Will electric car prices ACTUALLY get lower?
Discussion
Hear me out.
Just watching Top Gear from last night and they're in Electric SUVs. Take for example the Merc EQC, it starts at like £65k whereas the GLC (petrol/diesel) version starts at more like £40k off the top of my head.
People claim electric cars will get cheaper but Merc are never going to release the successor to the EQC at a lower price are they? That's never happened ever and I can't see this being any different. It would kill residuals and it just isn't the done thing.
Am I wrong? Are they going to bring out cheaper electric cars in a generation's time or is it all bull?
This isn't an electric bashing thread, I actually want one as my next company car, however the prices for anything "premium" are madness and I can't see them reducing.
What are people's thoughts?
Just watching Top Gear from last night and they're in Electric SUVs. Take for example the Merc EQC, it starts at like £65k whereas the GLC (petrol/diesel) version starts at more like £40k off the top of my head.
People claim electric cars will get cheaper but Merc are never going to release the successor to the EQC at a lower price are they? That's never happened ever and I can't see this being any different. It would kill residuals and it just isn't the done thing.
Am I wrong? Are they going to bring out cheaper electric cars in a generation's time or is it all bull?
This isn't an electric bashing thread, I actually want one as my next company car, however the prices for anything "premium" are madness and I can't see them reducing.
What are people's thoughts?
I don't think they will get cheaper as an actual sticker price but I suspect that price rises will be subdued over the years so with price rises and inflation taken into account, they will become cheaper over the years in real terms.
I think manufacturers are using EVs as an opportunity to re-baseline peoples perceptions on how much a new car should cost.
In terms of R&D costs, moving to EVs was a big deal for most companies so they will want to see a return on that.
I think manufacturers are using EVs as an opportunity to re-baseline peoples perceptions on how much a new car should cost.
In terms of R&D costs, moving to EVs was a big deal for most companies so they will want to see a return on that.
Most electric cars are aimed at the expensive end if the market anyway, i.e. but pricey SUVs as they can charge enough to cover the ev costs.
As the tech gets cheaper, I imagine more mainstream models will appear, such as an electric A class etc. They will never be cheap, but they are still a Mercedes so to be expected really.
What we ideally want is Dacia / Kia et al producing affordable EVs to shake up the market a little.
As the tech gets cheaper, I imagine more mainstream models will appear, such as an electric A class etc. They will never be cheap, but they are still a Mercedes so to be expected really.
What we ideally want is Dacia / Kia et al producing affordable EVs to shake up the market a little.
The current battery tech available is extremely expensive - we can't possibly know when cheaper (and better in several ways) solid state batteries will be available to replace them and, in time, bring the prices down.
For the current premium brand EV's a lot can be justified in terms of performance too, vs ICE. You're comparing the the GLC which 'starts at' £40k.. but will that GLC do 0-60 in sub five seconds? The premium brands also tend to be quite generous with it levels for their EV offerings. Lastly.. once you have your expensive new EV, you can save a fortune on fuel. £5 for 250 miles range...
To answer question specifically, regards will prices ever really come down... Well we will never see a reduction even if they do. In ten years time most ICE will cease production so then what do we compare EV prices too at that point? It think new technologies and economy of scale will effectively reduce the price, but over such along span of time that a 'reduction' in price would actually just mean prices stay flat or only rise slowly, at a lesser rate than inflation.
For now, anyone that want's an EV bargain should watch out for lease deals on new models, they can be very heavily subsidised. The current best value EV's taking in account price, brand, practicality, performance has to be the Mustang Mach-E line up: https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/price-and-locate/pre-o...
For the current premium brand EV's a lot can be justified in terms of performance too, vs ICE. You're comparing the the GLC which 'starts at' £40k.. but will that GLC do 0-60 in sub five seconds? The premium brands also tend to be quite generous with it levels for their EV offerings. Lastly.. once you have your expensive new EV, you can save a fortune on fuel. £5 for 250 miles range...
To answer question specifically, regards will prices ever really come down... Well we will never see a reduction even if they do. In ten years time most ICE will cease production so then what do we compare EV prices too at that point? It think new technologies and economy of scale will effectively reduce the price, but over such along span of time that a 'reduction' in price would actually just mean prices stay flat or only rise slowly, at a lesser rate than inflation.
For now, anyone that want's an EV bargain should watch out for lease deals on new models, they can be very heavily subsidised. The current best value EV's taking in account price, brand, practicality, performance has to be the Mustang Mach-E line up: https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/price-and-locate/pre-o...
Watch the SHTF when/if this hits the market.
https://electrek.co/2021/10/12/the-25000-tesla-mod...
$25,000 = 18,635 pounds = 22,217 euros
https://electrek.co/2021/10/12/the-25000-tesla-mod...
$25,000 = 18,635 pounds = 22,217 euros
I am pretty sure they will get cheaper. Look at Tesla a few years ago when it only had a couple of models. Since then the Model 3 has come out and there is another apparently in the pipeline that carwow say will be £18k - which I think might be stretching it, but will be cheaper again then the current offering.
https://www.carwow.co.uk/tesla/news/5220/new-tesla...
But I think we will see more competition, more price points.
https://www.carwow.co.uk/tesla/news/5220/new-tesla...
But I think we will see more competition, more price points.
TheDeuce said:
The current battery tech available is extremely expensive - we can't possibly know when cheaper (and better in several ways) solid state batteries will be available to replace them and, in time, bring the prices down.
For the current premium brand EV's a lot can be justified in terms of performance too, vs ICE. You're comparing the the GLC which 'starts at' £40k.. but will that GLC do 0-60 in sub five seconds? The premium brands also tend to be quite generous with it levels for their EV offerings. Lastly.. once you have your expensive new EV, you can save a fortune on fuel. £5 for 250 miles range...
To answer question specifically, regards will prices ever really come down... Well we will never see a reduction even if they do. In ten years time most ICE will cease production so then what do we compare EV prices too at that point? It think new technologies and economy of scale will effectively reduce the price, but over such along span of time that a 'reduction' in price would actually just mean prices stay flat or only rise slowly, at a lesser rate than inflation.
For now, anyone that want's an EV bargain should watch out for lease deals on new models, they can be very heavily subsidised. The current best value EV's taking in account price, brand, practicality, performance has to be the Mustang Mach-E line up: https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/price-and-locate/pre-o...
You make a valid point re the performance, and maybe they will bring out lower power, longer range versions at a lower price. For the current premium brand EV's a lot can be justified in terms of performance too, vs ICE. You're comparing the the GLC which 'starts at' £40k.. but will that GLC do 0-60 in sub five seconds? The premium brands also tend to be quite generous with it levels for their EV offerings. Lastly.. once you have your expensive new EV, you can save a fortune on fuel. £5 for 250 miles range...
To answer question specifically, regards will prices ever really come down... Well we will never see a reduction even if they do. In ten years time most ICE will cease production so then what do we compare EV prices too at that point? It think new technologies and economy of scale will effectively reduce the price, but over such along span of time that a 'reduction' in price would actually just mean prices stay flat or only rise slowly, at a lesser rate than inflation.
For now, anyone that want's an EV bargain should watch out for lease deals on new models, they can be very heavily subsidised. The current best value EV's taking in account price, brand, practicality, performance has to be the Mustang Mach-E line up: https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/price-and-locate/pre-o...
NMNeil said:
Watch the SHTF when/if this hits the market.
https://electrek.co/2021/10/12/the-25000-tesla-mod...
$25,000 = 18,635 pounds = 22,217 euros
I heard it's just a re-badged g-whizz https://electrek.co/2021/10/12/the-25000-tesla-mod...
$25,000 = 18,635 pounds = 22,217 euros
(which, weirdly, actually also cost $25k with the bigger battery pack...)
MikeM6 said:
Most electric cars are aimed at the expensive end if the market anyway, i.e. but pricey SUVs as they can charge enough to cover the ev costs.
As the tech gets cheaper, I imagine more mainstream models will appear, such as an electric A class etc. They will never be cheap, but they are still a Mercedes so to be expected really.
What we ideally want is Dacia / Kia et al producing affordable EVs to shake up the market a little.
Dacia has already launched a cheap EV - it's called the Dacia Spring and it costs under Euro17k. In France, with the French government grant, it is around Euro12.5k. Dacia/Renault are debating whether it is worthwhile converting it to RHD for the UK.As the tech gets cheaper, I imagine more mainstream models will appear, such as an electric A class etc. They will never be cheap, but they are still a Mercedes so to be expected really.
What we ideally want is Dacia / Kia et al producing affordable EVs to shake up the market a little.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/dacia-...
At the moment the charging infrastructure is okay, but not great. So issues with long distance travel and range anxiety are addressed by larger and larger batteries. Larger batteries cost more and require bigger cars, which cost more.
Smaller batteries, circa 50kWh are now normal at the lower end of market (Zoe, Corsa, lowest ID3) but need to be supported by good charge rates (120kW+), flatter charge curves and better charging infrastructure.
So yes, prices could come down, but it's a much wider ecosystem decision than just the cars.
Smaller batteries, circa 50kWh are now normal at the lower end of market (Zoe, Corsa, lowest ID3) but need to be supported by good charge rates (120kW+), flatter charge curves and better charging infrastructure.
So yes, prices could come down, but it's a much wider ecosystem decision than just the cars.
thecremeegg said:
TheDeuce said:
The current battery tech available is extremely expensive - we can't possibly know when cheaper (and better in several ways) solid state batteries will be available to replace them and, in time, bring the prices down.
For the current premium brand EV's a lot can be justified in terms of performance too, vs ICE. You're comparing the the GLC which 'starts at' £40k.. but will that GLC do 0-60 in sub five seconds? The premium brands also tend to be quite generous with it levels for their EV offerings. Lastly.. once you have your expensive new EV, you can save a fortune on fuel. £5 for 250 miles range...
To answer question specifically, regards will prices ever really come down... Well we will never see a reduction even if they do. In ten years time most ICE will cease production so then what do we compare EV prices too at that point? It think new technologies and economy of scale will effectively reduce the price, but over such along span of time that a 'reduction' in price would actually just mean prices stay flat or only rise slowly, at a lesser rate than inflation.
For now, anyone that want's an EV bargain should watch out for lease deals on new models, they can be very heavily subsidised. The current best value EV's taking in account price, brand, practicality, performance has to be the Mustang Mach-E line up: https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/price-and-locate/pre-o...
You make a valid point re the performance, and maybe they will bring out lower power, longer range versions at a lower price. For the current premium brand EV's a lot can be justified in terms of performance too, vs ICE. You're comparing the the GLC which 'starts at' £40k.. but will that GLC do 0-60 in sub five seconds? The premium brands also tend to be quite generous with it levels for their EV offerings. Lastly.. once you have your expensive new EV, you can save a fortune on fuel. £5 for 250 miles range...
To answer question specifically, regards will prices ever really come down... Well we will never see a reduction even if they do. In ten years time most ICE will cease production so then what do we compare EV prices too at that point? It think new technologies and economy of scale will effectively reduce the price, but over such along span of time that a 'reduction' in price would actually just mean prices stay flat or only rise slowly, at a lesser rate than inflation.
For now, anyone that want's an EV bargain should watch out for lease deals on new models, they can be very heavily subsidised. The current best value EV's taking in account price, brand, practicality, performance has to be the Mustang Mach-E line up: https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/price-and-locate/pre-o...
If performance is of no concern and you don't need much range, you can now lease electric small cars like the e-up for about £150 a month - easily cheaper than any ICE you could lease once the fuel saving is taken in to account.
If you need a luxury SUV with supercar acceleration and 300 miles of range you will indeed have to pay quite a lot - but I would say no more overall than has always been the case.
Its early days and production is skewed to bigger, more expensive models as the batteries are big and heavy to get a decent range, obviously there is smaller stuff like the Honda E but being small it cant fit as many cells in so its range is quite low.
Aside from the batteries, I bet the rest of an EV is actually cheaper to produce.
It all hinges on battery tech improving, there are incremental gains at the moment and we do have viable electric cars but they are still hamstrung by range, expense and charging time, I do believe that will improve but that step change in battery tech is what it needs.
You can get a fairly cheap EV, an MG ZS for about 28 grand, a Renault Zoe for about the same and a Nissan Leaf for a smidge more but they arent cheap when you can get a Dacia Duster for 14 grand or a Sandero for 10. But, I see absolutely loads of ICE cars way more expensive than 28/29 grand, so someone is buying them. And lets face it, most people look at the monthly cost anyway, and an EV will potentially cost a lot less to run, for now anyway.
Aside from the batteries, I bet the rest of an EV is actually cheaper to produce.
It all hinges on battery tech improving, there are incremental gains at the moment and we do have viable electric cars but they are still hamstrung by range, expense and charging time, I do believe that will improve but that step change in battery tech is what it needs.
You can get a fairly cheap EV, an MG ZS for about 28 grand, a Renault Zoe for about the same and a Nissan Leaf for a smidge more but they arent cheap when you can get a Dacia Duster for 14 grand or a Sandero for 10. But, I see absolutely loads of ICE cars way more expensive than 28/29 grand, so someone is buying them. And lets face it, most people look at the monthly cost anyway, and an EV will potentially cost a lot less to run, for now anyway.
Motoring costs are generally purchase price + motive energy cost to move the thing around + taxation.
EVs bring the motive energy costs + taxation down but with higher purchasing price.
There is not a car maker / government out there aligned to lowering overall motoring costs.
As fossil fuel gets more expensive, they'll use that ceiling to keep nudging EV costs up - if it's overall just £1 cheaper to run an EV vs ICE... then job jobbed.
So no, I don't think they will get lower at all. They charge up to the max level the market will tolerate for a given output, regardless of cost base, If you can charge a lot for something that costs a little ie iphone, then that's called 'good business'.
EVs bring the motive energy costs + taxation down but with higher purchasing price.
There is not a car maker / government out there aligned to lowering overall motoring costs.
As fossil fuel gets more expensive, they'll use that ceiling to keep nudging EV costs up - if it's overall just £1 cheaper to run an EV vs ICE... then job jobbed.
So no, I don't think they will get lower at all. They charge up to the max level the market will tolerate for a given output, regardless of cost base, If you can charge a lot for something that costs a little ie iphone, then that's called 'good business'.
It's not about the price of premium electric cars reducing, it's about electric cars being available in the non-premium segments!
Today something like an etron or GLE are very expensive large SUV's. But they are not really any more expensive than a similarly hgih performance ICE large SUV. So far, at low volumes, there simply isn't the business case to support low cost "economy" cars turning into EV's, but that is changing, as battery cell costs fall and the tech developed for the premium cars becomes available for the low cost segments
We are probably a couple of years away at max from genuine low cost EV's, but there are already some players in the what i would call the mid segment, cars like the ID3, Pug 208e and eCorsa for example.
Today something like an etron or GLE are very expensive large SUV's. But they are not really any more expensive than a similarly hgih performance ICE large SUV. So far, at low volumes, there simply isn't the business case to support low cost "economy" cars turning into EV's, but that is changing, as battery cell costs fall and the tech developed for the premium cars becomes available for the low cost segments
We are probably a couple of years away at max from genuine low cost EV's, but there are already some players in the what i would call the mid segment, cars like the ID3, Pug 208e and eCorsa for example.
Whilst more expensive to buy they do save you every week going forward?
I mean hypothetically what if they sold a car that didn't ever need refuelling, they'd charge more probably even if it were cheaper to make?
It's a barrier though I agree as no one wants to run 3-10 year projections on repairs/fuel cost to work out if or how much it saves you.
I do agree though that it's a huge barrier to high % ownership, very very few EV's have yet been bought primarily for their economics, lots are second cars, leases to try them out with low risk, fashionable, green credentials with the running cost savings afterwards being a nice bonus. They'll either suffer huge depreciation or still be comparatively expensive as used cars, and so still be a barrier to adoption........it'll take time, perhaps manufacturers will flex in time but reducing prices going forward is unlikely, it'll annoy recent buyers especially with EV's on an improvement curve? ie wait and you'll pay less for more tomorrow, is not a good way to promote high sales today!
I mean hypothetically what if they sold a car that didn't ever need refuelling, they'd charge more probably even if it were cheaper to make?
It's a barrier though I agree as no one wants to run 3-10 year projections on repairs/fuel cost to work out if or how much it saves you.
I do agree though that it's a huge barrier to high % ownership, very very few EV's have yet been bought primarily for their economics, lots are second cars, leases to try them out with low risk, fashionable, green credentials with the running cost savings afterwards being a nice bonus. They'll either suffer huge depreciation or still be comparatively expensive as used cars, and so still be a barrier to adoption........it'll take time, perhaps manufacturers will flex in time but reducing prices going forward is unlikely, it'll annoy recent buyers especially with EV's on an improvement curve? ie wait and you'll pay less for more tomorrow, is not a good way to promote high sales today!
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