Europe switching to EVs pretty rapidly
Discussion
"June’s plugin share at 8.2% share (4.4% fully electric vehicles/BEVs), pulling the 2020 plugin share to 7.9% (4.3% for BEVs alone). The 7.9% market share more than doubles the 3.6% result of 2019, and gets mighty close to the disruptive 10% mark."
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/07/29/record-ev-sal...
With a substantial number of new EV models coming out plus the CO2 fines Eu is nailed on to be the EV hotbed for the next few years. Sucks for the rest of the world but should push up production numbers and result in lower costs for us all.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/07/29/record-ev-sal...
With a substantial number of new EV models coming out plus the CO2 fines Eu is nailed on to be the EV hotbed for the next few years. Sucks for the rest of the world but should push up production numbers and result in lower costs for us all.
blueacid said:
I'm assuming the Zoe is a hot seller in Europe, I've barely seen any here in the UK - certainly far fewer than I have Tesla Model 3's.. where are they all hiding?!
You've probably seen more than you realise, they're just so nondescript it's easy to miss them, especially in white.But yes, very popular in France funnily enough.
SWoll said:
blueacid said:
I'm assuming the Zoe is a hot seller in Europe, I've barely seen any here in the UK - certainly far fewer than I have Tesla Model 3's.. where are they all hiding?!
You've probably seen more than you realise, they're just so nondescript it's easy to miss them, especially in white.But yes, very popular in France funnily enough.
The gap isn't as big as it's perceived to be! I think as SWoll says, they're very nondescript and you could mistake it quite easily for a generic Renault hatchback whereas the Tesla M3 is quite distinct.
The other difference also is Zoes will probably pootle about locally in towns etc, whereas I suspect a fair few people with a Model 3 will drive longer distances regularly, so if you're a frequent motorway commuter, you'd be more likely to spot a Model 3 than a Zoe.
blueacid said:
I'm assuming the Zoe is a hot seller in Europe, I've barely seen any here in the UK - certainly far fewer than I have Tesla Model 3's.. where are they all hiding?!
Very few were delivered before the shutdown and they only started being handed over early to mid June onwards. Still probably small numbers compared to Clios and Dusters.stabilio said:
No jag ipace on that list?
Or Mercedes EQC.E-Tron sales are impressive though for such a widely lambasted vehicle, perhaps in part due to a lot of highly subsidised lease deals.
granada203028 said:
Yes and the Leaf not the force it once was...
Old guard of EV's and now starting to look both expensive and not very interesting as a new car purchase.SWoll said:
E-Tron sales are impressive though for such a widely lambasted vehicle, perhaps in part due to a lot of highly subsidised lease deals.
My lease was pretty good value - after fuel savings (at least before lockdown) it was a similar cost to run as my T4 petrol V90.I've been really impressed with the E-Tron so far. The range isn't great obviously, but for most people's daily driving habits, it would be more than enough.
RobDickinson said:
Its range and efficiency and weight are pretty horrific but most of the time that doesnt matter at all. And its not like the roads are free of other 2 ton up suv's
I like mine a lot more than I expected to. It's comfortable, refined, a useful size for families and covers its costs. Range, weight and efficiency aren't concerns at all. It's costing 1/5th the fuel cost of my M5 and that's (1) driving with no consideration for economy and (2) paying full whack for electricity as I can't get a smart meter. I've exceeded its range twice so far in 2500 miles and in one of those cases I could have avoided doing so by driving more economically or destination charging.I've mentioned this before, but the problem is going to arise when more and more ev's are there.
I especially foresee this when the really big EV's are going to appear, electric pickups for example. When people go driving these 3 ton 5.5m behemoths, taxes on their economy are going to arise one way or another. Our leases will be mostly over by then I guess so it's a worry for a different time.
Still, as mentioned, efficiency of any EV is in a different league compared to ICE's.
I especially foresee this when the really big EV's are going to appear, electric pickups for example. When people go driving these 3 ton 5.5m behemoths, taxes on their economy are going to arise one way or another. Our leases will be mostly over by then I guess so it's a worry for a different time.
Still, as mentioned, efficiency of any EV is in a different league compared to ICE's.
ZesPak said:
I've mentioned this before, but the problem is going to arise when more and more ev's are there.
I especially foresee this when the really big EV's are going to appear, electric pickups for example. When people go driving these 3 ton 5.5m behemoths, taxes on their economy are going to arise one way or another. Our leases will be mostly over by then I guess so it's a worry for a different time.
Still, as mentioned, efficiency of any EV is in a different league compared to ICE's.
I think it won't be long before the government start considering taxing vehicles by weight. It's logical, a heavier vehicle will do more damage to roads and will need more energy to move its mass around compared to a lighter vehicle. Also means they can then use the same taxation regime across both petrol/diesel and EV.I especially foresee this when the really big EV's are going to appear, electric pickups for example. When people go driving these 3 ton 5.5m behemoths, taxes on their economy are going to arise one way or another. Our leases will be mostly over by then I guess so it's a worry for a different time.
Still, as mentioned, efficiency of any EV is in a different league compared to ICE's.
Either that or by that point EV adoption will be so widespread it's the norm to have a separate car charger at home and perhaps the government will introduce an 'electric duty' on electricity used for car charging?
TheInsanity1234 said:
...
Either that or by that point EV adoption will be so widespread it's the norm to have a separate car charger at home and perhaps the government will introduce an 'electric duty' on electricity used for car charging?
I thought about that and that's nearly impossible.Either that or by that point EV adoption will be so widespread it's the norm to have a separate car charger at home and perhaps the government will introduce an 'electric duty' on electricity used for car charging?
I do a couple of hours of charging a week at my parent's house.
I can also plug in both the Twizy and the Tesla in just about every electrical outlet...
Oh, and if need be I will see to it that my Tesla charger takes from my solar.
There's too many ways to avoid tax like that.
Weight is an interesting one, but not good either, that means that a Polestar 2 will be taxed heavier (pun intended) than an S63 or a Range Rover Sport.
Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 4th August 13:11
TheInsanity1234 said:
I think it won't be long before the government start considering taxing vehicles by weight. It's logical, a heavier vehicle will do more damage to roads and will need more energy to move its mass around compared to a lighter vehicle.
I could see VED switching to weight once ICE is banned, with road charging essentially replacing fuel duty. SWoll said:
blueacid said:
I'm assuming the Zoe is a hot seller in Europe, I've barely seen any here in the UK - certainly far fewer than I have Tesla Model 3's.. where are they all hiding?!
You've probably seen more than you realise, they're just so nondescript it's easy to miss them, especially in white.But yes, very popular in France funnily enough.
I can see VED being tied to charging - either at home or on a roadside one. The car knows how much energy it's taken in and likewise how many miles it's done. In these days of cars filled with more computers than the space shuttle and all dialing home over the internet - it's not hard to picture as part of the road legalisation of a vehicle in the UK to have software installed that reports on specific metrics for tax purposes.
Why would the government want to bear the cost of implementing the front end for this new tax system - when a computerised car can do it internally (Jag keep constant track of where my ipace is (if I want to use their connected services that is). The move to EV and the demonisation of fossil fuels uses social pressure to force cars to be "refreshed", building the infrastructure as we spend.. All the system needs to do is get regular updates from vehicles as they complete journeys, and as more and more cars can be updated over the air - it's not hard to see how it can be rolled out
As our homes get smarter and our lifestyles more digital it becomes much easier for this model of taxation to be introduced.
S.
Why would the government want to bear the cost of implementing the front end for this new tax system - when a computerised car can do it internally (Jag keep constant track of where my ipace is (if I want to use their connected services that is). The move to EV and the demonisation of fossil fuels uses social pressure to force cars to be "refreshed", building the infrastructure as we spend.. All the system needs to do is get regular updates from vehicles as they complete journeys, and as more and more cars can be updated over the air - it's not hard to see how it can be rolled out
As our homes get smarter and our lifestyles more digital it becomes much easier for this model of taxation to be introduced.
S.
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