Are EV's the new Betamax? Is Hydrogen the actual solution?
Discussion
Caddyshack said:
Isn’t the problem how the hydrogen is produced in the first place…I think it may just move the non green problem to somewhere else in the chain.
Someone did explain it on here a while back.
I wouldn't worry about that just yet, you've got to solve the onboard storage problem first.Someone did explain it on here a while back.
All explained here in detail.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Caddyshack said:
Isn’t the problem how the hydrogen is produced in the first place…I think it may just move the non green problem to somewhere else in the chain.
Someone did explain it on here a while back.
Pretty much, I can't be bothered doing it now but the calculations are in excess of 3x the amount of electricity to travel the same distance as a BEV using hydrogen.Someone did explain it on here a while back.
PHuzzy said:
Caddyshack said:
Isn’t the problem how the hydrogen is produced in the first place…I think it may just move the non green problem to somewhere else in the chain.
Someone did explain it on here a while back.
Pretty much, I can't be bothered doing it now but the calculations are in excess of 3x the amount of electricity to travel the same distance as a BEV using hydrogen.Someone did explain it on here a while back.
Surely this thread is wind-up though.
Probably mentioned elsewhere on here but there was an interesting YT video by Harry’s Garage on using Hydrogen in future ICE see: https://youtu.be/19Q7nAYjAJY
Go out for a drive, how many BEV's do you see, make a note of that number and also the number of Hydrogen powered cars.
In 2021 I saw more steam powered vehicles on the road, which was a total of one, a Traction Engine sat steaming gently whilst the crew had a drink at a pub in Goostrey, cant recall seeing anything powered by Hydrogen, at least not a Mirai or er, any other of the multitude of new Hydrogen powered models available.....
It would have happened by now, like BEV's have if it was going to in the short to medium turn, always possibility of a breakthrough but it just looks so inefficient.
I see it as (Tell me if I am wrong) make electricity, send it by wires, charge battery, drive car.
Vs, Make electricity, send it by wires, do chemistry to make Hydrogen, store Hydrogen, move Hydrogen to somewhere else, fill car with Hydrogen, car converts Hydrogen to electricity and water, drive car.
Has a future for some applications, but cant see passenger cars going that way, at the end of the day though its kind of another type of battery, but cant see it being routinely used in modified versions of IC Engines.
I feel the future of passenger cars (in Western/Mature markets) is incremental improvements to BEV's until they don't need compromises and excuses made, except the noise thing obviously.
In 2021 I saw more steam powered vehicles on the road, which was a total of one, a Traction Engine sat steaming gently whilst the crew had a drink at a pub in Goostrey, cant recall seeing anything powered by Hydrogen, at least not a Mirai or er, any other of the multitude of new Hydrogen powered models available.....
It would have happened by now, like BEV's have if it was going to in the short to medium turn, always possibility of a breakthrough but it just looks so inefficient.
I see it as (Tell me if I am wrong) make electricity, send it by wires, charge battery, drive car.
Vs, Make electricity, send it by wires, do chemistry to make Hydrogen, store Hydrogen, move Hydrogen to somewhere else, fill car with Hydrogen, car converts Hydrogen to electricity and water, drive car.
Has a future for some applications, but cant see passenger cars going that way, at the end of the day though its kind of another type of battery, but cant see it being routinely used in modified versions of IC Engines.
I feel the future of passenger cars (in Western/Mature markets) is incremental improvements to BEV's until they don't need compromises and excuses made, except the noise thing obviously.
Gary C said:
PushedDover said:
No.
and the calorific value is unhelpful.
Err, the calorific value of Hydrogen is about 3 times that of petrol and the calorific value is unhelpful.
at about 142 MJ/kg against 45 MJ/kg
However, its density at atmospheric pressure is the problem, 1kg of hydrogen takes up a lot of space at 0 bar(g)
I meant the calorifc value of what one can store in a car is unhelpful.
LOHC is very interesting though for ships and alike where storage is less of an issue but very much 'wishful' at the mo.
In the very long term hydrogen is the answer right now but only when we have so much renewable excess electricity that’s too cheap to meter. That is so far away it’s not even worth discussing so apart from maybe lorries etc it’s not the viable option.
That may change depending on how in the meantime battery tech improves. If for example battery’s can be made from sand and don’t need any other toxic or rare materials then when we do have enough renewable electricity hydrogen simply won’t be needed.
That may change depending on how in the meantime battery tech improves. If for example battery’s can be made from sand and don’t need any other toxic or rare materials then when we do have enough renewable electricity hydrogen simply won’t be needed.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff