Why are EVs so expensive
Discussion
Read today a bloke in M-Benz said it will be years before battery cars become as cheap as engine cars.
Why is this? Are we being ripped off? What’s so special about a battery? After all, an engine is a complex piece of kit, requiring skill and knowledge to create and assemble. Whereas any fool could shove in a big battery. In fact, there already is a suggestion that, in the near future, instead of charging, drivers will just install a new battery.
I can't shake the feeling we're being played for fools, and being gouged by manufacturers.
Not that I'll be buying one any time soon - all my cars are last century; I pay cash for my cars; and the idea of paying North of 5k for a daily runaround strikes me as ludicrous
Why is this? Are we being ripped off? What’s so special about a battery? After all, an engine is a complex piece of kit, requiring skill and knowledge to create and assemble. Whereas any fool could shove in a big battery. In fact, there already is a suggestion that, in the near future, instead of charging, drivers will just install a new battery.
I can't shake the feeling we're being played for fools, and being gouged by manufacturers.
Not that I'll be buying one any time soon - all my cars are last century; I pay cash for my cars; and the idea of paying North of 5k for a daily runaround strikes me as ludicrous
WonkeyDonkey said:
It's a lot more expensive to aquire the materials for a battery.
Engines, whilst complex are fairly cheap to mass produce. It's just made up from casts made from various common metals. With a few plastic parts for the ancillaries.
This. There's literally a ton of incredibly expensive natural under the floor to make it work.Engines, whilst complex are fairly cheap to mass produce. It's just made up from casts made from various common metals. With a few plastic parts for the ancillaries.
Aluminium and other cheap alloys are easy.
mercedes... a company with a lot invested in the internal combustion getting peeved that they have been forced to adopt electric propulsion.
remember car companies do not want to give up fossil fuels. and they will bleat.
as car companies invest and the market starts to saturate you will find prices reduce. and the go chasing other segments of the market.
Imagine all the hurt that they are feeling.... and the anger that they are being forced to give up many years development to take on electric. and have to compete on the open market for the resources that electric cars require.
remember car companies do not want to give up fossil fuels. and they will bleat.
as car companies invest and the market starts to saturate you will find prices reduce. and the go chasing other segments of the market.
Imagine all the hurt that they are feeling.... and the anger that they are being forced to give up many years development to take on electric. and have to compete on the open market for the resources that electric cars require.
ajap1979 said:
tommy1973s said:
Not that I'll be buying one any time soon - all my cars are last century; I pay cash for my cars; and the idea of paying North of 5k for a daily runaround strikes me as ludicrous
Oh do bore off 
EVs are ground up in most cases, new platforms, drive trains, software, it just goes on and on, all that is very expensive to do, so manufacturers need to be making it back, EVs have smaller market share, so they are selling fewer but they need to cost more to recoup that cost. That’s why there’s so many luxury SUVs that are electric and not that many hatchbacks (and the ones that are nearly all platform share with other models and petrol and diesel ones - think 208, 208e 2008, 2008, mokka and corsa, ds3, c4, all on the same platform which spreads costs and reduces how much they need to cost.
A Q5 s line 50 TFSI is just under £50k, a etron 50 sline is about 65k, but currently the etron is the only car on that platform, where as the Q5 is not only long in the tooth but shares its platform with the macan and others.
A Q5 s line 50 TFSI is just under £50k, a etron 50 sline is about 65k, but currently the etron is the only car on that platform, where as the Q5 is not only long in the tooth but shares its platform with the macan and others.
Dingu said:
ajap1979 said:
tommy1973s said:
Not that I'll be buying one any time soon - all my cars are last century; I pay cash for my cars; and the idea of paying North of 5k for a daily runaround strikes me as ludicrous
Oh do bore off 
Nickbrapp said:
A Q5 s line 50 TFSI is just under £50k, a etron 50 sline is about 65k, but currently the etron is the only car on that platform, where as the Q5 is not only long in the tooth but shares its platform with the macan and others.
Also, slightly because manufacturers know how to market stuff like this, they know that people who are well off want to buy new things and show off a bit, have more income and are prepared to overspend to buy new things and tick a box, it is partly how Apple went from making basic computers to phones and music systems, they marketed it and presented it very well, charged people more than the competition, made sure they were well built initially to hook people in and then marketed them other stuff that looked nice on a coffee table. hence the Apple generation, hooked in for life.
they a re not massively green if you do your research, but they are a clever piece of marketing to make people with money buy new cars and spend far more than they ought to.
Fair play to manufacturers they got everyone hook line and sinker
they a re not massively green if you do your research, but they are a clever piece of marketing to make people with money buy new cars and spend far more than they ought to.
Fair play to manufacturers they got everyone hook line and sinker
Why is is so hard to understand that a massive EV battery manufactured at today's quantities has a particular cost associated with it, determined by how big the battery is.
It's not some sort of conspiracy, that's just what a battery costs.
But 'because EV,' it's got to be some sort of scam right.
Do your lose your s
t because you have to pay several quid for a 9V battery...of course not.
To put some perspective on this, the energy stored in a typical EV battery is about 10,000 times higher than a 9V battery.
Therefore you should be expecting to pay several tens of thousands of pounds for the EV battery on its own.
A battery that is far more sophisticated, rechargeable, long life and currently produced at relatively low volume....
Also, why would you ignore the fact that impending Government legislation is forcing manufacturers to sell EVs, and then blame the manufacturers for that.
It's not some sort of conspiracy, that's just what a battery costs.
But 'because EV,' it's got to be some sort of scam right.
Do your lose your s
t because you have to pay several quid for a 9V battery...of course not.To put some perspective on this, the energy stored in a typical EV battery is about 10,000 times higher than a 9V battery.
Therefore you should be expecting to pay several tens of thousands of pounds for the EV battery on its own.
A battery that is far more sophisticated, rechargeable, long life and currently produced at relatively low volume....
Also, why would you ignore the fact that impending Government legislation is forcing manufacturers to sell EVs, and then blame the manufacturers for that.
tommy1973s said:
Read today a bloke in M-Benz said it will be years before battery cars become as cheap as engine cars.
Why is this? Are we being ripped off? What’s so special about a battery? After all, an engine is a complex piece of kit, requiring skill and knowledge to create and assemble. Whereas any fool could shove in a big battery. In fact, there already is a suggestion that, in the near future, instead of charging, drivers will just install a new battery.
I can't shake the feeling we're being played for fools, and being gouged by manufacturers.
Not that I'll be buying one any time soon - all my cars are last century; I pay cash for my cars; and the idea of paying North of 5k for a daily runaround strikes me as ludicrous
I think you may be on the wrong forum. Try the Morris Marina Owners Club. You should feel right at home.Why is this? Are we being ripped off? What’s so special about a battery? After all, an engine is a complex piece of kit, requiring skill and knowledge to create and assemble. Whereas any fool could shove in a big battery. In fact, there already is a suggestion that, in the near future, instead of charging, drivers will just install a new battery.
I can't shake the feeling we're being played for fools, and being gouged by manufacturers.
Not that I'll be buying one any time soon - all my cars are last century; I pay cash for my cars; and the idea of paying North of 5k for a daily runaround strikes me as ludicrous
You might also ask why an iPhone 13 is £800+ but a Nokia 800 is £135. Both do more or less the same thing.
You might also ask why a boggo Cayman is a shade over £45k yet a GT4 is £30k more. Same car using a different selection of parts, and i don't believe for a second a GT4 engine is £20k more to manufacture than a standard 2.0 flat four.
ICE engines are a hugely mature and well understood technology with its component parts manufactured in plants that have huge scale economies and the ability to generate huge profits from 'performance models' as above.
Batteries may have been around for a long time, but EVs with acceptable performance are still relatively new and soaking up £b's in research and production, never mind the rare and raw materials used.
But are EV's expensive? You won't get one at £20k, but they are creeping below £40k. Most don't play that anyway as all people are bothered by are the monthly finance figures anyway, so are they comparable?
Whole life cost has to come into it to. What on an EV really wears out? Even batteries appear to be much longer lasting than anyone thought 10 years ago. No reason why an EV lifespan shouldn't be a lot longer than an ICE car as there's much less to go wrong and wear out.
You might also ask why a boggo Cayman is a shade over £45k yet a GT4 is £30k more. Same car using a different selection of parts, and i don't believe for a second a GT4 engine is £20k more to manufacture than a standard 2.0 flat four.
ICE engines are a hugely mature and well understood technology with its component parts manufactured in plants that have huge scale economies and the ability to generate huge profits from 'performance models' as above.
Batteries may have been around for a long time, but EVs with acceptable performance are still relatively new and soaking up £b's in research and production, never mind the rare and raw materials used.
But are EV's expensive? You won't get one at £20k, but they are creeping below £40k. Most don't play that anyway as all people are bothered by are the monthly finance figures anyway, so are they comparable?
Whole life cost has to come into it to. What on an EV really wears out? Even batteries appear to be much longer lasting than anyone thought 10 years ago. No reason why an EV lifespan shouldn't be a lot longer than an ICE car as there's much less to go wrong and wear out.
ruggedscotty said:
mercedes... a company with a lot invested in the internal combustion getting peeved that they have been forced to adopt electric propulsion.
remember car companies do not want to give up fossil fuels. and they will bleat.
as car companies invest and the market starts to saturate you will find prices reduce. and the go chasing other segments of the market.
Imagine all the hurt that they are feeling.... and the anger that they are being forced to give up many years development to take on electric. and have to compete on the open market for the resources that electric cars require.
They don’t have a choice. They will legally have to stop selling ICEs soon. There’s a new law being reviewed now to force 50% of sold cars to be EV by 2028. The switch is being accelerated. remember car companies do not want to give up fossil fuels. and they will bleat.
as car companies invest and the market starts to saturate you will find prices reduce. and the go chasing other segments of the market.
Imagine all the hurt that they are feeling.... and the anger that they are being forced to give up many years development to take on electric. and have to compete on the open market for the resources that electric cars require.
I wonder if a consumer lifestyle product has ever been priced on cost+. EVs are very easy for manufacturers. They can charge (sorry) whatever they want for them as they know governments will subsidise them. There is surely virtually no margin or price pressure currently. I would be utterly amazed if EVs will go down in price. People now clearly expect EVs to be expensive and once you have managed to establish a price expectation you obviously want to maintain it. These are very good times for manufacturers as they are successfully pushing the problem of price onto governments. Tesla is worth gazillions for a reason.
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