Scrap Hybrid for a new diesel? Green NCAP
Discussion
Anyone looked at the testing being done by Green NCAP? Amazing that some new diesel cars score better than many hybrids. Indeed some hybrids have poor Green credentials. Very good website. Tax benefits being given to some hybrids completely misleading in a Green context !
Hybrids the next scandal ?
Hybrids the next scandal ?
That's not true. I just looked at the website.
The overall ratings for the 2020 and 2021 diesels tested are relatively low. The "best" diesel on there, the Octavia has a overall rating of 3.5 stars which is exactly the same as the Yaris hybrid and the C-HR hybrid. Some of these modern diesels listed have a score of just 2 stars.
Additionally, the greenhouse score for diesels listed tends to be quite low too.
The overall ratings for the 2020 and 2021 diesels tested are relatively low. The "best" diesel on there, the Octavia has a overall rating of 3.5 stars which is exactly the same as the Yaris hybrid and the C-HR hybrid. Some of these modern diesels listed have a score of just 2 stars.
Additionally, the greenhouse score for diesels listed tends to be quite low too.
I agree, diesel needs to be banned as soon as possible. Newcastle brought in £50 a time fines for diesel buses entering the city and what do you know, we now have electric buses.
The fines were never even introduced due to Corona, but I assume the contracts for those buses were already signed, that was all it took, just the threat of a fine.
The fines were never even introduced due to Corona, but I assume the contracts for those buses were already signed, that was all it took, just the threat of a fine.
aestetix1 said:
Diesel produces a lot more nasty emissions that affect health too. They should start by banning diesels this year, except for certain commercial vehicles where there is no practical alternative yet.
Please show me an affordable 7 Seat EV or petrol. Petrol there are so few bought new meaning you only have diesel as a choice and actually driving them you don’t want to be singing high in the Rev range - it’s a people carrier not a hot hatch. Plus lugging 5+ adults dog and stuff means you do need grunt... what’s the solution ? Tesla Model X? Or a £5-15k S Max or Galaxy?Welshbeef said:
Please show me an affordable 7 Seat EV or petrol. Petrol there are so few bought new meaning you only have diesel as a choice and actually driving them you don’t want to be singing high in the Rev range - it’s a people carrier not a hot hatch. Plus lugging 5+ adults dog and stuff means you do need grunt... what’s the solution ? Tesla Model X? Or a £5-15k S Max or Galaxy?
I imported a petrol MPV from Japan, they realised diesel was bad 20+ years ago. ULEZ compliant, Honda reliability, enough go and space. Or for moving kids and dogs around locally, an env200 with seats is under £15k now.On Green NCAP, it's good there's some measurement there beyond WLTP (their test cycle is very similar, but at a more realistic temperature and vehicle load) but they separately measure energy efficiency and greenhouse gas emissions. The latest lot had some decent diesels doing well on energy efficiency over petrol hybrids, but far worse on emissions. Plug-in hybrids get tested on "charge sustain" mode (ie not using their battery) too.
Edited by sjg on Monday 15th March 14:11
Welshbeef said:
Please show me an affordable 7 Seat EV or petrol. Petrol there are so few bought new meaning you only have diesel as a choice and actually driving them you don’t want to be singing high in the Rev range - it’s a people carrier not a hot hatch. Plus lugging 5+ adults dog and stuff means you do need grunt... what’s the solution ? Tesla Model X? Or a £5-15k S Max or Galaxy?
That's a fantastic point and highlights that it's not as straightforward as just saying "let's ban diesel vehicles today" There have to be practical solutions. There are a lot of people who can't afford to "switch" to a vehicle that is more efficient and better for the environment and that will become even more prevalent once as unemployment rises.
Welshbeef said:
aestetix1 said:
Diesel produces a lot more nasty emissions that affect health too. They should start by banning diesels this year, except for certain commercial vehicles where there is no practical alternative yet.
Please show me an affordable 7 Seat EV or petrol. Petrol there are so few bought new meaning you only have diesel as a choice and actually driving them you don’t want to be singing high in the Rev range - it’s a people carrier not a hot hatch. Plus lugging 5+ adults dog and stuff means you do need grunt... what’s the solution ? Tesla Model X? Or a £5-15k S Max or Galaxy?
Obviously more diesel choice but hardly a rarity in petrol form?
IMO, hybrids (for economy, not supercars with hybrid tech to make them faster... that's just awesome and excluded from the next statement..) take the worst parts of ICE and EV ownership and club them together in what can only be described as a marketing ploy rather than an actual viable green alternative.
They are, when you strip it all away..
A tiny battery EV with no reasonable battery only range (and some you still have to plug in)
A tiny internal combustion engine which you still have to put fuel in, it still puts crap out the exhaust and generally gets worked harder than a larger engine only version.
ECO hybrids are for people who's brains melt at the thought of having to plan a journey to incorporate charging points, and they pay the price.
all in my opinion, of course.
They are, when you strip it all away..
A tiny battery EV with no reasonable battery only range (and some you still have to plug in)
A tiny internal combustion engine which you still have to put fuel in, it still puts crap out the exhaust and generally gets worked harder than a larger engine only version.
ECO hybrids are for people who's brains melt at the thought of having to plan a journey to incorporate charging points, and they pay the price.
all in my opinion, of course.
SWoll said:
Welshbeef said:
aestetix1 said:
Diesel produces a lot more nasty emissions that affect health too. They should start by banning diesels this year, except for certain commercial vehicles where there is no practical alternative yet.
Please show me an affordable 7 Seat EV or petrol. Petrol there are so few bought new meaning you only have diesel as a choice and actually driving them you don’t want to be singing high in the Rev range - it’s a people carrier not a hot hatch. Plus lugging 5+ adults dog and stuff means you do need grunt... what’s the solution ? Tesla Model X? Or a £5-15k S Max or Galaxy?Obviously more diesel choice but hardly a rarity in petrol form?
Every bus should already be electric.
If the complaint is about new diesel MPVs they’re mostly disappearing anyway as they fall out of fashion.
Galaxy and Smax won’t get replaced, but will get a hybrid version this year.
Espace is long gone from the UK market.
Alhambra is gone, Sharan nearly gone - no replacement model.
Citroen Grand c4 Picasso/spacetourer is clinging on but no direct replacement planned.
It’s going to be vans (PSA, Nissan, Mercedes are in there with electric passenger vans already) or SUVs in future if you need 7 seats.
Galaxy and Smax won’t get replaced, but will get a hybrid version this year.
Espace is long gone from the UK market.
Alhambra is gone, Sharan nearly gone - no replacement model.
Citroen Grand c4 Picasso/spacetourer is clinging on but no direct replacement planned.
It’s going to be vans (PSA, Nissan, Mercedes are in there with electric passenger vans already) or SUVs in future if you need 7 seats.
SWoll said:
Welshbeef said:
aestetix1 said:
Diesel produces a lot more nasty emissions that affect health too. They should start by banning diesels this year, except for certain commercial vehicles where there is no practical alternative yet.
Please show me an affordable 7 Seat EV or petrol. Petrol there are so few bought new meaning you only have diesel as a choice and actually driving them you don’t want to be singing high in the Rev range - it’s a people carrier not a hot hatch. Plus lugging 5+ adults dog and stuff means you do need grunt... what’s the solution ? Tesla Model X? Or a £5-15k S Max or Galaxy?Obviously more diesel choice but hardly a rarity in petrol form?
Outside of lockdown we frequently on weekends go on long trips to zoo beach national trust visit friends family and also on holidays.
Having 3 young children and having to sit and wait for 1 hour (if chargers are empty) for a charge is far from ideal
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