Dipping my toe in to EV - Advice
Discussion
Hi All,
I have been toying with the idea of getting a small cheap EV for school and shopping duties for the family to use.
I thought I had found the perfect car....the Zoe 22kw. A nice example can be had for around £8-9k.
The only problem is the battery lease is putting me off. I have gone round and round in circles and hope someone can help.
I have phoned two independent dealers and Renault UK.
If I buy a car privately or from an independent car dealer, how do I know what the monthly lease on the battery is!? I liked to look a a local car and assumed it would be a £49 per month lease but Renault UK told me it was a £69 per month lease.
So does this mean that different cars will have different battery lease deals?
Really confused as to how to compare one car on autotrader/ebay to another?
IceBoy
PS. going off the Zoe now, should I just buy a Leaf?
I have been toying with the idea of getting a small cheap EV for school and shopping duties for the family to use.
I thought I had found the perfect car....the Zoe 22kw. A nice example can be had for around £8-9k.
The only problem is the battery lease is putting me off. I have gone round and round in circles and hope someone can help.
I have phoned two independent dealers and Renault UK.
If I buy a car privately or from an independent car dealer, how do I know what the monthly lease on the battery is!? I liked to look a a local car and assumed it would be a £49 per month lease but Renault UK told me it was a £69 per month lease.
So does this mean that different cars will have different battery lease deals?
Really confused as to how to compare one car on autotrader/ebay to another?
IceBoy
PS. going off the Zoe now, should I just buy a Leaf?
I think the battery lease rate goes up or down depending on the estimated annual mileage. Problem was Renault tried to claw back some of the cars purchase price that was too low to be profitable with the battery lease scheme. It was possible to buy the car at a higher price without the lease, and normally the seller should know if its a lease or non lease car, although most are lease. The £70 a month would buy quite a lot of fuel for a small run around, and the lease wont stop if you dont use the car for a while. It does however mean Renault will replace the battery if its charge retention drops I think to 80% but I dont know how the batteries are holding up after 4 or 5 years if you want to take a punt on it. Its a pity as a second hand Zoe looks like good value, but it does come with a sting in its tale with the lease.
I've got a 2013 24kwh leaf and would still go for the leaf with your choice.
Bigger car, better support for rapid charging (a fair chunk of new rapid chargers don't have the rapid type 2 connection), similar price.
Just make sure you get the second generation leaf as the first one had crappy battery technology and degrades faster.
Gen 2 cars started in 2013 (there is an overlap that year between gen1 and 2) and can be told apart by a normal handbrake (not electronic like the earlier ones), eco button on the steering wheel, no big plastic grey battery hump in the boot (not to be confused with the bose subwoofer on the Tekna models).
Make sure you get one that has both the rapid and AC charging ports as some of the very early ones were available without the rapid chademo connection.
Forgot to add Gen 2 cars also have a heat pump rather than just the resistive heater. Unfortunately the resistive heater has packed up in mine so I've just got the heat pump so doesn't get warm as quick as it used to but still usable on a sub zero day if you max the temperature out and recirculate the air.
Pain in the backside as to fix it the dash has to come out (unlike the left hand drive versions).
So make sure the heat comes on nice and quick if you're buying a used one.
Bigger car, better support for rapid charging (a fair chunk of new rapid chargers don't have the rapid type 2 connection), similar price.
Just make sure you get the second generation leaf as the first one had crappy battery technology and degrades faster.
Gen 2 cars started in 2013 (there is an overlap that year between gen1 and 2) and can be told apart by a normal handbrake (not electronic like the earlier ones), eco button on the steering wheel, no big plastic grey battery hump in the boot (not to be confused with the bose subwoofer on the Tekna models).
Make sure you get one that has both the rapid and AC charging ports as some of the very early ones were available without the rapid chademo connection.
Forgot to add Gen 2 cars also have a heat pump rather than just the resistive heater. Unfortunately the resistive heater has packed up in mine so I've just got the heat pump so doesn't get warm as quick as it used to but still usable on a sub zero day if you max the temperature out and recirculate the air.
Pain in the backside as to fix it the dash has to come out (unlike the left hand drive versions).
So make sure the heat comes on nice and quick if you're buying a used one.
Edited by andrewrob on Wednesday 9th September 13:15
You can get a BMW i3 for 11k - I know thats more but the battery is yours and the kids might love the more funky look, but it is more. You can also get one with the REX so range would never catch you out for 12k although you're adding to the complexity of the car which might result in bigger bills
I can't comment further from my knowledge other than to point you to the speakev website which is pretty active and would offer you constructive advice on the whole EV market. It certainly might be worth a read. On here you're likely to be told to just sell a kidney and lease a Tesla.
I can't comment further from my knowledge other than to point you to the speakev website which is pretty active and would offer you constructive advice on the whole EV market. It certainly might be worth a read. On here you're likely to be told to just sell a kidney and lease a Tesla.
9k is a lot for a battery lease 22kWh Zoe. I would have thought you could get one for 6-7. Battery lease is dependant on how many miles you do, but I'm not sure I'd trust the Renault dealer - the prices for the 40kWh battery leases were different. It's possible to buy the battery from RCI, but you have to get a quote based on the car and mileage etc. I think there are a few people on SpeakEV or RZOC (facebook) who have done this if you want.
If you do go for a Zoe and care about rapid charge times, pay attention to whether the car is a "Q" or and "R". The "Q" models can charge at 43kW from a rapid AC charger, the R ones only at 22kW. It doesn't make a huge difference if you mostly charge from home (that'll be 7kW on either), but if you are doing a lot of rapid charging then it might be worth getting a Q. It's also worth trying to find one with a Renault warranty - you can extend the warranty for a few hundred quid, but once it expires then you can't get it back under warranty, and if one of the big electrical components fails the bills can be several grand.
If you do go for a Zoe and care about rapid charge times, pay attention to whether the car is a "Q" or and "R". The "Q" models can charge at 43kW from a rapid AC charger, the R ones only at 22kW. It doesn't make a huge difference if you mostly charge from home (that'll be 7kW on either), but if you are doing a lot of rapid charging then it might be worth getting a Q. It's also worth trying to find one with a Renault warranty - you can extend the warranty for a few hundred quid, but once it expires then you can't get it back under warranty, and if one of the big electrical components fails the bills can be several grand.
Best explained here: https://www.gogreenautos.co.uk/buyers-guide/batter...
Renault dealers (and the rest of the trade) can be useless with this stuff.
As of earlier this year it's possible to buy out the battery lease - I think for a lot of people (as that article goes through) it can make more sense to leave it on lease though.
Renault dealers (and the rest of the trade) can be useless with this stuff.
As of earlier this year it's possible to buy out the battery lease - I think for a lot of people (as that article goes through) it can make more sense to leave it on lease though.
IceBoy said:
Hi All,
I have been toying with the idea of getting a small cheap EV for school and shopping duties for the family to use.
The question is why?I have been toying with the idea of getting a small cheap EV for school and shopping duties for the family to use.
All that hassle, you can save all that battery lease rubbish and save a lot of money by just getting something like this.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
My Yaris diesel only does shopping duties etc and last time I looked at the fuel tank cap it had a cobweb on it !
Unless you like EV drivability around town, which is apparently top notch, I'd just save the money and get an old diesel, less hassle and with money saved can go to Spain and back wearing a mask plus quarrantine.
Just call it a "particulate filter" and you are laughing/coughing.
Edited by Gandahar on Wednesday 9th September 15:07
Gandahar said:
The question is why?
All that hassle, you can save all that battery lease rubbish and save a lot of money by just getting something like this.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
My Yaris diesel only does shopping duties etc and last time I looked at the fuel tank cap it had a cobweb on it !
Unless you like EV drivability around town, which is apparently top notch, I'd just save the money and get an old diesel, less hassle and with money saved can go to Spain and back wearing a mask plus quarrantine.
Just call it a "particulate filter" and you are laughing/coughing.
Maybe he cares about local air quality?All that hassle, you can save all that battery lease rubbish and save a lot of money by just getting something like this.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
My Yaris diesel only does shopping duties etc and last time I looked at the fuel tank cap it had a cobweb on it !
Unless you like EV drivability around town, which is apparently top notch, I'd just save the money and get an old diesel, less hassle and with money saved can go to Spain and back wearing a mask plus quarrantine.
Just call it a "particulate filter" and you are laughing/coughing.
Edited by Gandahar on Wednesday 9th September 15:07
Maybe he does not want the mad costs of running/servicing a diesel?
Maybe he likes the idea of having a full tank of fuel every morning?
andrewrob said:
I've got a 2013 24kwh leaf and would still go for the leaf with your choice.
Bigger car, better support for rapid charging (a fair chunk of new rapid chargers don't have the rapid type 2 connection), similar price.
Just make sure you get the second generation leaf as the first one had crappy battery technology and degrades faster.
Gen 2 cars started in 2013 (there is an overlap that year between gen1 and 2) and can be told apart by a normal handbrake (not electronic like the earlier ones), eco button on the steering wheel, no big plastic grey battery hump in the boot (not to be confused with the bose subwoofer on the Tekna models).
Make sure you get one that has both the rapid and AC charging ports as some of the very early ones were available without the rapid chademo connection.
Forgot to add Gen 2 cars also have a heat pump rather than just the resistive heater. Unfortunately the resistive heater has packed up in mine so I've just got the heat pump so doesn't get warm as quick as it used to but still usable on a sub zero day if you max the temperature out and recirculate the air.
Pain in the backside as to fix it the dash has to come out (unlike the left hand drive versions).
So make sure the heat comes on nice and quick if you're buying a used one.
Another way to quickly tell if it's a UK build Gen2 car is the use of trim names - Visia, Acenta, Tekna. Gen1 Japanese built cars are all simply called "Nissan Leaf" with no further designation. I'd go for the Acenta trim as a minimum - gives you the heat pump, rapid charging (look for the two ports under the charge flap) and a few other toys as standard.Bigger car, better support for rapid charging (a fair chunk of new rapid chargers don't have the rapid type 2 connection), similar price.
Just make sure you get the second generation leaf as the first one had crappy battery technology and degrades faster.
Gen 2 cars started in 2013 (there is an overlap that year between gen1 and 2) and can be told apart by a normal handbrake (not electronic like the earlier ones), eco button on the steering wheel, no big plastic grey battery hump in the boot (not to be confused with the bose subwoofer on the Tekna models).
Make sure you get one that has both the rapid and AC charging ports as some of the very early ones were available without the rapid chademo connection.
Forgot to add Gen 2 cars also have a heat pump rather than just the resistive heater. Unfortunately the resistive heater has packed up in mine so I've just got the heat pump so doesn't get warm as quick as it used to but still usable on a sub zero day if you max the temperature out and recirculate the air.
Pain in the backside as to fix it the dash has to come out (unlike the left hand drive versions).
So make sure the heat comes on nice and quick if you're buying a used one.
Edited by andrewrob on Wednesday 9th September 13:15
An advantage of the Leaf is that you can see the battery health on the dashboard - look for the full 12 bars as detailed here:
Picture from the buyers guide located here - https://insideevs.com/news/325877/used-nissan-leaf...
For driving around town the Leaf is a great car and they're generally very reliable.
jjwilde said:
Gandahar said:
The question is why?
All that hassle, you can save all that battery lease rubbish and save a lot of money by just getting something like this.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
My Yaris diesel only does shopping duties etc and last time I looked at the fuel tank cap it had a cobweb on it !
Unless you like EV drivability around town, which is apparently top notch, I'd just save the money and get an old diesel, less hassle and with money saved can go to Spain and back wearing a mask plus quarrantine.
Just call it a "particulate filter" and you are laughing/coughing.
Maybe he cares about local air quality?All that hassle, you can save all that battery lease rubbish and save a lot of money by just getting something like this.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
My Yaris diesel only does shopping duties etc and last time I looked at the fuel tank cap it had a cobweb on it !
Unless you like EV drivability around town, which is apparently top notch, I'd just save the money and get an old diesel, less hassle and with money saved can go to Spain and back wearing a mask plus quarrantine.
Just call it a "particulate filter" and you are laughing/coughing.
Edited by Gandahar on Wednesday 9th September 15:07
Maybe he does not want the mad costs of running/servicing a diesel?
Maybe he likes the idea of having a full tank of fuel every morning?
Small, cheap diesels are, lets face it, f'ing horrible to drive
IceBoy said:
The only problem is the battery lease is putting me off.
PS. going off the Zoe now, should I just buy a Leaf?
The battery lease is a double edged sword. It costs you per month but makes the vehicle cheaper.PS. going off the Zoe now, should I just buy a Leaf?
And the responsibility for the battery is on Renault.
And you get breakdown cover as part of the deal.
The leaf? Its a decent car, more space than a zoe, imo not as good a battery pack (24vs 22) but should have chademo fast charging , Zoe will have AC charging only (but potentially up to 22kw if you can find it).
Have a look into which leaf, afiuk there was a slight revision with an electronic handbrake and a better regen/b mode not long after launch
essayer said:
Renault have recently started offering battery lease buyout on the Zoe so it’s possible these will start getting paid off now
yep - Nicolas Raimo on youtube done a good video on that, sometimes it works out well, other times not so. Depends on the buyout price and difference between costs of the car itself.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBruVzSvcc0
jjwilde said:
Gandahar said:
The question is why?
All that hassle, you can save all that battery lease rubbish and save a lot of money by just getting something like this.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
My Yaris diesel only does shopping duties etc and last time I looked at the fuel tank cap it had a cobweb on it !
Unless you like EV drivability around town, which is apparently top notch, I'd just save the money and get an old diesel, less hassle and with money saved can go to Spain and back wearing a mask plus quarrantine.
Just call it a "particulate filter" and you are laughing/coughing.
Maybe he cares about local air quality?All that hassle, you can save all that battery lease rubbish and save a lot of money by just getting something like this.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
My Yaris diesel only does shopping duties etc and last time I looked at the fuel tank cap it had a cobweb on it !
Unless you like EV drivability around town, which is apparently top notch, I'd just save the money and get an old diesel, less hassle and with money saved can go to Spain and back wearing a mask plus quarrantine.
Just call it a "particulate filter" and you are laughing/coughing.
Edited by Gandahar on Wednesday 9th September 15:07
Maybe he does not want the mad costs of running/servicing a diesel?
Maybe he likes the idea of having a full tank of fuel every morning?
What mad costs of running diesel? You can get a new Renault Zoe for £26k or a diesel Clio for £17.5k. That's £8.5k in pocket immediately ...
Full tank of fuel every morning? Yeah but I like a 600 mile range just in case ....
Edited by Gandahar on Thursday 10th September 13:49
Max_Torque said:
jjwilde said:
Gandahar said:
The question is why?
All that hassle, you can save all that battery lease rubbish and save a lot of money by just getting something like this.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
My Yaris diesel only does shopping duties etc and last time I looked at the fuel tank cap it had a cobweb on it !
Unless you like EV drivability around town, which is apparently top notch, I'd just save the money and get an old diesel, less hassle and with money saved can go to Spain and back wearing a mask plus quarrantine.
Just call it a "particulate filter" and you are laughing/coughing.
Maybe he cares about local air quality?All that hassle, you can save all that battery lease rubbish and save a lot of money by just getting something like this.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
My Yaris diesel only does shopping duties etc and last time I looked at the fuel tank cap it had a cobweb on it !
Unless you like EV drivability around town, which is apparently top notch, I'd just save the money and get an old diesel, less hassle and with money saved can go to Spain and back wearing a mask plus quarrantine.
Just call it a "particulate filter" and you are laughing/coughing.
Edited by Gandahar on Wednesday 9th September 15:07
Maybe he does not want the mad costs of running/servicing a diesel?
Maybe he likes the idea of having a full tank of fuel every morning?
Small, cheap diesels are, lets face it, f'ing horrible to drive
You still cannot even get close with a small BEV given that criteria, as I mentioned above.
Edited by Gandahar on Thursday 10th September 13:42
ZesPak said:
Gandahar said:
Tell me who ever cared about local air quality ? The only time I think about it is when I drive to the dog walk and go past Fat Boys burger van at 9am and then suddenly get hungry ...
Anyone who's ever been on a bike on a cold morning?Seriously?
You'll be complaining about the smelly cows flatulence next on your bike ride ... !
PS Note the UK is not China or California currently. I walk the dog every day for hours and I can tell you the air quality is fine ...
Stop making up stuff to knock diesels ...Edited by Gandahar on Thursday 10th September 14:01
Gandahar said:
Feeble response. If you are that worried get a Peleton and some air condtioner with a filter ?
You'll be complaining about the smelly cows flatulence next on your bike ride ... !
PS Note the UK is not China or California currently. I walk the dog every day for hours and I can tell you the air quality is fine ... Stop making up stuff to knock diesels ...
Wow, you really are out of touch, aren't you?You'll be complaining about the smelly cows flatulence next on your bike ride ... !
PS Note the UK is not China or California currently. I walk the dog every day for hours and I can tell you the air quality is fine ...
Stop making up stuff to knock diesels ...- A lot of us actually use bike as a means to transport. Putting it on rollers won't get my kids to school.
- A lot of people actually live in or near cities. Even villages with some start stop traffic smells horrible in the winter.
- If you think diesel isn't that bad, go in your garage and pick one for the day 1) your diesel car running next to you 2) company of a cow
ZesPak said:
Gandahar said:
Feeble response. If you are that worried get a Peleton and some air condtioner with a filter ?
You'll be complaining about the smelly cows flatulence next on your bike ride ... !
PS Note the UK is not China or California currently. I walk the dog every day for hours and I can tell you the air quality is fine ... Stop making up stuff to knock diesels ...
Wow, you really are out of touch, aren't you?You'll be complaining about the smelly cows flatulence next on your bike ride ... !
PS Note the UK is not China or California currently. I walk the dog every day for hours and I can tell you the air quality is fine ...
Stop making up stuff to knock diesels ...- A lot of us actually use bike as a means to transport. Putting it on rollers won't get my kids to school.
- A lot of people actually live in or near cities. Even villages with some start stop traffic smells horrible in the winter.
- If you think diesel isn't that bad, go in your garage and pick one for the day 1) your diesel car running next to you 2) company of a cow
- A lot of us actually use bike as a means to transport. Putting it on rollers won't get my kids to school.
Your above post continues that trend, also adds insults.
Let's face it, apart from PPM measurements it is hard to physically notice difference from high or low pollution in the UK from vehicles. I go out every day and since Covid and massive reduction in traffic I have not suddenly noticed that breathing is better. When I walk my dog near the A21 I don't notice any difference breathing wise from when I am miles away.
But apparently on a cold morning and on a bike suddenly you are overcome with fumes?
I will however eat less meat so your nose is less offended. Pax ?
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