Citroen Berlingo, now only EV
Discussion
Understand the logic why Stellantis have done this but...
Basically the MPV versions of its Berlingo / Combo / Rifter range will no longer be sold in UK/EU with ICE even in hybrid form. Only BEV. Commercial vans will still be available with ICE.
The argument forwarded is that as these vehicles are heavy, large frontal area their fuel consumption figures harm the fleet average.
However testing shows that their range is drastically below their claimed WLTP figures, often as low as 110-120 miles vs claimed 180. This immediately negates their often advertised use as a leisure vehicle and reduces it to that of a just around town MPV.
Ok they may not be everyone's cup of tea, I've only ever briefly considered a just above shed level one as a dog van, but judging the numbers of even new ones I see running about there are a lot who do like them. Plus of course they are a staple choice for many Motability customers, especially wheelchair bound. So the Stellantis claim that this change is to ensure the future viability of the model might be a tad off target.
Autocar short piece here
Basically the MPV versions of its Berlingo / Combo / Rifter range will no longer be sold in UK/EU with ICE even in hybrid form. Only BEV. Commercial vans will still be available with ICE.
The argument forwarded is that as these vehicles are heavy, large frontal area their fuel consumption figures harm the fleet average.
However testing shows that their range is drastically below their claimed WLTP figures, often as low as 110-120 miles vs claimed 180. This immediately negates their often advertised use as a leisure vehicle and reduces it to that of a just around town MPV.
Ok they may not be everyone's cup of tea, I've only ever briefly considered a just above shed level one as a dog van, but judging the numbers of even new ones I see running about there are a lot who do like them. Plus of course they are a staple choice for many Motability customers, especially wheelchair bound. So the Stellantis claim that this change is to ensure the future viability of the model might be a tad off target.
Autocar short piece here
Yeah, heard about this and found it an odd move.
Most of the time these are bought at a very tight budget, it was a lot of "car" for the money. You'd have a van and a car, all for the price of a hatchback.
If they manage to do the impossible and keep the cost down, it might be feasible.
But that range does kill it. For a proper vacation vehicle you'd need 300km and proper (+100kW) fast charging.
PS:
Just checked out the website and the base price is about the same that of a base Golf, which is iirc always where it has been. That's pretty good for an EV considering running costs.
The 50kW battery won't give much more than 200km/120mi I'd say.
Most of the time these are bought at a very tight budget, it was a lot of "car" for the money. You'd have a van and a car, all for the price of a hatchback.
If they manage to do the impossible and keep the cost down, it might be feasible.
But that range does kill it. For a proper vacation vehicle you'd need 300km and proper (+100kW) fast charging.
PS:
Just checked out the website and the base price is about the same that of a base Golf, which is iirc always where it has been. That's pretty good for an EV considering running costs.
The 50kW battery won't give much more than 200km/120mi I'd say.
What else can they do? They have to sack off the ICE to limit their emissions EU fines.. The BEV doesn't sound like it makes much sense to me to be honest.. but it's potentially worth a go ahead of simply sacking off the model entirely..
A lot of larger, draggier vehicles are going to struggle in the face of the incoming ICE bans. Personally, I think light commercial vehicles should be hydrogen fuel cell, at least until higher density batteries are available.
A lot of larger, draggier vehicles are going to struggle in the face of the incoming ICE bans. Personally, I think light commercial vehicles should be hydrogen fuel cell, at least until higher density batteries are available.
FiF said:
Plus of course they are a staple choice for many Motability customers, especially wheelchair bound.
ICE still available as special order to third-party converters - ie those who put in wheelchair ramps and the like.Plus you can still order a Berlingo or Dispatch as a commercial crew van, with rear windows, if you could live with a more utilitarian spec and need a diesel. VW sell plenty of Transporters like that, trim/soundproof the back and they're not bad family transport.
When it's a "car" though it's tricky for CO2 averages, and adding what they'll now cost in fines to the customer will make them much more expensive anyway.
An EV that does less than 120 real-world miles has been our main family car for the last 2 years, and these rapid charge a lot quicker. I was actually quite interested in one of these but order/delivery times were dragging on and Citroen weren't doing their usual discounting (yet).
I just wish Stellantis would bring the 75kWh battery here for the bigger Spacetourer/Traveller MPVs. In France you can order them any length, either battery, and a few different trim levels. Restricted choice here as it's a niche market.
TheDeuce said:
A lot of larger, draggier vehicles are going to struggle in the face of the incoming ICE bans. Personally, I think light commercial vehicles should be hydrogen fuel cell, at least until higher density batteries are available.
I think there's another thread running on this, but for all the "white van" men I know, BEV would be a perfect fit. Never the odd "holiday" and well under 100km/day.HGV and holidays will be the biggest struggle.
How much is it?
I've just been onto the Citroen website and the initial page says from £21,880, then i click through to the configurator and now its saying from £30,995.
Bit of a difference lol.
I guess £31k is the correct price. Just been through the configurator. Very low rent with very little in the way of options. I'd have thought climate control would come with most cars now.
I've just been onto the Citroen website and the initial page says from £21,880, then i click through to the configurator and now its saying from £30,995.
Bit of a difference lol.
I guess £31k is the correct price. Just been through the configurator. Very low rent with very little in the way of options. I'd have thought climate control would come with most cars now.
Edited by WonkeyDonkey on Tuesday 25th January 15:09
WonkeyDonkey said:
How much is it?
I've just been onto the Citroen website and the initial page says from £21,880, then i click through to the configurator and now its saying from £30,995.
Bit of a difference lol.
Maybe taking some government subsidies into account?I've just been onto the Citroen website and the initial page says from £21,880, then i click through to the configurator and now its saying from £30,995.
Bit of a difference lol.
Launch price in France is EUR 35k which would be about GBP 30k.
ZesPak said:
TheDeuce said:
A lot of larger, draggier vehicles are going to struggle in the face of the incoming ICE bans. Personally, I think light commercial vehicles should be hydrogen fuel cell, at least until higher density batteries are available.
I think there's another thread running on this, but for all the "white van" men I know, BEV would be a perfect fit. Never the odd "holiday" and well under 100km/day.HGV and holidays will be the biggest struggle.
Also motorway speeds are a killer for any EV's range due to air resistance, and those sorts of speeds become a factor for vans travelling longer distances.
I hire a van for each project I do and would need more like 200 miles range on a charge.
It's an odd decision because IMHO the Berlingo is associated with the outdoor lifestyle where you drive long distances and go into remote places. One of its selling points is that it is very comfortable over long distances. Having it as a BEV with quite a small range doesn't really seem to fit the brief. And I expect the range will be even smaller once it's loaded up - as it invites you to do. It feels like the wrong decision for the target market.
But as others have said - I guess they were basically forced into this. I can't imagine that Citroen are happy about it either.
This will surely kill new Berlingo sales in the UK.
The exception for selling to a third party convertor is interesting. I guess they did this because a lot of them are converted for wheelchairs and they did not want to be accused of abandoning that market. But it may end up getting used as a workaround...
But as others have said - I guess they were basically forced into this. I can't imagine that Citroen are happy about it either.
This will surely kill new Berlingo sales in the UK.
The exception for selling to a third party convertor is interesting. I guess they did this because a lot of them are converted for wheelchairs and they did not want to be accused of abandoning that market. But it may end up getting used as a workaround...
My mum's wheelchair bound and has a motability Partner thing (Rifter?). They holiday in Cornwall and Wales each year so ev wouldn't suit them for those journeys, but it would for everything in between.
Makes sense them continuing to supply ICE powered versions to this market, but for how long?
Be interesting to see what the situation is in 2 years time when her car is due to go back. I think she can elect to buy it outright instead at that point.
Makes sense them continuing to supply ICE powered versions to this market, but for how long?
Be interesting to see what the situation is in 2 years time when her car is due to go back. I think she can elect to buy it outright instead at that point.
I'd have thought the obvious solution would be to continue producing the old car in small numbers for those who want ICE.
I think we're going to see a large number of mainstream cars going BEV only when they get refreshed; it feels like we're approaching that point of critical mass for EVs. Of course the Megane already has.
I think we're going to see a large number of mainstream cars going BEV only when they get refreshed; it feels like we're approaching that point of critical mass for EVs. Of course the Megane already has.
kambites said:
I'd have thought the obvious solution would be to continue producing the old car in small numbers for those who want ICE.
I think we're going to see a large number of mainstream cars going BEV only when they get refreshed; it feels like we're approaching that point of critical mass for EVs. Of course the Megane already has.
Definitely. Going to be quite a dramatic shift over the next few years. I expect uproar in certain quarters of PH!I think we're going to see a large number of mainstream cars going BEV only when they get refreshed; it feels like we're approaching that point of critical mass for EVs. Of course the Megane already has.
Ah, that's nice - instead of carrying on with the usual two grand Berlingos that that nice Mr Burnham will be charging a tenner a day for all the tradesmen around here can switch straight into brand new electric Berlingos. That way they'll avoid the next set of rules that'll probably mean scrapping the Euro6 vans they'll be looking at right now.
Brilliiiant. Anybody got a spare 30k for my electrician please? And same again for our Hermes courier? And the butcher? TIA
Brilliiiant. Anybody got a spare 30k for my electrician please? And same again for our Hermes courier? And the butcher? TIA
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