tesla will have had their day.
ThunderSpook said:
That’s funny! Are they really suggesting the Model 3 is taking sales away from things like 3 series and C class? It’s a completely different type of car. Just because it has higher sales for one month isn’t likely to get anyone worried. Until they get European build quality, which they won’t, I can’t see anyone being particularly worried. Their use as a stick to poke the big boys in to action is a useful one, but once they have woken them up I can see Tesla will have had their day.
Completely different type of car? A mid sized, 5 seat, 4 door saloon with a premium badge?As someone who's run numerous cars from BMW, Mercedes and Audi over the past 10 years and now has a Model 3 I can confirm the build quality isn't up there with the Germans, but it also isn't far enough away for most people to care. Assuming the 0% BIK for company car drivers who pick EV's comes in next month as expected who's going to choose a 3-Series, A4 or C-Class over a Model 3 when it's going to cost them hundreds in extra tax each month to do so?
BMW have the i4 almost ready to go but it's going to be very expensive and there's no sign of Mercedes or Audi having a competing EV ready for a good while yet.
Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 10th March 16:26
ThunderSpook said:
That’s funny! Are they really suggesting the Model 3 is taking sales away from things like 3 series and C class? It’s a completely different type of car. Just because it has higher sales for one month isn’t likely to get anyone worried. Until they get European build quality, which they won’t, I can’t see anyone being particularly worried. Their use as a stick to poke the big boys in to action is a useful one, but once they have woken them up I can see Tesla will have had their day.
I know a lot of Tesla owners, 15/20, maybe more. Every single one replaced a premium German car with their Tesla, whether S, X or 3.ThunderSpook said:
That’s funny! Are they really suggesting the Model 3 is taking sales away from things like 3 series and C class? It’s a completely different type of car. Just because it has higher sales for one month isn’t likely to get anyone worried. Until they get European build quality, which they won’t, I can’t see anyone being particularly worried. Their use as a stick to poke the big boys in to action is a useful one, but once they have woken them up I can see Tesla will have had their day.
I'd say its very similar coming from a 4 door C63 AMG Saloon and more recently, a BMW F80 4 door M3 Saloon.I'd take the Tesla every time and with the new track mode V2 software (which was installed for free while I slept last night without visiting a Stealer), smokey burnouts and sideways fun are no problem now. The way you can adjust things from front to rear wheel drive and traction options is just another feather in the cap for Tesla which leaves the big boys behind again.
stabilio said:
ThunderSpook said:
That’s funny! Are they really suggesting the Model 3 is taking sales away from things like 3 series and C class? It’s a completely different type of car. Just because it has higher sales for one month isn’t likely to get anyone worried. Until they get European build quality, which they won’t, I can’t see anyone being particularly worried. Their use as a stick to poke the big boys in to action is a useful one, but once they have woken them up I can see Tesla will have had their day.
I'd say its very similar coming from a 4 door C63 AMG Saloon and more recently, a BMW F80 4 door M3 Saloon.I'd take the Tesla every time and with the new track mode V2 software (which was installed for free while I slept last night without visiting a Stealer), smokey burnouts and sideways fun are no problem now. The way you can adjust things from front to rear wheel drive and traction options is just another feather in the cap for Tesla which leaves the big boys behind again.
Once the model Y rolls out(any day now), I can see them eating a large chunk of the crossover market.
saw an article about the e-tron which insinuated it wasn't as good as they could have made it as they don't effectively want to take market share from their own ICE sales! too much money invested in the power trains/ servicing network, and they don't know whether to stick or twist. it'll take them ages to catch up to where tesla are now, meanwhile tesla will improve/innovate. interesting times ahead in the auto industry.
ThunderSpook said:
That’s funny! Are they really suggesting the Model 3 is taking sales away from things like 3 series and C class?
delusional.As for the article, is anyone surprised? Eu car makers should have woken up in 2012 when the model S launched, still sleeping in 2017 when the model 3 was revealed.
2018 Tesla had real trouble ramping up mass production, still at this point, a eye blink ago in the car market, Eu car makers were sleeping at the wheel. Hoping tesla failed, because they had no answer.
2021-22 with both the 3 and the Y in Europe in volume will murder the cash cow segments for these companies
SWoll said:
BMW have the i4 almost ready to go but it's going to be very expensive and there's no sign of Mercedes or Audi having a competing EV ready for a good while yet.
i4 is supposed to come out 2021 if its on time. I doubt it will be , the specs look good but the car looks bad and aimed at the china market Mercedes has the EQS but not masses is known about it, but I expect it 2021/2
Audi? Etron GT which is a taycan clone will be expensive. etron fastback. not sure what else.
IMO they will all struggle for production volume because they are not efficient and they are limited in battery supply. They need 30% more battery per car than tesla does. Their dealers dont want to sell them either.
Sam.M said:
Every one they sell means one less customers worth of servicing revenue.
This is something I’m unsure how the traditional automakers will overcome without copying Tesla and making EV sales manufacturer direct to consumer.
It is also their running software upgrades and fueling infrastructure....This is something I’m unsure how the traditional automakers will overcome without copying Tesla and making EV sales manufacturer direct to consumer.
Uncle boshy said:
Part of the reason for taking sales is down to BIK savings on company cars, which most of the comparable German cars are in the uk.
As a company car driver, your less worried about longevity, and will accept a few compromises if you can save yourself a few hundred quid a month.
It will also get people to shift across to EV who wouldn't usually have considered it due to range concerns etc. A lot of them will realise they were worrying about nothing and will prefer it I'm sure.As a company car driver, your less worried about longevity, and will accept a few compromises if you can save yourself a few hundred quid a month.
What a load of nonsense.
As the article points out Tesla sold 100k cars in Europe compared to VW selling 4.6 million. Then it goes on about Nokia, a company that made cheap devices which got replaced every couple of years, as if that has some relevance to cars costing 1000x as much.
Tesla's real genius was to become the Apple of the automotive world, with an army of loyal fans ready to drop to their knees and felate Elon Musk over every tweet. Even when he talks complete b
ks like "we will have a fully self driving car by 2017, give us your $5000 now!" they don't seem phased by it.
As the article points out Tesla sold 100k cars in Europe compared to VW selling 4.6 million. Then it goes on about Nokia, a company that made cheap devices which got replaced every couple of years, as if that has some relevance to cars costing 1000x as much.
Tesla's real genius was to become the Apple of the automotive world, with an army of loyal fans ready to drop to their knees and felate Elon Musk over every tweet. Even when he talks complete b
ks like "we will have a fully self driving car by 2017, give us your $5000 now!" they don't seem phased by it.aestetix1 said:
What a load of nonsense.
As the article points out Tesla sold 100k cars in Europe compared to VW selling 4.6 million. Then it goes on about Nokia, a company that made cheap devices which got replaced every couple of years, as if that has some relevance to cars costing 1000x as much.
Tesla's real genius was to become the Apple of the automotive world, with an army of loyal fans ready to drop to their knees and felate Elon Musk over every tweet. Even when he talks complete bks like "we will have a fully self driving car by 2017, give us your $5000 now!" they don't seem phased by it.
I applaud you for titling your post "What a load of nonsense" not everybody has that level of self awareness.As the article points out Tesla sold 100k cars in Europe compared to VW selling 4.6 million. Then it goes on about Nokia, a company that made cheap devices which got replaced every couple of years, as if that has some relevance to cars costing 1000x as much.
Tesla's real genius was to become the Apple of the automotive world, with an army of loyal fans ready to drop to their knees and felate Elon Musk over every tweet. Even when he talks complete b
ks like "we will have a fully self driving car by 2017, give us your $5000 now!" they don't seem phased by it.aestetix1 said:
What a load of nonsense.
As the article points out Tesla sold 100k cars in Europe compared to VW selling 4.6 million. Then it goes on about Nokia, a company that made cheap devices which got replaced every couple of years, as if that has some relevance to cars costing 1000x as much.
Tesla's real genius was to become the Apple of the automotive world, with an army of loyal fans ready to drop to their knees and felate Elon Musk over every tweet. Even when he talks complete bks like "we will have a fully self driving car by 2017, give us your $5000 now!" they don't seem phased by it.
its how disrupter's work, nobody thought andriod and apple would destroy the almighty nokia and blackberry but they did. So far Tesla's matching an S curve for a sector disrupter, its one of the reasons the share price is 100x what the company is actually worth As the article points out Tesla sold 100k cars in Europe compared to VW selling 4.6 million. Then it goes on about Nokia, a company that made cheap devices which got replaced every couple of years, as if that has some relevance to cars costing 1000x as much.
Tesla's real genius was to become the Apple of the automotive world, with an army of loyal fans ready to drop to their knees and felate Elon Musk over every tweet. Even when he talks complete b
ks like "we will have a fully self driving car by 2017, give us your $5000 now!" they don't seem phased by it.obviously scaling up takes a lot longer in the auto industry than the mobile industry, but it also takes a lot longer for the auto industry to respond
VWs response to Tesla are currently being stock piled because they can not get the software to work
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