What do we want from the 'PH' electric car of the future?
Discussion
We all the recent media attention, I've been reflecting a fair bit recently on what I would want from an electric car by the time I have to have one (realistically in 20 to 30 years time?).
All the talk at the moment is about the tech, range, power outputs and the obsession of integrating huge batteries into the floorpans. Personally, I'm be much more interested if electric cars of the future were designed to be much more modular. For example, light weight removable batteries, electric motors that can be removed and tinkered with. Basically, an electric car that can be modified and played with by enthusiasts like cars from the 60s to the 90s. All the current ones are so complex and heavy I can't see many petrol heads getting excited about them at all - I certainly don't, but I haven't really liked many modern ICE cars in the last 5 years either (my target market is the stuff featured in MC magazine!).
So, my list for the enthusiast electric car of the future would be:
Lightish (say sub 1300kg, but the lighter the better)
Ability to remove motor and tinker/upgrade
Ability to remove battery/ies to upgrade/lower weight as appropriate for intended purpose
Ideally have access to battery tech that enables you to pull up at a service station and swap batteries there somehow so the experience is more similar to refuelling than waiting around charging)
Ability to change driven wheels to suit your driving mode/preference
Personally, I would design mine as a hatch or coupe.
What do people think would be a good idea for the enthusiasts electric car of the future?
All the talk at the moment is about the tech, range, power outputs and the obsession of integrating huge batteries into the floorpans. Personally, I'm be much more interested if electric cars of the future were designed to be much more modular. For example, light weight removable batteries, electric motors that can be removed and tinkered with. Basically, an electric car that can be modified and played with by enthusiasts like cars from the 60s to the 90s. All the current ones are so complex and heavy I can't see many petrol heads getting excited about them at all - I certainly don't, but I haven't really liked many modern ICE cars in the last 5 years either (my target market is the stuff featured in MC magazine!).
So, my list for the enthusiast electric car of the future would be:
Lightish (say sub 1300kg, but the lighter the better)
Ability to remove motor and tinker/upgrade
Ability to remove battery/ies to upgrade/lower weight as appropriate for intended purpose
Ideally have access to battery tech that enables you to pull up at a service station and swap batteries there somehow so the experience is more similar to refuelling than waiting around charging)
Ability to change driven wheels to suit your driving mode/preference
Personally, I would design mine as a hatch or coupe.
What do people think would be a good idea for the enthusiasts electric car of the future?
I'm driving my perfect electric car today, and it weighs less than 1200 kg, has a very stiff.stong carbon firbe body, is rear motor'd rwd, and is hugely fun to drive. It's been on sale for the last 7 years......
(and yes, some people find the looks a bit challenging, but that adds to the fun when it scampers off at a whole unexpected pace away from the dino-juicers..... ;-)
(and yes, some people find the looks a bit challenging, but that adds to the fun when it scampers off at a whole unexpected pace away from the dino-juicers..... ;-)
A 10 minute recharge time. I have the equivalent of it now with the cheapest and most ancient combustion powered car. This would make any range shortcomings a non-issue.
I'd also like to be able to pay for electricity with a debit or credit card and not have to fart around with setting up multiple accounts and downloading multiple apps depending on supplier.
Performance-wise, EVs are pretty impressive today, IMO.
I'd also like to be able to pay for electricity with a debit or credit card and not have to fart around with setting up multiple accounts and downloading multiple apps depending on supplier.
Performance-wise, EVs are pretty impressive today, IMO.
I'm saddened by the death of the ICE car.
We are coming to the end of a period of history when, for around 60 years, just about everyone has been able to afford personal transportation: The car.
You got to choose where and when you travelled. You haven't really had to think about range and for most of this time (until recently) you could go as fast as you (within reason) wanted.
BV-philes tell us just how much better the BV is than the ICE car but I'm afraid they are missing the real point.
The change from ICE to BV isn't just about a change in the propulsion mechanism, it's far more fundamental than that.
It's a complete change to our society - moving from the more independent notion of enthusiastic car ownership to something else.
Within just a couple of decades virtually all non BV cars will be legislated / taxed off the roads and I'm far too much of a cynic to think that the state wont use (perfectly reasonable) health and safety justification to take the driving out of transportation.
Think about this:
Surely, for the sake of society, Big-Brother will determine if, how and when you can drive. It will do so by outright bans on driving to certain places, taxation will be such that there will be road pricing for time of day as well as distance, your vehicles speed will be controlled (not limited but actually controlled). etc
If we are to embrace the new world order then we should do the following, given the post-Brexit and post-Covid economy the State could design one single EV platform and the only vehicles permitted on the roads would use this platform.
eg
This would have huge economy of scale benefits. These platforms would be designed to 'talk' to one another. Because all vehicles would have exactly the same brakes/ suspension / weight etc autonomous driving would actually work. Cars could drive along the motorway at 70mph separated by just cm's. Drive by a school max 20 mph, motorway 70, gets foggy 20mph. You don't choose
The optimist in me would say that these platforms should be for sale to all and sundry, meaning that the big boys (UK car manufacturers) would use them but so to could new start ups and even individuals.
I'm reminded of all the weird and wonderful 'kit car' type creations that were based on the VW Beetle platform.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/beentravelin/vw-bug-ki...
(Don't knock it for being crap now, but the Beetle was state of the art in 1936 - far more advanced than (say) the BMW Dixie (Austin 7) of just a few years earlier)
At least we would have some choice in the way our cars look (though probably not be allowed to actually perform!)
We are coming to the end of a period of history when, for around 60 years, just about everyone has been able to afford personal transportation: The car.
You got to choose where and when you travelled. You haven't really had to think about range and for most of this time (until recently) you could go as fast as you (within reason) wanted.
BV-philes tell us just how much better the BV is than the ICE car but I'm afraid they are missing the real point.
The change from ICE to BV isn't just about a change in the propulsion mechanism, it's far more fundamental than that.
It's a complete change to our society - moving from the more independent notion of enthusiastic car ownership to something else.
Within just a couple of decades virtually all non BV cars will be legislated / taxed off the roads and I'm far too much of a cynic to think that the state wont use (perfectly reasonable) health and safety justification to take the driving out of transportation.
Think about this:
Surely, for the sake of society, Big-Brother will determine if, how and when you can drive. It will do so by outright bans on driving to certain places, taxation will be such that there will be road pricing for time of day as well as distance, your vehicles speed will be controlled (not limited but actually controlled). etc
If we are to embrace the new world order then we should do the following, given the post-Brexit and post-Covid economy the State could design one single EV platform and the only vehicles permitted on the roads would use this platform.
eg
This would have huge economy of scale benefits. These platforms would be designed to 'talk' to one another. Because all vehicles would have exactly the same brakes/ suspension / weight etc autonomous driving would actually work. Cars could drive along the motorway at 70mph separated by just cm's. Drive by a school max 20 mph, motorway 70, gets foggy 20mph. You don't choose
The optimist in me would say that these platforms should be for sale to all and sundry, meaning that the big boys (UK car manufacturers) would use them but so to could new start ups and even individuals.
I'm reminded of all the weird and wonderful 'kit car' type creations that were based on the VW Beetle platform.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/beentravelin/vw-bug-ki...
(Don't knock it for being crap now, but the Beetle was state of the art in 1936 - far more advanced than (say) the BMW Dixie (Austin 7) of just a few years earlier)
At least we would have some choice in the way our cars look (though probably not be allowed to actually perform!)
Max_Torque said:
I'm driving my perfect electric car today, and it weighs less than 1200 kg, has a very stiff.stong carbon firbe body, is rear motor'd rwd, and is hugely fun to drive. It's been on sale for the last 7 years......
(and yes, some people find the looks a bit challenging, but that adds to the fun when it scampers off at a whole unexpected pace away from the dino-juicers..... ;-)
Dino-juicers? I’d that what we are called? (and yes, some people find the looks a bit challenging, but that adds to the fun when it scampers off at a whole unexpected pace away from the dino-juicers..... ;-)
alfaspecial said:
I'm saddened by the death of the ICE car.
We are coming to the end of a period of history when, for around 60 years, just about everyone has been able to afford personal transportation: The car.
You got to choose where and when you travelled. You haven't really had to think about range and for most of this time (until recently) you could go as fast as you (within reason) wanted.
BV-philes tell us just how much better the BV is than the ICE car but I'm afraid they are missing the real point.
The change from ICE to BV isn't just about a change in the propulsion mechanism, it's far more fundamental than that.
It's a complete change to our society - moving from the more independent notion of enthusiastic car ownership to something else.
Within just a couple of decades virtually all non BV cars will be legislated / taxed off the roads and I'm far too much of a cynic to think that the state wont use (perfectly reasonable) health and safety justification to take the driving out of transportation.
Think about this:
Surely, for the sake of society, Big-Brother will determine if, how and when you can drive. It will do so by outright bans on driving to certain places, taxation will be such that there will be road pricing for time of day as well as distance, your vehicles speed will be controlled (not limited but actually controlled). etc
If we are to embrace the new world order then we should do the following, given the post-Brexit and post-Covid economy the State could design one single EV platform and the only vehicles permitted on the roads would use this platform.
eg
This would have huge economy of scale benefits. These platforms would be designed to 'talk' to one another. Because all vehicles would have exactly the same brakes/ suspension / weight etc autonomous driving would actually work. Cars could drive along the motorway at 70mph separated by just cm's. Drive by a school max 20 mph, motorway 70, gets foggy 20mph. You don't choose
The optimist in me would say that these platforms should be for sale to all and sundry, meaning that the big boys (UK car manufacturers) would use them but so to could new start ups and even individuals.
I'm reminded of all the weird and wonderful 'kit car' type creations that were based on the VW Beetle platform.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/beentravelin/vw-bug-ki...
(Don't knock it for being crap now, but the Beetle was state of the art in 1936 - far more advanced than (say) the BMW Dixie (Austin 7) of just a few years earlier)
At least we would have some choice in the way our cars look (though probably not be allowed to actually perform!)
And how is that anything to do with how the motive energy is stored in the car? All those things ^^ which may or may not come true are already both technically possible and already in actual ICE production cars (active cruise, speed limit recognition, lane assist, auto braking etc)We are coming to the end of a period of history when, for around 60 years, just about everyone has been able to afford personal transportation: The car.
You got to choose where and when you travelled. You haven't really had to think about range and for most of this time (until recently) you could go as fast as you (within reason) wanted.
BV-philes tell us just how much better the BV is than the ICE car but I'm afraid they are missing the real point.
The change from ICE to BV isn't just about a change in the propulsion mechanism, it's far more fundamental than that.
It's a complete change to our society - moving from the more independent notion of enthusiastic car ownership to something else.
Within just a couple of decades virtually all non BV cars will be legislated / taxed off the roads and I'm far too much of a cynic to think that the state wont use (perfectly reasonable) health and safety justification to take the driving out of transportation.
Think about this:
Surely, for the sake of society, Big-Brother will determine if, how and when you can drive. It will do so by outright bans on driving to certain places, taxation will be such that there will be road pricing for time of day as well as distance, your vehicles speed will be controlled (not limited but actually controlled). etc
If we are to embrace the new world order then we should do the following, given the post-Brexit and post-Covid economy the State could design one single EV platform and the only vehicles permitted on the roads would use this platform.
eg
This would have huge economy of scale benefits. These platforms would be designed to 'talk' to one another. Because all vehicles would have exactly the same brakes/ suspension / weight etc autonomous driving would actually work. Cars could drive along the motorway at 70mph separated by just cm's. Drive by a school max 20 mph, motorway 70, gets foggy 20mph. You don't choose
The optimist in me would say that these platforms should be for sale to all and sundry, meaning that the big boys (UK car manufacturers) would use them but so to could new start ups and even individuals.
I'm reminded of all the weird and wonderful 'kit car' type creations that were based on the VW Beetle platform.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/beentravelin/vw-bug-ki...
(Don't knock it for being crap now, but the Beetle was state of the art in 1936 - far more advanced than (say) the BMW Dixie (Austin 7) of just a few years earlier)
At least we would have some choice in the way our cars look (though probably not be allowed to actually perform!)
There is also this weird "all ICE cars are great" rose tinting going on. Let me remind you:
that^^ is a pretty typical ICE car. Ooh, be still my beating heart!
yes there will be crap electric cars, but no more or less crap than the current ones that just happened to be powered by oil!
StuntmanMike said:
Max_Torque said:
I'm driving my perfect electric car today, and it weighs less than 1200 kg, has a very stiff.stong carbon firbe body, is rear motor'd rwd, and is hugely fun to drive. It's been on sale for the last 7 years......
(and yes, some people find the looks a bit challenging, but that adds to the fun when it scampers off at a whole unexpected pace away from the dino-juicers..... ;-)
Dino-juicers? I’d that what we are called? (and yes, some people find the looks a bit challenging, but that adds to the fun when it scampers off at a whole unexpected pace away from the dino-juicers..... ;-)
a small, low, RWD, single seater with a square wheel base that would both be ideal for commuting and for hooning about back roads and on track
not unlike this but 0-100mph in about 7 seconds
https://www.designboom.com/technology/volkswagen-n...
not unlike this but 0-100mph in about 7 seconds
https://www.designboom.com/technology/volkswagen-n...
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Thursday 10th December 13:24
I want it to be 1000kg or less
Charge itself from a smart road network to reduce range anxiety and make long journeys possible with no stopping/advanced planning
switchable fwd/rwd/4wd and variable chassis length
Versatile seating arrangement depending on useage with the ability to 'swap' body at dealers from a 2 seat roadster to a 7 seat family wagon as a drive in drive out service ( ie we own the chassis/running gear but rent the body style)
Charge itself from a smart road network to reduce range anxiety and make long journeys possible with no stopping/advanced planning
switchable fwd/rwd/4wd and variable chassis length
Versatile seating arrangement depending on useage with the ability to 'swap' body at dealers from a 2 seat roadster to a 7 seat family wagon as a drive in drive out service ( ie we own the chassis/running gear but rent the body style)
Max_Torque said:
And how is that anything to do with how the motive energy is stored in the car? All those things ^^ which may or may not come true are already both technically possible and already in actual ICE production cars (active cruise, speed limit recognition, lane assist, auto braking etc)
There is also this weird "all ICE cars are great" rose tinting going on. Let me remind you:
that^^ is a pretty typical ICE car. Ooh, be still my beating heart!
yes there will be crap electric cars, but no more or less crap than the current ones that just happened to be powered by oil!
I have had a ride in one of those as a mini cab customer. It had 316,000 miles on it and there was not so much as a squeak or rattle. Exciting, no. Really good at what is was designed to do though. There is also this weird "all ICE cars are great" rose tinting going on. Let me remind you:
that^^ is a pretty typical ICE car. Ooh, be still my beating heart!
yes there will be crap electric cars, but no more or less crap than the current ones that just happened to be powered by oil!
For a start, I'd trade the low CoG of a skateboard chassis for a lower seat position. Possibly means you end up with a T-shape battery along the centre position and behind the seats.
Keeping weight no more than 1200kg, but ideally lighter. Responsiveness being the key design target.
Targa top would be great, boot space of two overnight bags minimum, and circa 250hp.
Would probably need 60kWh batter to have a great touring range, and a sufficient thrashing range. 120kW charging ideally, and charge port in the rear quarter panel!
Keeping weight no more than 1200kg, but ideally lighter. Responsiveness being the key design target.
Targa top would be great, boot space of two overnight bags minimum, and circa 250hp.
Would probably need 60kWh batter to have a great touring range, and a sufficient thrashing range. 120kW charging ideally, and charge port in the rear quarter panel!
Tmrtom said:
What do we want from the 'PH' electric car of the future?
One with an engine..... 
I want electric drive. But I want a better way of producing on-board electricity instead of heavy batteries for storing it. Maybe along the lines of a turbine running on a synthetic bio fuel. With maybe a capacitor storage system to make use of regen capabilities.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 10th December 14:38
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