Range anxiety with EVs?
Discussion
I still find the idea of an EV quite attractive, but wondered how those that already have them, deal with range anxiety,
Not just in the full charge -to getting to a destination sense, but in what happens when EV`s find themselves stuck in a long traffic jam, and with a relatively low range, being indicated by the vehicles electronics.
Not so bad in the summer (unless air conditioning is being used), and certainly no worse than being stuck in a traffic jam in an ICE vehicle with a low fuel level.
But the key difference, seems to be that an ICE vehicle can be refueled in minutes, at the next service station, or even in seconds, if an emergency fuel can is used to get the vehicle back on its way.
An EV will require a significantly longer period, in which to receive even a flash charge,, and significantly longer to receive a full charge, but what happens if an EV runs out of power whilst in the traffic jam? Can an EV be towed for example without damaging the motor, transmission or batteries?
This question is a genuine one, and was prompted after I visited a motorway service station to get some lunch. I was sitting in my car munching away, and watched a man come out of the services area, unplug his Tesla, and drive away. No problem one would think, but the next second, four EV`s dived for the now vacant charging bay, after which an argument broke out between the drivers, as to which one had been waiting longest to access the bay.
Not so much a problem at the moment, but as more, and more EV`s are expected to be on the roads, unless a massive increase in the number of charge points is put in place in a `very' short time, it seems that in the short term at least, accessing a charge point to carry out an EV journey in a `reasonable time, could be problematic.
Any thoughts on what actually happens when driving an EV would be welcome.
Not just in the full charge -to getting to a destination sense, but in what happens when EV`s find themselves stuck in a long traffic jam, and with a relatively low range, being indicated by the vehicles electronics.
Not so bad in the summer (unless air conditioning is being used), and certainly no worse than being stuck in a traffic jam in an ICE vehicle with a low fuel level.
But the key difference, seems to be that an ICE vehicle can be refueled in minutes, at the next service station, or even in seconds, if an emergency fuel can is used to get the vehicle back on its way.
An EV will require a significantly longer period, in which to receive even a flash charge,, and significantly longer to receive a full charge, but what happens if an EV runs out of power whilst in the traffic jam? Can an EV be towed for example without damaging the motor, transmission or batteries?
This question is a genuine one, and was prompted after I visited a motorway service station to get some lunch. I was sitting in my car munching away, and watched a man come out of the services area, unplug his Tesla, and drive away. No problem one would think, but the next second, four EV`s dived for the now vacant charging bay, after which an argument broke out between the drivers, as to which one had been waiting longest to access the bay.
Not so much a problem at the moment, but as more, and more EV`s are expected to be on the roads, unless a massive increase in the number of charge points is put in place in a `very' short time, it seems that in the short term at least, accessing a charge point to carry out an EV journey in a `reasonable time, could be problematic.
Any thoughts on what actually happens when driving an EV would be welcome.
Pan Pan Pan said:
but in what happens when EV`s find themselves stuck in a long traffic jam, and with a relatively low range, being indicated by the vehicles electronics.
Not so bad in the summer (unless air conditioning is being used), and certainly no worse than being stuck in a traffic jam in an ICE vehicle with a low fuel level.
An EV uses almost no power when not moving. You can sit in a traffic jam pretty much indefinitely without losing any range. Not so bad in the summer (unless air conditioning is being used), and certainly no worse than being stuck in a traffic jam in an ICE vehicle with a low fuel level.
Even with our s
tty, ancient Leaf with a max range of about 100 miles, it is no big deal. I regularly do round trips that take it to its limits. If I'm going to run out of juice I'll pull in somewhere with a 50kW chademo charger, and after 5 or 10 mins I'll easily have enough charge to complete the journey.
tty, ancient Leaf with a max range of about 100 miles, it is no big deal. I regularly do round trips that take it to its limits. If I'm going to run out of juice I'll pull in somewhere with a 50kW chademo charger, and after 5 or 10 mins I'll easily have enough charge to complete the journey.ATG said:
Even with our stty, ancient Leaf with a max range of about 100 miles, it is no big deal. I regularly do round trips that take it to its limits. If I'm going to run out of juice I'll pull in somewhere with a 50kW chademo charger, and after 5 or 10 mins I'll easily have enough charge to complete the journey.
Whilst I agree, it can be bloody stressful in certain circumstance. We went from Herts to Bristol airport to fly off on holiday in my 30kw Leaf. First 2 chargers wouldn't work, got into one in Bristol on "fumes". In an ICE I would think 2.5 hours total journey time, over 4 hours with all the faffing about in the Leaf. Under pressure to get to the airport in time so we don't miss the flight. tty, ancient Leaf with a max range of about 100 miles, it is no big deal. I regularly do round trips that take it to its limits. If I'm going to run out of juice I'll pull in somewhere with a 50kW chademo charger, and after 5 or 10 mins I'll easily have enough charge to complete the journey.I only use the Leaf for local stuff unless there is no time pressure.
Back in August I did a trackday in my 160 mile range EV at Llandow that is abut 120 miles hundred miles from home. I was quite worried about how I was going to charge but had found from the charging apps that there were plenty of chargers within 15 miles of the track including a pair of rapid chargers at nearby Macdonalds, I arrived 30 mins early, fully charged the car while I had my Mcbreakfast, came back at lunchtime and charged again whilst I ate then did another 20 mins on the way home. It needs a bit of thought to have some alternates handy but its not much more faff to find a charger out in the sticks than it was to find the super unleaded my TVR used to demand. Incidentally I realised afterwards that there is a caravan park next to the track so with a bit of negotiation i could have plugged into a caravan hookup, I now carry the adaptor to do this.
I have done 97k miles in 3.5 years in a Renault Zoe with a realistic range of 150 miles, I have had very few issues and have only had serious range anxiety once when I got home with less than zero percent due to a combination of a faulty charger and my wife not charging the car enough.
Pan Pan Pan said:
I still find the idea of an EV quite attractive, but wondered how those that already have them, deal with range anxiety,
Not just in the full charge -to getting to a destination sense, but in what happens when EV`s find themselves stuck in a long traffic jam, and with a relatively low range, being indicated by the vehicles electronics.
Not so bad in the summer (unless air conditioning is being used), and certainly no worse than being stuck in a traffic jam in an ICE vehicle with a low fuel level.
But the key difference, seems to be that an ICE vehicle can be refueled in minutes, at the next service station, or even in seconds, if an emergency fuel can is used to get the vehicle back on its way.
An EV will require a significantly longer period, in which to receive even a flash charge,, and significantly longer to receive a full charge, but what happens if an EV runs out of power whilst in the traffic jam? Can an EV be towed for example without damaging the motor, transmission or batteries?
This question is a genuine one, and was prompted after I visited a motorway service station to get some lunch. I was sitting in my car munching away, and watched a man come out of the services area, unplug his Tesla, and drive away. No problem one would think, but the next second, four EV`s dived for the now vacant charging bay, after which an argument broke out between the drivers, as to which one had been waiting longest to access the bay.
Not so much a problem at the moment, but as more, and more EV`s are expected to be on the roads, unless a massive increase in the number of charge points is put in place in a `very' short time, it seems that in the short term at least, accessing a charge point to carry out an EV journey in a `reasonable time, could be problematic.
Any thoughts on what actually happens when driving an EV would be welcome.
You are reaching that conclusion based upon observing demand at one EV charging point? Not just in the full charge -to getting to a destination sense, but in what happens when EV`s find themselves stuck in a long traffic jam, and with a relatively low range, being indicated by the vehicles electronics.
Not so bad in the summer (unless air conditioning is being used), and certainly no worse than being stuck in a traffic jam in an ICE vehicle with a low fuel level.
But the key difference, seems to be that an ICE vehicle can be refueled in minutes, at the next service station, or even in seconds, if an emergency fuel can is used to get the vehicle back on its way.
An EV will require a significantly longer period, in which to receive even a flash charge,, and significantly longer to receive a full charge, but what happens if an EV runs out of power whilst in the traffic jam? Can an EV be towed for example without damaging the motor, transmission or batteries?
This question is a genuine one, and was prompted after I visited a motorway service station to get some lunch. I was sitting in my car munching away, and watched a man come out of the services area, unplug his Tesla, and drive away. No problem one would think, but the next second, four EV`s dived for the now vacant charging bay, after which an argument broke out between the drivers, as to which one had been waiting longest to access the bay.
Not so much a problem at the moment, but as more, and more EV`s are expected to be on the roads, unless a massive increase in the number of charge points is put in place in a `very' short time, it seems that in the short term at least, accessing a charge point to carry out an EV journey in a `reasonable time, could be problematic.
Any thoughts on what actually happens when driving an EV would be welcome.
First of all, whilst sales of new EVs are increasing, they still make up a tiny proportion of cars on our roads and we are not going to have millions and millions of them on our roads for a LONG time.
So we don't need to have a massive increase in charge points in a very short time.
Yes, there needs to be greater momentum on installing charging points, but that's over the long term, there is no need to panic today.
Charging infrastructure will vary around the country (some have invested, some have not), so getting an EV needs to take into account where you live and where you drive to/from.
I live in the suburbs of London, and within 1.5 miles of me, there are charge points galore, with more being added every few months. I've occasionly seen a car waiting (usually an Uber driver at end of day when shift finished) for a rapid charge point to be available, but generally, there are no queues of people waiting/fighting to get charged.
If you're that anxious about running out of charge before you've arrived at your destination, the RAC has vans that can give your EV a booster charge in minutes, so that you can get to the nearest rapid charge point
https://www.rac.co.uk/innovation/ev-boost
Even if they have to recover your broken down EV, they have vans that can lift all four wheels off the ground, protecting the battery and motors https://www.rac.co.uk/breakdown-cover/electric-car...
Am six years and 62,000 electric miles done now. And I would say that the number of chargers near where I live is totally irrelevant to me as I charge at home. I do quite a lot (30 or so) 300+ miles in a day runs a year. It’s mostly ok but I have noticed that the chargers are getting much busier this year, with many more EVs on the road - probably two thirds of my public charges I have either had to go elsewhere because the charger was in use or had people queueing behind me. I don’t know if it is going to get much better or much worse in the next three to four years - there are lots of new chargers planned (though not sure how many in mid wales and Scottish Borders for my daughters university trips to Aberystwyth and Edinburgh which have poor charging for the last half of the journey) but increasing EV sales mean a lot of competition for chargers
Pan Pan Pan said:
I still find the idea of an EV quite attractive, but wondered how those that already have them, deal with range anxiety,
Not just in the full charge -to getting to a destination sense, but in what happens when EV`s find themselves stuck in a long traffic jam, and with a relatively low range, being indicated by the vehicles electronics.
Not so bad in the summer (unless air conditioning is being used), and certainly no worse than being stuck in a traffic jam in an ICE vehicle with a low fuel level.
But the key difference, seems to be that an ICE vehicle can be refueled in minutes, at the next service station, or even in seconds, if an emergency fuel can is used to get the vehicle back on its way.
An EV will require a significantly longer period, in which to receive even a flash charge,, and significantly longer to receive a full charge, but what happens if an EV runs out of power whilst in the traffic jam? Can an EV be towed for example without damaging the motor, transmission or batteries?
This question is a genuine one, and was prompted after I visited a motorway service station to get some lunch. I was sitting in my car munching away, and watched a man come out of the services area, unplug his Tesla, and drive away. No problem one would think, but the next second, four EV`s dived for the now vacant charging bay, after which an argument broke out between the drivers, as to which one had been waiting longest to access the bay.
Not so much a problem at the moment, but as more, and more EV`s are expected to be on the roads, unless a massive increase in the number of charge points is put in place in a `very' short time, it seems that in the short term at least, accessing a charge point to carry out an EV journey in a `reasonable time, could be problematic.
Any thoughts on what actually happens when driving an EV would be welcome.
A couple of observations (and my experience is significantly less than others here) but range anxiety is valid, but diminishes over time. It’s there, and certainly more than with an ICE car, but it does drop down and I rarely think about it now. Not just in the full charge -to getting to a destination sense, but in what happens when EV`s find themselves stuck in a long traffic jam, and with a relatively low range, being indicated by the vehicles electronics.
Not so bad in the summer (unless air conditioning is being used), and certainly no worse than being stuck in a traffic jam in an ICE vehicle with a low fuel level.
But the key difference, seems to be that an ICE vehicle can be refueled in minutes, at the next service station, or even in seconds, if an emergency fuel can is used to get the vehicle back on its way.
An EV will require a significantly longer period, in which to receive even a flash charge,, and significantly longer to receive a full charge, but what happens if an EV runs out of power whilst in the traffic jam? Can an EV be towed for example without damaging the motor, transmission or batteries?
This question is a genuine one, and was prompted after I visited a motorway service station to get some lunch. I was sitting in my car munching away, and watched a man come out of the services area, unplug his Tesla, and drive away. No problem one would think, but the next second, four EV`s dived for the now vacant charging bay, after which an argument broke out between the drivers, as to which one had been waiting longest to access the bay.
Not so much a problem at the moment, but as more, and more EV`s are expected to be on the roads, unless a massive increase in the number of charge points is put in place in a `very' short time, it seems that in the short term at least, accessing a charge point to carry out an EV journey in a `reasonable time, could be problematic.
Any thoughts on what actually happens when driving an EV would be welcome.
First off, a couple of myths. EV’s are super efficient in and around town, compared to ICE equivalents. Yes the mile per kWh drops, but their battery usage is based on draw, not idle. Trundle around town in rush hour and the actual consumption is very low, and when stopped you are running the base systems, not having to have an engine idle. Got stuck for 20 mins in stationary traffic once while it was hot outside (AC on high). Yes the battery dropped slightly but less than an equivalent ICE car and the range picked up again once I was on the move. While not fun, it was nice to not have that vibration going on! So that’s town stuff done.
The biggest thing I had to get my head around was the “fill up” mentality. While you can charge to 100%, it takes time and can take planning if you are on a slow charger. So don’t. Just charge to just above what you need and go from there. And charging efficiency drops above 80% anyway, so save your pennies and time! Don’t do it. Yes, you charge more often, but it’s a 20 second thing if you have charging at home or work. And suddenly you don’t need to stop every other day for 10 mins to fill up!!! It’s such a small thing, but it’s really liberating. A quick example, my wife is doing some “speciality shopping” (yeah, weird huh?) today and has around 6 stores to go to. Took the Macan, but with only 60 miles range she will have to fill up. So it’s an extra 10 mins to plan around. So get up even earlier and fill up before you go? Or try and grab a stop while driving between places? Or try and plan to find the cheapest fuel at some point? Yeah, not a big thing, but hassle. With an EV, just pop it on charge the night before and you are good to go. Like I said, small thing but really nice.
Can you recover a car with a dead battery? Yes. All manufacturers build in some extra capacity for this purpose. Usually just enough to get you off the road and some crippled speed. Most will power on at least and will have a way to take the hand brake off and put it in neutral. You have to be able to move it, and it’s quite easy.
And finally availability of charging. Yes, it’s fair to be concerned and assholes will be assholes, so expect them to do crappy things. Happens with all types of car, so expect it to happen with an EV. Since the vast amount of charging will be done at home (which I accept is not available to many people - but that’s a different problem) dependence on the public charging system is reduced. So it shouldn’t be an issue, or if it is, it should be a rare issue. There is a level of planning needed to run an EV for longer distances, there are tools, apps and even inbuilt systems that can help here. Sure, you might have to go out of your way slightly, but it’s rarely a big issue.
I had an EV for 12 months and 12k miles. Only charged twice at a public charger and both times were a nightmare! Both unreliable and over complicated chargers and the location were off the route. Add two young kids, nothing to do, and a 50kw charger with a 30min wait it’s a change of behaviours and sacrificing practicality too far!
With PHEVs like the new merc c class with greater than 50mile range coming on the market, i think these bring a realistic and practical solution to deliver more than 80% electric driving for most folk without the issues associated with charging on the move.
With PHEVs like the new merc c class with greater than 50mile range coming on the market, i think these bring a realistic and practical solution to deliver more than 80% electric driving for most folk without the issues associated with charging on the move.
(Aberystwyth has a lot of charging points.)
There was a bit of fisting around required to figure out how to charge the thing the first couple of times I tried recharging when out and about, and the need to install mobile phone apps, set up passwords etc is the most spectacular design fail and the engineers deserve to be paraded in front of the general public before being shot. But, the need for murder aside, once you've figured out what needs doing, it is no big deal. I've never had to queue, and the technical fails of some of the infrastructure can often be sorted in a minute or two by telephoning Muppet Force to tell them that their machine needs a reboot or by just pushing The Big Red Button on the front of the machine and waiting for it to sort it's own life out. Script kiddies versus embedded systems software engineers; discuss.
Bottom line, once you've done it a few times you build confidence that you can get it to work, ergo no anxiety.
But as others have already said, the huge benefit is home charging; in reality we almost never have to charge the thing when out and about. In reality our diesels spend a hell of a lot more time on petrol station forecourts than the Leaf ever does.
There was a bit of fisting around required to figure out how to charge the thing the first couple of times I tried recharging when out and about, and the need to install mobile phone apps, set up passwords etc is the most spectacular design fail and the engineers deserve to be paraded in front of the general public before being shot. But, the need for murder aside, once you've figured out what needs doing, it is no big deal. I've never had to queue, and the technical fails of some of the infrastructure can often be sorted in a minute or two by telephoning Muppet Force to tell them that their machine needs a reboot or by just pushing The Big Red Button on the front of the machine and waiting for it to sort it's own life out. Script kiddies versus embedded systems software engineers; discuss.
Bottom line, once you've done it a few times you build confidence that you can get it to work, ergo no anxiety.
But as others have already said, the huge benefit is home charging; in reality we almost never have to charge the thing when out and about. In reality our diesels spend a hell of a lot more time on petrol station forecourts than the Leaf ever does.
The Spruce Goose said:
page3 said:
An EV uses almost no power when not moving. You can sit in a traffic jam pretty much indefinitely without losing any range.
What about in the winter?Knock_knock said:
I sit in my eNiro for an hour at a time while kids do evening activities. In January temperatures I was seeing 1% (maybe 2% occasionally) use per hour. So not really anything very exciting.
i guess it depends how cold it is, and considering the UK climate, what is a heater 2kw an hour?The Spruce Goose said:
Knock_knock said:
I sit in my eNiro for an hour at a time while kids do evening activities. In January temperatures I was seeing 1% (maybe 2% occasionally) use per hour. So not really anything very exciting.
i guess it depends how cold it is, and considering the UK climate, what is a heater 2kw an hour?Like many/most EV's the eNiro has a heat pump so once up to temperature it doesn't generally draw much - maybe 500w.
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