Too soon to go electric? cont...
Discussion
Or too late to take advantage of the tax breaks...
Hello folks
Had a quick search but couldn't find and up to date answer that fits.
Short version:
Will be changing my company car in the near future and the prospect of an electric option is becoming more appealing. pitfalls/costs/opinions from real users welcomed.
Long version:
I currently have a BMW 320d that costs a fair bit on benefit in kind tax (BIK), I do a high mileage of over 50k/year approximately half of which are claimable on the company, the balance are personal use, including commuting to the office of around 100mile round trip.
I often have longer trips to do that exceed the claimed range, of 300-350 miles in a day, occasionally up to 600 and very rarely of 700+
The actual electric cost to "fill up" is not free and whilst there are savings to be made, I cannot reconcile the extra time out of my longer days against the savings that I can quantify. The BIK is currently zero which would make a difference but this is changing and will be going up in April...have I missed the boat to get the best benefit.
There will also be a nominal saving on congestion charge etc but not enough that will be a factor in the decision.
Specific areas of concern:
What is the actual range likely to be in the real world with heaters/air con working etc. (Ideally as a percentage of the claimed!!)
How much time would be added to a day where the trip is 250 (ish) each way.
What's the real life cost of running electric vehicles per mile in your electric bills.
Options seem to be i-Pace Tesla 3 or maybe Polestar 2...
(Some negotiation with the boss will be required)
Thanks in advance.
Hello folks
Had a quick search but couldn't find and up to date answer that fits.
Short version:
Will be changing my company car in the near future and the prospect of an electric option is becoming more appealing. pitfalls/costs/opinions from real users welcomed.
Long version:
I currently have a BMW 320d that costs a fair bit on benefit in kind tax (BIK), I do a high mileage of over 50k/year approximately half of which are claimable on the company, the balance are personal use, including commuting to the office of around 100mile round trip.
I often have longer trips to do that exceed the claimed range, of 300-350 miles in a day, occasionally up to 600 and very rarely of 700+
The actual electric cost to "fill up" is not free and whilst there are savings to be made, I cannot reconcile the extra time out of my longer days against the savings that I can quantify. The BIK is currently zero which would make a difference but this is changing and will be going up in April...have I missed the boat to get the best benefit.
There will also be a nominal saving on congestion charge etc but not enough that will be a factor in the decision.
Specific areas of concern:
What is the actual range likely to be in the real world with heaters/air con working etc. (Ideally as a percentage of the claimed!!)
How much time would be added to a day where the trip is 250 (ish) each way.
What's the real life cost of running electric vehicles per mile in your electric bills.
Options seem to be i-Pace Tesla 3 or maybe Polestar 2...
(Some negotiation with the boss will be required)
Thanks in advance.
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ lets you see what a given journey will be like in a particular car. It's fairly conservative by default (eg starts at 90%, always stops by 10% battery) but you can go in and fiddle with settings. I usually set 100% depart, 5 degrees and rain, 5% arrival
Something like London-Morecambe-London (easiest I could think of around 250 miles each way) in a Model 3 Long Range it recommends a stop of 22 mins after over 3 hours of driving, then one of 15 mins about 2 hours into the return trip. Adds 38 mins to more than 8 hours of seat time. This is assuming you can't leave it somewhere charging in Morecambe. The two Supercharger visits would cost a total of £22. Refilling at home back to 100% would need about 75kWh ("units") so on a typical flat tariff (14p/unit) would be just over £10, on a cheap off-peak tariff around half that.
Charge at home for your usual commute and it's around 3-4p a mile.
BIK is currently zero but goes up to 1% next year then 2% the year after. Still way better than the 14-15% that non-electrified cars start at.
Something like London-Morecambe-London (easiest I could think of around 250 miles each way) in a Model 3 Long Range it recommends a stop of 22 mins after over 3 hours of driving, then one of 15 mins about 2 hours into the return trip. Adds 38 mins to more than 8 hours of seat time. This is assuming you can't leave it somewhere charging in Morecambe. The two Supercharger visits would cost a total of £22. Refilling at home back to 100% would need about 75kWh ("units") so on a typical flat tariff (14p/unit) would be just over £10, on a cheap off-peak tariff around half that.
Charge at home for your usual commute and it's around 3-4p a mile.
BIK is currently zero but goes up to 1% next year then 2% the year after. Still way better than the 14-15% that non-electrified cars start at.
You need to have a good read through this topic:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The consensus was that an EV is not really justifiable for that guy's business usage,
and he 'only' does 25k a year compared to your 50k!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The consensus was that an EV is not really justifiable for that guy's business usage,
and he 'only' does 25k a year compared to your 50k!
Where to start..
The best EV will have a range of 250-300 miles on a full charge. If you charge on the move you'll never charge to 100% because i slows down as it fills up and you'll be fed up after its past 80%.
But I'll put one in the mix for you.. I assume as a company car you'll only be allowed to claim 4p which is the HMRC rate. Your long trips will require supercharging and the rate is 24p or so a kwh which equates to about 8p a mile (varies depending on model etc but that wonlt be far away).
Your 700 mile trip which is presumably expensed is going to cost you £56 and you'll be able to claim £28.You might do a little better through charging at home before you start etc you I doubt much more. Charge on other makes like Ionity - depends where you are, and its not 8p a mile its 20p a mile to charge.
The tax advantages on 0% BIK and 1% from April are good. And for your 100 mile daily commute its as cheap as chips, but those long expensed journey where you'll add a fair bit of time sitting around (bad if you want to get home, not a problem if you want a rest) are going to wind you up. I did 30k a year with 200-300 miles a day work trips in a car that could just about do 200 miles and it got tedious.. but it is doable.
The best EV will have a range of 250-300 miles on a full charge. If you charge on the move you'll never charge to 100% because i slows down as it fills up and you'll be fed up after its past 80%.
But I'll put one in the mix for you.. I assume as a company car you'll only be allowed to claim 4p which is the HMRC rate. Your long trips will require supercharging and the rate is 24p or so a kwh which equates to about 8p a mile (varies depending on model etc but that wonlt be far away).
Your 700 mile trip which is presumably expensed is going to cost you £56 and you'll be able to claim £28.You might do a little better through charging at home before you start etc you I doubt much more. Charge on other makes like Ionity - depends where you are, and its not 8p a mile its 20p a mile to charge.
The tax advantages on 0% BIK and 1% from April are good. And for your 100 mile daily commute its as cheap as chips, but those long expensed journey where you'll add a fair bit of time sitting around (bad if you want to get home, not a problem if you want a rest) are going to wind you up. I did 30k a year with 200-300 miles a day work trips in a car that could just about do 200 miles and it got tedious.. but it is doable.
dmsims said:
50K miles a year, I don't envy you!
Diseasel BIK is 27% now and going up 1% p.a.
If you can't make a BEV work for you consider a (plug-in) hybrid where BIK is 10% and rising 1% p.a.
This. I wouldn't go BEV with those kind of mileages as would be a nightmare but a 330e should be a perfect replacement for the 320d being quicker, better equipped and a lot cheaper on BIK. Diseasel BIK is 27% now and going up 1% p.a.
If you can't make a BEV work for you consider a (plug-in) hybrid where BIK is 10% and rising 1% p.a.
sjg said:
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ lets you see what a given journey will be like in a particular car.
Excellent website and advice, thanks.sjg said:
Something like London-Morecambe-London (easiest I could think of around 250 miles each way)
I don't go North if I can help it, more like Sussex to Cornwall!!! 
dmsims said:
50K miles a year, I don't envy you!
Diseasel BIK is 27% now and going up 1% p.a.
If you can't make a BEV work for you consider a (plug-in) hybrid where BIK is 10% and rising 1% p.a.
It's amazing how used to high mileage you get, doesn't bother me at all now.Diseasel BIK is 27% now and going up 1% p.a.
If you can't make a BEV work for you consider a (plug-in) hybrid where BIK is 10% and rising 1% p.a.
Great advice on the PHEV though, shame that they're nearly all petrol, the HMRC rates for fuel are less generous in real world fuel costs. Will look at more options though.
SWoll said:
This. I wouldn't go BEV with those kind of mileages as would be a nightmare but a 330e should be a perfect replacement for the 320d being quicker, better equipped and a lot cheaper on BIK.
But with a very short E range it becomes quite low MPG with petrol and for private use or long trips, EDIT:
Looking at the figures, maybe it is!! This looks like the best way forward. BIK saving of well over £200/month and 20% increase in mileage allowance to cover additional fuel usage, without the saving on the plug in part.
Edited by Stubby Pete on Friday 20th November 15:20
Interesting thread.
I must admit I'm thinking a Polestar 2 would make a good next taxi for my fleet. That website is quite good. I could do a LHR and back and only need a 30 minute charge on a Polar charger at Bagshot. No idea what that would cost, of course. But fully charged at home (even not on a Economy 7 tariff) and using the Polar must be less expensive than petrol or diesel.
I must admit I'm thinking a Polestar 2 would make a good next taxi for my fleet. That website is quite good. I could do a LHR and back and only need a 30 minute charge on a Polar charger at Bagshot. No idea what that would cost, of course. But fully charged at home (even not on a Economy 7 tariff) and using the Polar must be less expensive than petrol or diesel.
Tyre Smoke said:
<clip> a 30 minute charge on a Polar charger at Bagshot...
Not wishing to derail the thread, but can I ask what a Polar charger is? I am not at all up to speed with EVs so does this mean (aside from at home) a Polestar can only charge at a Polar charger and a Teslar can only charge at a Tesla charger or can they also all charge at generic chargers? RichB said:
Tyre Smoke said:
<clip> a 30 minute charge on a Polar charger at Bagshot...
Not wishing to derail the thread, but can I ask what a Polar charger is? I am not at all up to speed with EVs so does this mean (aside from at home) a Polestar can only charge at a Polar charger and a Teslar can only charge at a Tesla charger or can they also all charge at generic chargers? I’m converting my 1957 Ford pop but for none of the reasons many do. Don’t go into low emissions zones or congestion charge zones. Just to make the car faster, smoother and quieter. I reckon you will struggle with 50k miles. I can see beyond 2030 and however long the petrol/diesel cars survive, a change in the way people work. The virus is changing that now and a view into the future. I don’t envy you
Paul fairall said:
I’m converting my 1957 Ford pop but for none of the reasons many do. Don’t go into low emissions zones or congestion charge zones. Just to make the car faster, smoother and quieter. I reckon you will struggle with 50k miles. I can see beyond 2030 and however long the petrol/diesel cars survive, a change in the way people work. The virus is changing that now and a view into the future. I don’t envy you
Not quite as old but was thinking of doing similar with my Capri (or a different one). Battery pack can't be much heavier than a Polar is a network of public chargers. Owned by BP these days hence lots of new ones going on BP petrol forecourts. They have some 100+kW chargers (lots of the new ones are) but hundreds of older 50kW ones around. Almost all just take contactless payment cards now, or you can subscribe for about £8 a month, get a card to use a bit like a fuel card, and pay cheaper rates.
Something like a Polestar 2 or Model 3 will get about 170-200 miles of range in an hour on a 50kW charger.
Tesla superchargers are for Tesla cars only.
Something like a Polestar 2 or Model 3 will get about 170-200 miles of range in an hour on a 50kW charger.
Tesla superchargers are for Tesla cars only.
RichB said:
Tyre Smoke said:
<clip> a 30 minute charge on a Polar charger at Bagshot...
Not wishing to derail the thread, but can I ask what a Polar charger is? I am not at all up to speed with EVs so does this mean (aside from at home) a Polestar can only charge at a Polar charger and a Teslar can only charge at a Tesla charger or can they also all charge at generic chargers? Polestar can charge at any third party charger (Polar, Ecotricity, PodPoint, BP Chargemaster etc.)
Tesla's can charge at all of those third party chargers + Tesla Superchargers..
Tyre Smoke said:
Interesting thread.
I must admit I'm thinking a Polestar 2 would make a good next taxi for my fleet. That website is quite good. I could do a LHR and back and only need a 30 minute charge on a Polar charger at Bagshot. No idea what that would cost, of course. But fully charged at home (even not on a Economy 7 tariff) and using the Polar must be less expensive than petrol or diesel.
For the first time I've seen, there was a queue at the Polar chargers in Bagshot on Monday morning, never seen more than one car parked there before.I must admit I'm thinking a Polestar 2 would make a good next taxi for my fleet. That website is quite good. I could do a LHR and back and only need a 30 minute charge on a Polar charger at Bagshot. No idea what that would cost, of course. But fully charged at home (even not on a Economy 7 tariff) and using the Polar must be less expensive than petrol or diesel.
There are only two FYI.
This is where the Tesla charger network come in very handy, there are some fleet services 10mins up the road.
sjg said:
Polar is a network of public chargers. Owned by BP these days hence lots of new ones going on BP petrol forecourts. They have some 100+kW chargers (lots of the new ones are) but hundreds of older 50kW ones around. Almost all just take contactless payment cards now, or you can subscribe for about £8 a month, get a card to use a bit like a fuel card, and pay cheaper rates.
Something like a Polestar 2 or Model 3 will get about 170-200 miles of range in an hour on a 50kW charger.
Tesla superchargers are for Tesla cars only.
Thanks, I'm learning. Something like a Polestar 2 or Model 3 will get about 170-200 miles of range in an hour on a 50kW charger.
Tesla superchargers are for Tesla cars only.
Stubby Pete said:
I often have longer trips to do that exceed the claimed range, of 300-350 miles in a day, occasionally up to 600 and very rarely of 700+
My use case was a bit lower than that, actually half 
.This would mean planning and stopping. If you're young and used to the miles you probably do them in one go, which would break up that schedule.
The Tesla SuC network is slowly losing it's USP, but if you do mileages like that you can use all the chargers there are.
I made it work, even for a number of months with an older MS 75D (300km range!) because most of my customers were in the Netherlands, where a lot of them have chargers on their parkings or at least walking distance.
As mentioned, abetterrouteplanner is a good start, but not all (especially destination) chargers ar on there. I usually calculate it as "300km drive -> 30 min stop -> 300km drive".
For me, because of my mileage, I reached my destination was sooner than the range of the car so it looked more like "drive to destination using >50% of charge -> charge at destination -> leave for home with car fully charged".
Destination charging is far from a hinderance if it's available. More often than not, at my customers, it was even FoC.
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