Plug in hybrids - the reality
Discussion
I thought I would write this after reading a few articles in the non-motoring press that suggested that PHEVs were a bit of a waste of time and far better to go for straight hybrid or full electric.
Well, I’ve now had a company Superb IV Estate for 5000 miles, so have a bit of real-world data.
The first thing to note is that I save around £200 a month on tax over my previous company car although this is obviously something of limited interest to those without company cars.
Contrary to most of the articles mentioned above, I had a chargepoint fitted (around £500 over the grant) and a ‘tethered’ cable in a sensible place means that the car is plugged in the whole time it is sitting on the drive. This takes literally seconds to plug and unplug.
Genuine electric range is around 27 miles in summer and 22 miles now. This sounds feeble, but it’s amazing how many journeys I do that turn out to be electric only.
Overall mpg so far is about 74, although obviously a part of the cost will be adding to my electricity bill. It looks like electric miles are considerably less than half the cost of petrol ones.
In full hybrid mode I get around 43mpg - which I don’t think is bad for a car of this size. I even averaged around this on a 340 mile journey from France, with a lot of 85mph cruising on autoroutes.
Choosing ‘Sport’ mode gives you quite a fast estate, with 220 bhp on tap from both power sources combined. but I imagine that isn’t particularly economical as it has to constantly maintain the charge in the high voltage system via the petrol engine.
So….all pretty good really, and at least at the moment I would probably choose another PHEV over standard hybrid or all electric.
Well, I’ve now had a company Superb IV Estate for 5000 miles, so have a bit of real-world data.
The first thing to note is that I save around £200 a month on tax over my previous company car although this is obviously something of limited interest to those without company cars.
Contrary to most of the articles mentioned above, I had a chargepoint fitted (around £500 over the grant) and a ‘tethered’ cable in a sensible place means that the car is plugged in the whole time it is sitting on the drive. This takes literally seconds to plug and unplug.
Genuine electric range is around 27 miles in summer and 22 miles now. This sounds feeble, but it’s amazing how many journeys I do that turn out to be electric only.
Overall mpg so far is about 74, although obviously a part of the cost will be adding to my electricity bill. It looks like electric miles are considerably less than half the cost of petrol ones.
In full hybrid mode I get around 43mpg - which I don’t think is bad for a car of this size. I even averaged around this on a 340 mile journey from France, with a lot of 85mph cruising on autoroutes.
Choosing ‘Sport’ mode gives you quite a fast estate, with 220 bhp on tap from both power sources combined. but I imagine that isn’t particularly economical as it has to constantly maintain the charge in the high voltage system via the petrol engine.
So….all pretty good really, and at least at the moment I would probably choose another PHEV over standard hybrid or all electric.
I have a PHEV on order as well.
I'd have an EV (if there was a decent estate) but the charging network just isn't good enough and I'd end up killed by my wife the first time we tried to go to Cornwall and couldn't get a charge.
On paper a PHEV is perfect for me as I can have an EV for daily duties (I rarely drive more than 20miles from home) but also go to Cornwall or Cumbria without having to worry about it.
I'd have an EV (if there was a decent estate) but the charging network just isn't good enough and I'd end up killed by my wife the first time we tried to go to Cornwall and couldn't get a charge.
On paper a PHEV is perfect for me as I can have an EV for daily duties (I rarely drive more than 20miles from home) but also go to Cornwall or Cumbria without having to worry about it.
Yeah, I've been reading up on the Golf GTE PHEV, for someone like myself, the car would use just the battery alone for a good 80%+ of the time. Yet when/if required it has a combined range of 580 miles. Even if that figure in reality is 450 miles, that would still make best of both worlds for me.
A much simpler full EV is far more suitable for the vast majority of drivers for 99% of journeys. I can see the case for a PHEV but would have to be covering significant mileages (250+) on a regular basis to ever consider one now.
The idea of carrying around an entire ICE setup for the odd 300+ mile trip seems ridiculous to me, but appreciate there is far more vehicle choice to suit different requirements and budgets.
The idea of carrying around an entire ICE setup for the odd 300+ mile trip seems ridiculous to me, but appreciate there is far more vehicle choice to suit different requirements and budgets.
Lincsls1 said:
Yeah, I've been reading up on the Golf GTE PHEV, for someone like myself, the car would use just the battery alone for a good 80%+ of the time. Yet when/if required it has a combined range of 580 miles. Even if that figure in reality is 450 miles, that would still make best of both worlds for me.
Got to the end of. My ipace lease, and with my mileage being 1/3 of what it was I couldn't justify anything remotely as expensive, but needed a bit of space and a minimum 200 mile real world range in an ev (I live in West Cumbria) and there was just nothing available at a price for a number of months. Currently I'm doing nothing most days, 2.or 3 local trips a week and one long haul 250-300 miles each way a month. Ended up with a 2018 Golf gte, similar range to the skoda above. The new. Mk8 if you can find one has about double the range, but I really don't like the new interior on this or the id3, and I dint want to make payments on a 35-40k car
Had it about 2 months now, local trips (shopping, tip runs, to the beach, for walks & visits to the in laws) all on battery bar the odd mile or.two, the 250 mile+ long hauls to Bath and back getting me about 55-60mpg and this is in winter.
Been pleasantly surprised, aiming to keep it for a year and see where the eV supply is before probably switching back if I can find anything.
Another PHEV owner checking in here. 2016 Audi A3 e-tron that I bought last June with 77000 on the clock. I have put 4500 miles on it since then with an average of 88 mpg. I have only put petrol in it 7 times so far. I also got a home charger installed for £600. Electric bill has increased by about £25 a month. I'm just on a standard tariff, it's kind of hard to switch to an EV one at the moment. Still ridiculously cheap for the performance it offers. There are no EVs that are better for the same money yet.
I’ve been thrilled with my 4 E Hybrid, probably not the most efficient PHEV, big lump of a thing, but suits my journeys brilliantly.
I seem to be getting about 800+ miles on a tank (with charging) The last tank of fuel, 400 of those miles was on Electric. Even when running on the ICE, when I take my foot off the throttle, and coast, it shuts off the engine, quite clever, and seems to make a difference.
The winter range seems to be 22 miles which is still enough for my uses. I’m unsure what it will be in the summer as it’s not got warm enough during my ownership.. hoping for 25-27 miles. It’s getting 60mpg at the moment, which is amazing for the lump that it is.
I can see me holding on to this one!
Not sure how much more it’s costing to charge, as my smart meter has gone wrong, and I can’t get octopus energy to look at it..
I seem to be getting about 800+ miles on a tank (with charging) The last tank of fuel, 400 of those miles was on Electric. Even when running on the ICE, when I take my foot off the throttle, and coast, it shuts off the engine, quite clever, and seems to make a difference.
The winter range seems to be 22 miles which is still enough for my uses. I’m unsure what it will be in the summer as it’s not got warm enough during my ownership.. hoping for 25-27 miles. It’s getting 60mpg at the moment, which is amazing for the lump that it is.
I can see me holding on to this one!
Not sure how much more it’s costing to charge, as my smart meter has gone wrong, and I can’t get octopus energy to look at it..
Edited by jamesbilluk on Thursday 13th January 22:28
Did it, thought it was OK, don’t want another one.
Had 2 years in a Golf GTE - cheap private lease, no tax perks. In so many ways it made sense for us, nursery run twice a day and other running about and a few long runs a month. The VW group ones also work really well as a short range EV (some don’t) - can preheat including when it’s not plugged in, and use all the electric power without the engine starting up. This was in 2017 too when affordable BEV meant a Leaf or Zoe.
I found it more and more frustrating though - the inefficient heating meant a winter trip into central London (10 miles) would eat most of the battery and be running on petrol home. Once you try proper EVs you notice how odd it is to run an electric motor through a DSG gearbox (shuffling through the gears) rather than direct drive - and how slow it feels in comparison. Plus plugging in every.single.day.
Worked out we didn’t do more than 100 miles much (and had a second car by then to fall back on) so got an eGolf after and massively preferred it for the everyday stuff. I think if we did need a single car to do everything then something like the current Octavia vrs PHEV would work OK but it’s a big set of compromises just to avoid the odd public charge. Egolf is going and a 62kWh Leaf replacing it which I expect to do almost all of our routine trips.
Had 2 years in a Golf GTE - cheap private lease, no tax perks. In so many ways it made sense for us, nursery run twice a day and other running about and a few long runs a month. The VW group ones also work really well as a short range EV (some don’t) - can preheat including when it’s not plugged in, and use all the electric power without the engine starting up. This was in 2017 too when affordable BEV meant a Leaf or Zoe.
I found it more and more frustrating though - the inefficient heating meant a winter trip into central London (10 miles) would eat most of the battery and be running on petrol home. Once you try proper EVs you notice how odd it is to run an electric motor through a DSG gearbox (shuffling through the gears) rather than direct drive - and how slow it feels in comparison. Plus plugging in every.single.day.
Worked out we didn’t do more than 100 miles much (and had a second car by then to fall back on) so got an eGolf after and massively preferred it for the everyday stuff. I think if we did need a single car to do everything then something like the current Octavia vrs PHEV would work OK but it’s a big set of compromises just to avoid the odd public charge. Egolf is going and a 62kWh Leaf replacing it which I expect to do almost all of our routine trips.
SWoll said:
A much simpler full EV is far more suitable for the vast majority of drivers for 99% of journeys. I can see the case for a PHEV but would have to be covering significant mileages (250+) on a regular basis to ever consider one now.
The idea of carrying around an entire ICE setup for the odd 300+ mile trip seems ridiculous to me, but appreciate there is far more vehicle choice to suit different requirements and budgets.
It’s no worse than a 600kg battery when 150kg of PHEV could suffice! Best thing is you have 4 electrified vehicles with the cells not 1! The idea of carrying around an entire ICE setup for the odd 300+ mile trip seems ridiculous to me, but appreciate there is far more vehicle choice to suit different requirements and budgets.
The biggest issue is the restraint to maintain EV drive, engine starting and racing is pretty brutal. In an EV you don’t have any of that concern and it’s pretty liberating in that sense.
51mes said:
Got to the end of. My ipace lease, and with my mileage being 1/3 of what it was I couldn't justify anything remotely as expensive, but needed a bit of space and a minimum 200 mile real world range in an ev (I live in West Cumbria) and there was just nothing available at a price for a number of months. Currently I'm doing nothing most days, 2.or 3 local trips a week and one long haul 250-300 miles each way a month.
Ended up with a 2018 Golf gte, similar range to the skoda above. The new. Mk8 if you can find one has about double the range, but I really don't like the new interior on this or the id3, and I dint want to make payments on a 35-40k car
Had it about 2 months now, local trips (shopping, tip runs, to the beach, for walks & visits to the in laws) all on battery bar the odd mile or.two, the 250 mile+ long hauls to Bath and back getting me about 55-60mpg and this is in winter.
Been pleasantly surprised, aiming to keep it for a year and see where the eV supply is before probably switching back if I can find anything.
That sounds spot on. I'd probably look for a mk7.5, have read built quality seems to have dropped off a bit on the newer car and i too prefer the interior and controls of the older model.Ended up with a 2018 Golf gte, similar range to the skoda above. The new. Mk8 if you can find one has about double the range, but I really don't like the new interior on this or the id3, and I dint want to make payments on a 35-40k car
Had it about 2 months now, local trips (shopping, tip runs, to the beach, for walks & visits to the in laws) all on battery bar the odd mile or.two, the 250 mile+ long hauls to Bath and back getting me about 55-60mpg and this is in winter.
Been pleasantly surprised, aiming to keep it for a year and see where the eV supply is before probably switching back if I can find anything.
I have been running a HEV (ie. non-plug-in) company car for 3 years and it finally goes back in a few weeks (yes, I'm counting down the days!)
For me, I started a new role just as the new harmonised WLTP rules came about. This meant, for a period of about 10 weeks, you couldn't actually order something like a plug-in-hybrid from the mainstream manufacturers (ie. VAG).
Because my role was hiring on the exact wage I was previously on, I wanted to gain as much income as possible by selecting a low CO2 car which fit the budget for the company lease.
I ended up with a Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid.
It has a 1.6 petrol engine with a massive 99hp, supplemented with a 41hp electric motor, bolted directly to the (DCT) gearbox.
Other than obtaining its (for the time) low CO2 emissions figure of 84, I really can't see much point in this car. Think of it as the equivalent to the Toyota Prius.
The long-term MPG has just dipped below 60.
Whilst waiting for delivery of my car 3 years ago I had a Golf with the 1.5 EVO engine. I managed 59mpg out of that which was a much more entertaining car to drive. However, that would have cost me more BIK tax!
HEVs - pointless
PHEVs - less pointless, worst of both worlds
EVs - in the right circumstance (ie with home / workplace charging) these make the most sense
I'm very grateful to have a Tesla on order for the replacement.
For me, I started a new role just as the new harmonised WLTP rules came about. This meant, for a period of about 10 weeks, you couldn't actually order something like a plug-in-hybrid from the mainstream manufacturers (ie. VAG).
Because my role was hiring on the exact wage I was previously on, I wanted to gain as much income as possible by selecting a low CO2 car which fit the budget for the company lease.
I ended up with a Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid.
It has a 1.6 petrol engine with a massive 99hp, supplemented with a 41hp electric motor, bolted directly to the (DCT) gearbox.
Other than obtaining its (for the time) low CO2 emissions figure of 84, I really can't see much point in this car. Think of it as the equivalent to the Toyota Prius.
The long-term MPG has just dipped below 60.
Whilst waiting for delivery of my car 3 years ago I had a Golf with the 1.5 EVO engine. I managed 59mpg out of that which was a much more entertaining car to drive. However, that would have cost me more BIK tax!
HEVs - pointless
PHEVs - less pointless, worst of both worlds
EVs - in the right circumstance (ie with home / workplace charging) these make the most sense
I'm very grateful to have a Tesla on order for the replacement.
JonnyVTEC said:
SWoll said:
A much simpler full EV is far more suitable for the vast majority of drivers for 99% of journeys. I can see the case for a PHEV but would have to be covering significant mileages (250+) on a regular basis to ever consider one now.
The idea of carrying around an entire ICE setup for the odd 300+ mile trip seems ridiculous to me, but appreciate there is far more vehicle choice to suit different requirements and budgets.
It’s no worse than a 600kg battery when 150kg of PHEV could suffice! Best thing is you have 4 electrified vehicles with the cells not 1! The idea of carrying around an entire ICE setup for the odd 300+ mile trip seems ridiculous to me, but appreciate there is far more vehicle choice to suit different requirements and budgets.
The biggest issue is the restraint to maintain EV drive, engine starting and racing is pretty brutal. In an EV you don’t have any of that concern and it’s pretty liberating in that sense.
My wife just got a Ford Kuga plug in hybrid to replace her diesel Volvo XC60. It’s plugged in with a normal 3 pin plug at the moment and takes around 5 hours to charge from 0-100%. It supposedly has a 30 mile EV range, so far it seems more like 20-25, but it’s pretty cold at the moment. It just about does the school runs and daily duties on electric only. We have around 5kW PV panels on our roof so in the summer this will cover charging the car if plugged in during the day.
It’s also has more legroom and a bigger boot, despite having a smaller footprint. I hated that Volvo. I never have to pick up the black nozzle ever again too, which is a nice thought.
She bought it as a transition car with the intention of a BEV in a year or two. There’s a 6 month waiting list for the Mach-E anyway!
It’s also has more legroom and a bigger boot, despite having a smaller footprint. I hated that Volvo. I never have to pick up the black nozzle ever again too, which is a nice thought.
She bought it as a transition car with the intention of a BEV in a year or two. There’s a 6 month waiting list for the Mach-E anyway!
SWoll said:
A much simpler full EV is far more suitable for the vast majority of drivers for 99% of journeys. I can see the case for a PHEV but would have to be covering significant mileages (250+) on a regular basis to ever consider one now.
The idea of carrying around an entire ICE setup for the odd 300+ mile trip seems ridiculous to me, but appreciate there is far more vehicle choice to suit different requirements and budgets.
It’s the other 1% of journeys that might cause the problem though. I imagine before too long places like holiday cottages will have charging points along with more and more private houses and that might change things a lot. At the moment, a lot of people will think about how their fortnight in Cornwall or Aberdeenshire might work out with an EV.The idea of carrying around an entire ICE setup for the odd 300+ mile trip seems ridiculous to me, but appreciate there is far more vehicle choice to suit different requirements and budgets.
I've got a Suzuki Across PHEV. (yes, it is a Rav4). Even in the cold it does 42 miles on battery alone. I've been told to expect 50 miles in the summer. It's nice and big, fits my golf clubs, the dog, lots of luggage and it's nice to drive, with 0-60 in 6 seconds if the fancy takes me.
I rarely do longer journeys and, if I do, it's very fuel efficient at that too. What's not to like? It's perfect for my needs. There are several other manufacturers bringing out longer range PHEVs this year too.
I rarely do longer journeys and, if I do, it's very fuel efficient at that too. What's not to like? It's perfect for my needs. There are several other manufacturers bringing out longer range PHEVs this year too.
RayPike said:
I've got a Suzuki Across PHEV. (yes, it is a Rav4). Even in the cold it does 42 miles on battery alone. I've been told to expect 50 miles in the summer. It's nice and big, fits my golf clubs, the dog, lots of luggage and it's nice to drive, with 0-60 in 6 seconds if the fancy takes me.
I rarely do longer journeys and, if I do, it's very fuel efficient at that too. What's not to like? It's perfect for my needs. There are several other manufacturers bringing out longer range PHEVs this year too.
I had no idea those things had 300hp. I also had no idea they were almost £50k!!I rarely do longer journeys and, if I do, it's very fuel efficient at that too. What's not to like? It's perfect for my needs. There are several other manufacturers bringing out longer range PHEVs this year too.
Cayenne e hybrid here, very happy with it, a tank of petrol can last a couple of months, but when you want a bit of get up and go its there and no worries on long journeys. Definitely dont think I would go full ev yet, as using the chargeplace scotland charging network i have only had a 50% success rate in actually being able to charge, the chargers are frequently broken.
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