Would an EV work for me?
Discussion
Folks,
Starting to seriously consider the economics of it.
I have a 50 mile round trip along a s
te A road. Driveway at home, and chargers at work (not sure of cost).
So, about 12000 miles a year. Currently run an E class which owes me about £5k. I average about 37mpg (diesel) since the route to work isn’t really an eco friendly route.
I’m hoping my second year with this car will be slightly cheaper, I’ve spent over 2000 sorting various jobs this year and it’s playing on my mind a bit.
The only issue is that I’d want a decent electric car, not just a Leaf or similar eco box. Like the look of the Ioniq 5, or maybe a Tesla.
Could I make it work on a good lease deal?
Starting to seriously consider the economics of it.
I have a 50 mile round trip along a s
te A road. Driveway at home, and chargers at work (not sure of cost).So, about 12000 miles a year. Currently run an E class which owes me about £5k. I average about 37mpg (diesel) since the route to work isn’t really an eco friendly route.
I’m hoping my second year with this car will be slightly cheaper, I’ve spent over 2000 sorting various jobs this year and it’s playing on my mind a bit.
The only issue is that I’d want a decent electric car, not just a Leaf or similar eco box. Like the look of the Ioniq 5, or maybe a Tesla.
Could I make it work on a good lease deal?
Depreciation is still the biggest cost of a car. EVs are having a purple patch if you buy yourself as depreciation is low and some even get back more than they paid. An EV that doesn’t is obviously cheap to run
However if you lease then that cost needs to be covered. EVs are cheaper to run (excluding depreciation or lease costs) but they’re not free, as a rough estimate I recon they’re about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost. Your 12k miles at 40mpg and £6 a gallon (to makes the maths easier) is about £1800 a year in fuel, an EV is £450, a saving of just over £100 a month. Not sure you’d get a decent EV for that much more than you’re paying. Even if you managed to charge for free and didn’t service the car, you might only get to £175 a month lower running costs before lease/finance costs.
Company car might be another option, but EVs only really make financial sense if you’d normally be running a 2-3 year old fairly decent car or you do high mileages. A £5k car doing 40mpg isn’t going to costing much to run in comparison.
However if you lease then that cost needs to be covered. EVs are cheaper to run (excluding depreciation or lease costs) but they’re not free, as a rough estimate I recon they’re about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost. Your 12k miles at 40mpg and £6 a gallon (to makes the maths easier) is about £1800 a year in fuel, an EV is £450, a saving of just over £100 a month. Not sure you’d get a decent EV for that much more than you’re paying. Even if you managed to charge for free and didn’t service the car, you might only get to £175 a month lower running costs before lease/finance costs.
Company car might be another option, but EVs only really make financial sense if you’d normally be running a 2-3 year old fairly decent car or you do high mileages. A £5k car doing 40mpg isn’t going to costing much to run in comparison.
Heres Johnny said:
Depreciation is still the biggest cost of a car. EVs are having a purple patch if you buy yourself as depreciation is low and some even get back more than they paid. An EV that doesn’t is obviously cheap to run
^ ThisAll cars depreciate, just a different levels. As Johnny points out, an EV will be cheaper to run, but only if the maths works out on everything else. However, if you can park some money into an EV and dont mind the depreciation, it might be sensible. However, its a balance between up-front costs vs ongoing maintenance & running costs. As pointed out by so many 'surveys', EV's technically only make sense over a longer period of time with bigger miles, but of course they dont factor in other incidental costs etc.
Saving on fuel is a big thing, but as was mentioned by the OP, 38MPG isnt that bad to start with. If you had something that was say, less than 25MPG, the maths do make a lot more sense at 12k miles. We went from an Evoque that struggled to get 20MPG due to the driving we were doing - so the cost saving were there, but the big thing was that there were a few impending major service items that it needed. It certainly needed the gearbox looking at and an intermittent misfire meant that it was likely the crank position sensor needed changing. Not large on their own, but jumping from that to an i3 with a CPO warranty and an unlimited mileage drivetrain warranty made a lot of sense in cost avoidance.
And I would mention that an EV (if you can charge at work or home) is also a very relaxing way to travel. They are quiet, easy to drive in traffic and you dont need to stop to get fuel. Commuting isnt great, but an EV does potentially make it a nicer thing to do, which has to be good.
If you have a situation where the Mercedes would throw up a big bill and the EV costs nothing in maintenance, then you could possibly end up breaking even on something like a Tesla. A bit of luck might be required though!
Example - this Tesla Model S 85
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111099...
Free supercharging for life, so fuel costs have the potential to be nil, though I doubt it'll be much fun sitting in a service station waiting while it charges up every week. Probably better to get a home charger installed and do it when you are sleeping.
Put the £5000 from the sale of your Mercedes towards it, then you have £22,000 to fund via a loan over 5 years. At 2.8% APR that'll be £393 a month, so like £4700 a year.
Subtract your old car's annual fuel cost of £2200 then you are £2500 down on your Merc.
Servicing/tax costs will be lower - you'll just have to hope the Tesla doesn't require any repairs!
Example - this Tesla Model S 85
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111099...
Free supercharging for life, so fuel costs have the potential to be nil, though I doubt it'll be much fun sitting in a service station waiting while it charges up every week. Probably better to get a home charger installed and do it when you are sleeping.
Put the £5000 from the sale of your Mercedes towards it, then you have £22,000 to fund via a loan over 5 years. At 2.8% APR that'll be £393 a month, so like £4700 a year.
Subtract your old car's annual fuel cost of £2200 then you are £2500 down on your Merc.
Servicing/tax costs will be lower - you'll just have to hope the Tesla doesn't require any repairs!
^^^ cheers.
I do get the point about a relaxing commute... unfortunately mine is somewhat rural so what makes for a relaxing commute here is comfy seats and over 200bhp to take advantage of the very limited overtaking spots!
Oddly enough one of my most pleasant city cars was a v8 Audi A8… double glazed and wafty. And after 4 weeks of advanced driving course in a 3.0D Audi a8l it was exceptionally competent on twisties. Maybe I need an a8?
I do get the point about a relaxing commute... unfortunately mine is somewhat rural so what makes for a relaxing commute here is comfy seats and over 200bhp to take advantage of the very limited overtaking spots!
Oddly enough one of my most pleasant city cars was a v8 Audi A8… double glazed and wafty. And after 4 weeks of advanced driving course in a 3.0D Audi a8l it was exceptionally competent on twisties. Maybe I need an a8?
carreauchompeur said:
Oddly enough one of my most pleasant city cars was a v8 Audi A8… double glazed and wafty. And after 4 weeks of advanced driving course in a 3.0D Audi a8l it was exceptionally competent on twisties. Maybe I need an a8?
An A8 is a nice place to spend time and there are a worse places to be! But, its a call that only you can make though - is it worth the cost (and potential big bills down the line) for the A8, or is it easier (and potentially cheaper) to go the EV route. Tough call....But, this does remind me of the discussions 10+ years ago around the introduction of more efficient diesels. Lots of people claiming their Clio diesels were getting 80MPG and cost pennies to run. Why wouldnt you jump into something that you can fill up for 20 quid and it lasts a month.... blah blah....
You know what though? Not everyone wants to spend time in a Clio diesel, and for those who want to be in a little more luxury, that costs money! You have a tough choice, no doubt. I wouldnt necessarily step down to a cheap EV, unless you must. But almost all of the mid-range ones offer quiet and effortless pace, so thats an option. But maybe a big wafty barge is the way forward? I keep looking at that thread and it tempts me every time!
RobDickinson said:
Basically any ev made since 2011 will do that trip
.
50 mile round trip all seasons and with some contingency and age related battery degredation? Work chargers are great, but if you need to do a fast U-turn (either work or family related) you don't want to be waiting to top-up just to be certain you'll get home. Also ideally, if you can do the journey twice on a charge then you're an even better situation for those 'oops' moments..
I'd cross Leaf24, Zoe22, i3 60Ah, possibly Ioniq28 off that list straight away for being able to do that commute reliably and without stress.
georgeyboy12345 said:
If you have a situation where the Mercedes would throw up a big bill and the EV costs nothing in maintenance, then you could possibly end up breaking even on something like a Tesla. A bit of luck might be required though!
Example - this Tesla Model S 85
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111099...
Free supercharging for life, so fuel costs have the potential to be nil, though I doubt it'll be much fun sitting in a service station waiting while it charges up every week. Probably better to get a home charger installed and do it when you are sleeping.
Put the £5000 from the sale of your Mercedes towards it, then you have £22,000 to fund via a loan over 5 years. At 2.8% APR that'll be £393 a month, so like £4700 a year.
Subtract your old car's annual fuel cost of £2200 then you are £2500 down on your Merc.
Servicing/tax costs will be lower - you'll just have to hope the Tesla doesn't require any repairs!
If you're buying an old Tesla Model S there's a few bills to be aware of. Plenty of buyers guides out there.Example - this Tesla Model S 85
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111099...
Free supercharging for life, so fuel costs have the potential to be nil, though I doubt it'll be much fun sitting in a service station waiting while it charges up every week. Probably better to get a home charger installed and do it when you are sleeping.
Put the £5000 from the sale of your Mercedes towards it, then you have £22,000 to fund via a loan over 5 years. At 2.8% APR that'll be £393 a month, so like £4700 a year.
Subtract your old car's annual fuel cost of £2200 then you are £2500 down on your Merc.
Servicing/tax costs will be lower - you'll just have to hope the Tesla doesn't require any repairs!
carreauchompeur said:
The only issue is that I’d want a decent electric car, not just a Leaf or similar eco box. Like the look of the Ioniq 5, or maybe a Tesla.
Not sure what you mean by "decent", but I'd recommend taking a look at the MG5. Significantly cheaper than an Ioniq5. 200+ mile range, 7 year guarantee, low servicing costs. I know nothing about leasing costs. I understand that some people will not buy Chinese on principle.Lily the Pink said:
Not sure what you mean by "decent", but I'd recommend taking a look at the MG5. Significantly cheaper than an Ioniq5. 200+ mile range, 7 year guarantee, low servicing costs. I know nothing about leasing costs. I understand that some people will not buy Chinese on principle.
Chinese made cars including the Tesla Model 3, Polestar 2 and BMW iX3 cars sold in the UK.Evanivitch said:
50 mile round trip all seasons and with some contingency and age related battery degredation? Work chargers are great, but if you need to do a fast U-turn (either work or family related) you don't want to be waiting to top-up just to be certain you'll get home. Also ideally, if you can do the journey twice on a charge then you're an even better situation for those 'oops' moments.
I'd cross Leaf24, Zoe22, i3 60Ah, possibly Ioniq28 off that list straight away for being able to do that commute reliably and without stress.
yeah sure a mid/low soh 24kwh leaf etc would need charging daytime but they've said thats there, I wasnt suggesting anything quite that bad but that you dont need a model 3 or p2 or whatever for itI'd cross Leaf24, Zoe22, i3 60Ah, possibly Ioniq28 off that list straight away for being able to do that commute reliably and without stress.
carreauchompeur said:
The only issue is that I’d want a decent electric car, not just a Leaf or similar eco box. Like the look of the Ioniq 5, or maybe a Tesla.
I had worried about the sort of issues you mention for just about most of 2021 and recently started to see how the transition would work by trying out on a monthly subscription basis, rather than get sucked into 2-4 year leasing - what if it doesn't work for me? what are the real financial implications? how the F$£@ do I charge when I cannot charge at home? etc etcWell - it's early days yet. I went for the very modest Hyundai Ioniq - and the tech and features are blowing me away - although some might baulk at the range, it's fine for someone with a motorcycle-mindset where a range like this would be generous - plus, you just charge while doing other things.......is it time for coffee yet.
My logic was I didn't know what I wanted when the rate of new vehicles available and the pace of change in range and features is a bit bewildering.
So you can try actually "living" with a car for a month or so, then maybe change to another - all with 1,000 miles a month (or more if you want to buy more miles) included in your subscription cost. I might try a Tesla for a month.... or maybe a VW or even a Citroen...I mean who wants to commit to a Citroen for a long term????
(Man Maths for me was that I'd currently spend about £250 in petrol to cover 1,000 miles, car is depreciating at about £70 per month, I can imagine spending anything above £1,200 in the next year on servicing and repairs, tyres and battery, and I don't have to worry about insurance, VED, breakdown cover - so suddenly £419 per month all in looks like a doddle to me)
((PS - I hire/subscribe through On.to at https://on.to - and I've even got a referral code to get some of the costs paid for....2b539... which should be good for anyone to get £50 off))
Before working from home kicked in, I was commuting 100 miles/day.
It was costing me around £25/ day in petrol so a 20 day month was £500 in fuel.
I bought an i3 REX and then later an i3S.
In the summer at best, I could do the 100 miles on 20kWh (5 miles/kWh) @ £0.05/kWh = £1.00
With the reduced efficiency in the winter months down to 3.6kWh it was still only £1.40/day.
Say average across the year 4 miles/kWh is £1.25/day x 20 days = 25/month.
For me the savings covered the finance.
It was a no-brainer for.
Either the REX or the S were perfectly fine for that daily commute and I loved them, particularly the S. A great little car.
At first, I used the 3 pin plug charger and so would plug in as soon as I got home and it would be ready for morning.
Initially I was using more expensive electricity so the costs were for 11.8 pence/kWh.
I changed over to Octopus night tariff asap and had a 7kWh charger installed.
I sold the I3S in October and bought (on HP) an Ioniq 5 as we wanted a bigger EV.
I am very much enjoying the Ioniq 5.
I much prefer my money paying off a car finance that gallons and gallons of petrol.
It was costing me around £25/ day in petrol so a 20 day month was £500 in fuel.
I bought an i3 REX and then later an i3S.
In the summer at best, I could do the 100 miles on 20kWh (5 miles/kWh) @ £0.05/kWh = £1.00
With the reduced efficiency in the winter months down to 3.6kWh it was still only £1.40/day.
Say average across the year 4 miles/kWh is £1.25/day x 20 days = 25/month.
For me the savings covered the finance.
It was a no-brainer for.
Either the REX or the S were perfectly fine for that daily commute and I loved them, particularly the S. A great little car.
At first, I used the 3 pin plug charger and so would plug in as soon as I got home and it would be ready for morning.
Initially I was using more expensive electricity so the costs were for 11.8 pence/kWh.
I changed over to Octopus night tariff asap and had a 7kWh charger installed.
I sold the I3S in October and bought (on HP) an Ioniq 5 as we wanted a bigger EV.
I am very much enjoying the Ioniq 5.
I much prefer my money paying off a car finance that gallons and gallons of petrol.
RobDickinson said:
yeah sure a mid/low soh 24kwh leaf etc would need charging daytime but they've said thats there, I wasnt suggesting anything quite that bad but that you dont need a model 3 or p2 or whatever for it
My previous office had private chargers that were occasionally out of order and required a technician to attend, which might not happen that day. But fortunately I have a PHEV.The public chargers I use at current office are currently 75% unavailable due to some error that hasn't been resolved in the last week.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but being possible and being stress-free are different things.
I expect used Model 3 prices to start making more sense in the next 6-12 months as more and more become available on the used market at the end of lease deals.
For the minute the prices are crazy. A brand new 2022 SR+ costs £43k today, the cheapest used SR+ on Autotrader is £38k for a 2019 car with 25k miles, which is essentially what it would have cost new? These cars have no real waiting list and are hardly rare now so prices have got to be due a plunge surely?
What do you think Johnny, easy £5k drop in the next 12 months?
For the minute the prices are crazy. A brand new 2022 SR+ costs £43k today, the cheapest used SR+ on Autotrader is £38k for a 2019 car with 25k miles, which is essentially what it would have cost new? These cars have no real waiting list and are hardly rare now so prices have got to be due a plunge surely?
What do you think Johnny, easy £5k drop in the next 12 months?
If you we well off, can charge at home and work and have few hobbies that mean you travel to remote areas routinely go for it.
The whole thing is aimed at the rich at the moment who have their own homes meaning the charging issues are less.
For the rest of the country it is not an option sadly.
The whole thing is aimed at the rich at the moment who have their own homes meaning the charging issues are less.
For the rest of the country it is not an option sadly.
SWoll said:
What do you think Johnny, easy £5k drop in the next 12 months?
I certainly think when the early company cars and leases start flooding onto the market in H2 next year, 3 years after the launch in the UK, plus the Model Y starts delivering in numbers, it's going to be hard for them to sustain the current prices.I'm very tempted to sell mine at the moment, order a Model Y (even though the reviews aren't that good) and then even take delivery in March when they arrive or at worst forfit the deposit. We can live with 1 car over winter. I bought my M3 from Tesla, used, 6 months ago, and I've fairly sure I'd get £3k-£5k more for it than I paid aas it came with all the desireable options - EAP, Acceleration boost and towing package, all of which make it stand out a little from the average car advertised at the moment.
I certainly wouldn't be buying a used Tesla at the moment unless you found a bargain given the prices. Tesla themselves are can be the best and worst for this ironically with some of the highest and lowest prices.
SWoll said:
I expect used Model 3 prices to start making more sense in the next 6-12 months as more and more become available on the used market at the end of lease deals.
For the minute the prices are crazy. A brand new 2022 SR+ costs £43k today, the cheapest used SR+ on Autotrader is £38k for a 2019 car with 25k miles, which is essentially what it would have cost new? These cars have no real waiting list and are hardly rare now so prices have got to be due a plunge surely?
What do you think Johnny, easy £5k drop in the next 12 months?
I'm not so sure. Demand for any kind of EV (new or used) is only going to be growing over the next 12 months. I was in a Tesla store in London the other day and there was an inventory car (Model 3) that became available on-site. It was sold within 30 minutes. For the minute the prices are crazy. A brand new 2022 SR+ costs £43k today, the cheapest used SR+ on Autotrader is £38k for a 2019 car with 25k miles, which is essentially what it would have cost new? These cars have no real waiting list and are hardly rare now so prices have got to be due a plunge surely?
What do you think Johnny, easy £5k drop in the next 12 months?
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