Infrastructure Preparation and Enforced Charging times
Discussion
Hello all,
So the wonder of electric cars… all well and good but is that daft t
t at Nr 10 doing anything to prepare?
Read recently the government is planning to introduce legislation banning car charging at peak times to protect the grid.. which I think is a sensible step forward. This only affects home charging and not charging stations.
Does anyone here know what else the government is actually doing to prepare for the massive increase in electricity usage on the next few years? Also as home heating is due to be electric only. I haven’t heard of any big plans to build more stations or beef up the infrastructure to carry more load??
So the wonder of electric cars… all well and good but is that daft t
t at Nr 10 doing anything to prepare?Read recently the government is planning to introduce legislation banning car charging at peak times to protect the grid.. which I think is a sensible step forward. This only affects home charging and not charging stations.
Does anyone here know what else the government is actually doing to prepare for the massive increase in electricity usage on the next few years? Also as home heating is due to be electric only. I haven’t heard of any big plans to build more stations or beef up the infrastructure to carry more load??
How would they know if you were charging your car or had the tumble dryer on?
On a side note it is funny how a lot of people on here have been saying for years there is no problem with the grid etc etc. Now it is looking like it will be a problem
I would like to apologise to everyone as this is probably all my fault, within one week of putting an order in for an EV the cost of electric has gone up and now it’s looking like they are going to restrict when you can charge your car at home. Next will be the £1500 a year road tax
On a side note it is funny how a lot of people on here have been saying for years there is no problem with the grid etc etc. Now it is looking like it will be a problem
I would like to apologise to everyone as this is probably all my fault, within one week of putting an order in for an EV the cost of electric has gone up and now it’s looking like they are going to restrict when you can charge your car at home. Next will be the £1500 a year road tax
You will still be able to over ride the home charger for an instant charge. This seems to have been missed out by many.
For a lot of people with EVs they already do restrict their charging to after midnight to take advantage of cheaper tariffs overnight. When the demand is lower on the grid.
For a lot of people with EVs they already do restrict their charging to after midnight to take advantage of cheaper tariffs overnight. When the demand is lower on the grid.
How many pumps in the UK for fuel....
How many cars....
do we overload the fuel stations ?
This fear of overloading the system is all about the media generating issues, how can they be sure that there is going to be problem if they do not really know what is happening ?
Is everyone going to be taking a full 400 mile charge every night. nope... most folks will be doing the plug in and topping up the few miles that they have used the car for that day. chargers will be intelligent and will 'know' what you are doing and your charge profile.
the whole electric charging model is going to be a lot better than what we have just now with fuel stations and mass runs for fuel. if we were well into the electric model do you think we would be having the massive panic with fuel like we are just now ?
How many cars....
do we overload the fuel stations ?
This fear of overloading the system is all about the media generating issues, how can they be sure that there is going to be problem if they do not really know what is happening ?
Is everyone going to be taking a full 400 mile charge every night. nope... most folks will be doing the plug in and topping up the few miles that they have used the car for that day. chargers will be intelligent and will 'know' what you are doing and your charge profile.
the whole electric charging model is going to be a lot better than what we have just now with fuel stations and mass runs for fuel. if we were well into the electric model do you think we would be having the massive panic with fuel like we are just now ?
Evanivitch said:
jackpe said:
Read recently the government is planning to introduce legislation banning car charging at peak times to protect the grid..
You didn't read that.This is why links and quotes are a great foundation for any discussion.
"As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be smart chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm. However, users of home chargers will be able to override the pre-sets should they need to, although it’s not clear how often they will be able to do that."
Not quite the same as banning charging during peak times just yet is it?
Just been doing some digging into this as TBH it wasn't on my radar at all, PH has let me down....
All the info seems to be here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
However, if someone has found some more, post it
Looks like you might be able to turn off the timing function permanently when the unit is first started.
None of this is actually set in stone yet though is it?
All the info seems to be here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
However, if someone has found some more, post it
Looks like you might be able to turn off the timing function permanently when the unit is first started.
None of this is actually set in stone yet though is it?
Edited by TheRainMaker on Sunday 3rd October 10:34
SWoll said:
Indeed.
"As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be smart chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm. However, users of home chargers will be able to override the pre-sets should they need to, although it’s not clear how often they will be able to do that."
Not quite the same as banning charging during peak times just yet is it?
Not quite the same but not far off either. And I think they will have to Introduce it and police it. There is no way that a grid designed for current energy usage is going to survive without changes once more cars go electric. Not to mention home heating and cooking. The proviso that users will be able to override the peak time pre-set comes with the big proviso of how many times a user will be allowed to do that."As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be smart chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm. However, users of home chargers will be able to override the pre-sets should they need to, although it’s not clear how often they will be able to do that."
Not quite the same as banning charging during peak times just yet is it?
In any case I’m not really trying to start a discussion on this particular issue.. I’m more interested in hearing if anyone knows what plans are in place to increase electricity production and to make the grid and infrastructure more robust so it can handle the increased demand.
Actually the grid is pretty good - we have been adopting low power kit now for years, a lot of our heavy industry has disappeared. the power issue isnt so much of an issue as its being made out.
Power transmittion can be upgraded across corridors at a national level. Something like increasing the voltage level on a line can bring about a significant increase in power transfer.
Looking at the regional and residential levels addittional ties and more transformers would provide increased availability across an area, so no power isnt going to be a huge issue.
chargers will be integrated and your smart meter will also be linked into the distribution, We will also see i believe more domestic distribution boards with some level of intelligence.
integration of the power network and smartifying it will remove a lot of any fear of maxing out the system.
Power transmittion can be upgraded across corridors at a national level. Something like increasing the voltage level on a line can bring about a significant increase in power transfer.
Looking at the regional and residential levels addittional ties and more transformers would provide increased availability across an area, so no power isnt going to be a huge issue.
chargers will be integrated and your smart meter will also be linked into the distribution, We will also see i believe more domestic distribution boards with some level of intelligence.
integration of the power network and smartifying it will remove a lot of any fear of maxing out the system.
jackpe said:
Not quite the same but not far off either. And I think they will have to Introduce it and police it. There is no way that a grid designed for current energy usage is going to survive without changes once more cars go electric. Not to mention home heating and cooking. The proviso that users will be able to override the peak time pre-set comes with the big proviso of how many times a user will be allowed to do that.
In any case I’m not really trying to start a discussion on this particular issue.. I’m more interested in hearing if anyone knows what plans are in place to increase electricity production and to make the grid and infrastructure more robust so it can handle the increased demand.
There won't be any need to police it for enforce it. Most people will schedule their charging to be off-peak anyway, simply because it costs less.In any case I’m not really trying to start a discussion on this particular issue.. I’m more interested in hearing if anyone knows what plans are in place to increase electricity production and to make the grid and infrastructure more robust so it can handle the increased demand.
Most people don't do hundreds of miles a day, and if they do they will probably use a rapid charger en-route, not decide that they need to sit on an AC charger for 8 hours during the day.
All they are doing here is putting a 10mm high barrier in place for people who are too lazy to set up a schedule, on the assumption that they will be too lazy to overcome it too.
Imagine there were two fuel stations, one on the left side of a road, and one immediately opposite.
They both sell exactly the same fuel, except the one of the right sells it for roughly half price. Now tell me why you'd use the one on the left to fill up your car?
There is really only one reason, namely you can't for some reason fill up at the one of the right.
"limiting" of peak rate charging might well be a thing, but it's a safety net, not a requirement, because pure capitalism is actually in control of the market.......
What is more important, but often missed, is that "smart charging" is an enabler to energy sharing. ie, your car is full because today you only nipped half a mile down the road to the post office, whereas, Bob, your neighbour, just got back from his twice weekly buisness trip to London, and has an empty battery. You only need to go 5 miles tomorrow to drop the kids off at school, so you put your charger into "export above x pence per kwh" mode, and Bob, who needs that energy, can simply take it from your car. You make money, because you bought at 8p/kWh and you're selling at 26p/kWh.. Bobs happy because he can get his miles done, you're happy because you've made some money selling energy you didn't need.
Now consider a system, not just with you and Bob, but say 30 million other car users, all with as much as 100 kWh of energy sat outside on their drive......
They both sell exactly the same fuel, except the one of the right sells it for roughly half price. Now tell me why you'd use the one on the left to fill up your car?
There is really only one reason, namely you can't for some reason fill up at the one of the right.
"limiting" of peak rate charging might well be a thing, but it's a safety net, not a requirement, because pure capitalism is actually in control of the market.......
What is more important, but often missed, is that "smart charging" is an enabler to energy sharing. ie, your car is full because today you only nipped half a mile down the road to the post office, whereas, Bob, your neighbour, just got back from his twice weekly buisness trip to London, and has an empty battery. You only need to go 5 miles tomorrow to drop the kids off at school, so you put your charger into "export above x pence per kwh" mode, and Bob, who needs that energy, can simply take it from your car. You make money, because you bought at 8p/kWh and you're selling at 26p/kWh.. Bobs happy because he can get his miles done, you're happy because you've made some money selling energy you didn't need.
Now consider a system, not just with you and Bob, but say 30 million other car users, all with as much as 100 kWh of energy sat outside on their drive......
jackpe said:
SWoll said:
Indeed.
"As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be smart chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm. However, users of home chargers will be able to override the pre-sets should they need to, although it’s not clear how often they will be able to do that."
Not quite the same as banning charging during peak times just yet is it?
Not quite the same but not far off either. And I think they will have to Introduce it and police it. There is no way that a grid designed for current energy usage is going to survive without changes once more cars go electric. Not to mention home heating and cooking. The proviso that users will be able to override the peak time pre-set comes with the big proviso of how many times a user will be allowed to do that."As of May 30, 2022, new home and workplace chargers being installed must be smart chargers connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets limiting their ability to function from 8 am to 11 am and 4 pm to 10 pm. However, users of home chargers will be able to override the pre-sets should they need to, although it’s not clear how often they will be able to do that."
Not quite the same as banning charging during peak times just yet is it?
In any case I’m not really trying to start a discussion on this particular issue.. I’m more interested in hearing if anyone knows what plans are in place to increase electricity production and to make the grid and infrastructure more robust so it can handle the increased demand.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
There are some interesting contributions from folk who work in various areas of the industry.
jackpe said:
Not quite the same but not far off either. And I think they will have to Introduce it and police it.
Once everyone has smart meters they can just let supply and demand solve the problem - if electricity during the day costs twice as expensive as electricity at night, the vast majority of people will charge at night. Heating is going to be far more of an issue, because not only do we consume several times more energy for domestic heating than private cars, but it will also be harder to adjust to only using heating when demand is otherwise low.
Smart metering will become significantly more smart both to allow car/home to grid and to allow differential pricing for each usage class. So not just general time of day usage but class of usage.
New builds will gain this level of metering functionality by default whilst it'll be left to householders and/or utilities to upgrade existing installations. Much of the base functionality is present in smart meters already it just requires more holistic approach to usage and deployment.
Electricity providers may use pricing to inventivise such upgrade work, either stick or carrot.
New builds will gain this level of metering functionality by default whilst it'll be left to householders and/or utilities to upgrade existing installations. Much of the base functionality is present in smart meters already it just requires more holistic approach to usage and deployment.
Electricity providers may use pricing to inventivise such upgrade work, either stick or carrot.
CynicalHotTake said:
sociopath said:
If they restrict charging how will they deal with shift workers?
Poor people don't matter.Of course, the Tories don't care.
aestetix1 said:
Sadly this is the truth. Homes without the capability to charge overnight will quickly become far less desirable than those with it, as owning one will bring the additional cost of having to pay for public charging or rely on your employer.
Of course, the Tories don't care.
Homes without off-street parking were already less desirable. The inconvenience of finding a parking spot. Potentially higher insurance costs. Issues for people with mobility problems not parking close to home. Issues with getting children in and out of cars.Of course, the Tories don't care.
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