EVs that just run out?
Discussion
I've read several stories, some alleged to be personal experience, of EVs that 'just ran out of power' on the road, and of a Tesla that blocked the exit from a multistorage car park, to the annoyance of many.
When I also read of the range anxiety of EV owners, frantic to find a charge point while on a journey, as the remaining miles count down, what warning does an EV owner get of impending failure? If they allow their car to 'just stop' for lack of battery power, are they the victim of a faulty EV, unobservant or just half-witted?
Noting the actions of many 'road-users' I encounter, I fear it is the last.
John
When I also read of the range anxiety of EV owners, frantic to find a charge point while on a journey, as the remaining miles count down, what warning does an EV owner get of impending failure? If they allow their car to 'just stop' for lack of battery power, are they the victim of a faulty EV, unobservant or just half-witted?
Noting the actions of many 'road-users' I encounter, I fear it is the last.
John
My wife's e-Golf goes through multiple phases of warning:
31miles range warning pops up on the dash and limits to 75mph
~11miles second warning and limits to 59mph and restricts climate control (i think it just turns off the A/C part)
~6miles tortoise pops up, 31mph limit and turns off all climate.
So in summary, you'd have to deliberately be ignoring it to actually stop somewhere really awkward.
31miles range warning pops up on the dash and limits to 75mph
~11miles second warning and limits to 59mph and restricts climate control (i think it just turns off the A/C part)
~6miles tortoise pops up, 31mph limit and turns off all climate.
So in summary, you'd have to deliberately be ignoring it to actually stop somewhere really awkward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH7V2tU3iFc
That will give you a good idea what happens.
Basically, lots and lots of warnings and warnings.
That will give you a good idea what happens.
Basically, lots and lots of warnings and warnings.
I tend to find EVs are quite accurate with remaining percentage even if not with the miles prediction so I’ve quite often arrived home or at a charger with 3% left kind of thing. So I’m finding it a bit odd that people would be taken by surprise, particularly with the number of warnings that will precede this. Most/all EVs also have a buffer below 0 so you can keep going for a while before it cuts out.
Temperature changes mske a big difference where the amount of available energy varies depending how cold a car is. Park a warm car with 10% range left and by morning it might be all but empty. Not all cars have a buffer either - some claim they do, some proibably do, but equally some have been known to run out with a positive number still showing. In my experience any buffer tends to to be the BMS erring on the pessimistic side to avoid the issue - but of course being pessimistic means its also reporting you have less than you thought you should have. When range is king, having a secretly tucked away extra 10 miles of range below zero just seems a waste of a marketing opportunity.
In use the cars do go through a phase of warnings and reduced power. The car park incident recently was in reality just a stupid driver, there were chargers on the ground floor which they decided to ignore, and in general petrol stations aren't on the top floor of a multiply story car park otherwise you'd probably get the same issues with those. But that driver absolutely knew they were in trouble before they started to try and climb that ramp and yo9u can't excuse people for being idiots.
In use the cars do go through a phase of warnings and reduced power. The car park incident recently was in reality just a stupid driver, there were chargers on the ground floor which they decided to ignore, and in general petrol stations aren't on the top floor of a multiply story car park otherwise you'd probably get the same issues with those. But that driver absolutely knew they were in trouble before they started to try and climb that ramp and yo9u can't excuse people for being idiots.
Zarco said:
Is it not just like playing fuel light roulette? Eventually you stretch it too far and run out of juice.
no, because frequently running below 10% SoC is not good for battery healthEV charging is a different mindset to liquid refuelling, with home charging its so convenient taking less than 30 seconds to plug in
I could if hypermiling and starting at 100% SoC in theory do all 15 hours of my weekly commute on a single charge, I actually charge every other day as this fills the car completely with my off-peak discounted rate and means i always have 100+ miles for an emergency
plfrench said:
My wife's e-Golf goes through multiple phases of warning:
31miles range warning pops up on the dash and limits to 75mph
~11miles second warning and limits to 59mph and restricts climate control (i think it just turns off the A/C part)
~6miles tortoise pops up, 31mph limit and turns off all climate.
So in summary, you'd have to deliberately be ignoring it to actually stop somewhere really awkward.
Yep, I’ve run it down a couple of times. You can still go a couple of miles slowly once you get dashes rather than miles remaining. All the restrictions mean you should definitely be able to make the remaining range shown. 31miles range warning pops up on the dash and limits to 75mph
~11miles second warning and limits to 59mph and restricts climate control (i think it just turns off the A/C part)
~6miles tortoise pops up, 31mph limit and turns off all climate.
So in summary, you'd have to deliberately be ignoring it to actually stop somewhere really awkward.
I always encourage anyone with an EV to run it really low (safely) just to see what happens and get familiar with how much is really left. They tend to be quite conservative and still give plenty of crawling power long after it says it’s empty.
People have always pushed it and come unstuck, hundreds of thousands of incidents per year of people running out of fuel and needing recovery.
DMZ said:
I tend to find EVs are quite accurate with remaining percentage even if not with the miles prediction so I’ve quite often arrived home or at a charger with 3% left kind of thing. So I’m finding it a bit odd that people would be taken by surprise, particularly with the number of warnings that will precede this. Most/all EVs also have a buffer below 0 so you can keep going for a while before it cuts out.
Aboslutely this, personal experience with mine, it is incredibly accurate compared with the days of ICE. None of the 50 miles range, then 10 then nothing, it really is a percentage countdown. To the point that after 6 months of ownership, being in the last 5% with 10 miles to go, no longer worries me, it just doesnt suddenly vanish.Lots of warnings - key the destination in NAV, if its close, it will warn you and suggest places to stop, once you get around the 10% mark, it starts bonging and cutting power, below 5%, more warnings start appearing. Never gone sub-zero. It would probably explode / catch fire / £10k replacement battery pack....
You'd have to be pretty inept to be taken by surprise, and probably shouldnt be driving if you find this happens to you on regular basis.
Sadly there are a look of utter cretins who have driving licences. To be fair, you do get into a different frame of thinking when using an EV. You dont need to charge to 100% constantly. You do need to be aware of range, but are less concerned about letting it drop to 20% or lower. Etc etc. Its just a different way of thinking because the easy availability of a full charge takes time. But thats OK and in general, the GOM range is usually pretty accurate.
Does this mean that EV's are more likely to run out of power? I dont think do. Every EV that I know of or have used, you really need to try to get it to go to zero. Multiple warnings, features getting turned off, constant warning messages and ultimately a reduction in power - you really have to try to get it to zero! And some manufacturers leave a pretty big margin too - just take a look at the Carwow videos where they tried to get a bunch of EV's to zero - took serious commitment!
The same is true for an ICE too, though less of the warning messages etc. A modern ICE car is going to bong a lot, give you warnings and, depending on the model, even blank out some of the screen with big messages! I would argue that no one should run out of fuel or range, because the damn car is going to tell you well in advance! You have to be pretty foolish to run out of fuel / power and in my view irresponsible too!
The difference with an EV is that getting a quick blast of charge isnt quite so easy as ducking into a fuel stop, hence the increased warning. But thats the only difference. I saw the news thing about some Tesla blocking a supermarket the other day. And given my understanding of how that works, that muppet ran for miles and miles AFTER the car was freaking out. After it was running on reduced power and after the screen would have alerted them massively to it. I am happy to point out Tesla's failures where relevant, but running out of charge isnt one of them (they do better than most others), so that moron was able to completely ignore the issue and continue driving. Seriously, why wouldnt you just pull to the side of the road when it drops to a max 20MPH speed? Why would you then continue to drive with the thing bonging at you constantly? Why would you do that?
Does this mean that EV's are more likely to run out of power? I dont think do. Every EV that I know of or have used, you really need to try to get it to go to zero. Multiple warnings, features getting turned off, constant warning messages and ultimately a reduction in power - you really have to try to get it to zero! And some manufacturers leave a pretty big margin too - just take a look at the Carwow videos where they tried to get a bunch of EV's to zero - took serious commitment!
The same is true for an ICE too, though less of the warning messages etc. A modern ICE car is going to bong a lot, give you warnings and, depending on the model, even blank out some of the screen with big messages! I would argue that no one should run out of fuel or range, because the damn car is going to tell you well in advance! You have to be pretty foolish to run out of fuel / power and in my view irresponsible too!
The difference with an EV is that getting a quick blast of charge isnt quite so easy as ducking into a fuel stop, hence the increased warning. But thats the only difference. I saw the news thing about some Tesla blocking a supermarket the other day. And given my understanding of how that works, that muppet ran for miles and miles AFTER the car was freaking out. After it was running on reduced power and after the screen would have alerted them massively to it. I am happy to point out Tesla's failures where relevant, but running out of charge isnt one of them (they do better than most others), so that moron was able to completely ignore the issue and continue driving. Seriously, why wouldnt you just pull to the side of the road when it drops to a max 20MPH speed? Why would you then continue to drive with the thing bonging at you constantly? Why would you do that?
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