Queuing Etiquette
Discussion
My new EV is due for delivery at the end of October. I’ve not had one before but since placing the order I’ve been checking the availability of chargers whenever I come across them (second guessing my range anxiety before I even have an EV!)
Despite being a nation that supposedly loves a queue, not all queues are created equal and I’m not sure which category EV chargers fall into…
Post office - Strictly first come first served with a clearly defined single queue, even where there are multiple counters
Barbers - First come first served, but need to take stock of who’s in the queue when you arrive because people just sit in an available seat rather than an organised line.
Petrol pump/supermarket - Pick a till and stick to it, inevitably watching all the others move quicker than yours.
Pub/Bar - We know how this works and it’s only nominally first come first served!
I’m assuming that queuing for an EV charger is most likely to follow the barber model but unfortunately, this is the type of queue I dislike the most…
Despite being a nation that supposedly loves a queue, not all queues are created equal and I’m not sure which category EV chargers fall into…
Post office - Strictly first come first served with a clearly defined single queue, even where there are multiple counters
Barbers - First come first served, but need to take stock of who’s in the queue when you arrive because people just sit in an available seat rather than an organised line.
Petrol pump/supermarket - Pick a till and stick to it, inevitably watching all the others move quicker than yours.
Pub/Bar - We know how this works and it’s only nominally first come first served!
I’m assuming that queuing for an EV charger is most likely to follow the barber model but unfortunately, this is the type of queue I dislike the most…
I've had to queue both at motorway services and off. I'm now 2 years in to EV ownership so it is not just a case of an unlucky one off. Having said that I've not queued that often and also have been able to just ignore and move on to the next stop and charge there.
Generally I've found things to be friendly though at motorway services it is hard to queue as there is no facility and you may not be able to park near by. I have seen a few arguments but normally due to misunderstandings as more and more of the Gridserve chargers have two power cables but have not yet been enabled to dual charge. At other locations queueing has been easier as there is space to hover. Also I find many people who leave their cars charging come back when they are about 80%, very few wait for a full charge, though I did encounter a Polestar 2 that had been plugged in for close to 4 hours (on a 50 kW charger).
Queueing is getting slightly worse, and not just for non-Teslas - I have seen arguments at Supercharger stations as well.
Generally I've found things to be friendly though at motorway services it is hard to queue as there is no facility and you may not be able to park near by. I have seen a few arguments but normally due to misunderstandings as more and more of the Gridserve chargers have two power cables but have not yet been enabled to dual charge. At other locations queueing has been easier as there is space to hover. Also I find many people who leave their cars charging come back when they are about 80%, very few wait for a full charge, though I did encounter a Polestar 2 that had been plugged in for close to 4 hours (on a 50 kW charger).
Queueing is getting slightly worse, and not just for non-Teslas - I have seen arguments at Supercharger stations as well.
SWoll said:
What EV and how much public charging do you expect to do for your usage?
We're on our third having run solely EV since April 2019, have covered 40k+ miles in that time and never once queued for a charger.
I’m getting an I Pace delivered at the end of October - I work from home but once a month or so need to drive from Lichfield to Poole (approx 180 miles) which should be fine in the summer but may be on the limit in the depths of winter. I’ll only need a splash&dash if I need anything so am not overly concerned but I’ve checked out the chargers on the services when I’ve been making the trip recently and there have been a few occasions where they were all in use…We're on our third having run solely EV since April 2019, have covered 40k+ miles in that time and never once queued for a charger.
(I’ve yet to check out where the most convenient chargers are just off-route but I’ll probably be an expert by February!)
It is amazing how on this forum, folk immediately start telling you that you won't ever need to charge up (because they don't), when they have no idea about your usage at all. I experienced the same as the OP from the many armchair experts.
Fact is, in the last twelve months public charging has steadily improved, and it continues to do so. So far, so good. The downside is that there are also many more EV's on the roads, looking to utilise this improved infrastructure. I am convinced that a proportion of these folk (who are new to EV's) actually don't need to charge, but do so for reassurance.
Your usage sounds not dissimilar to mine - mostly local journeys, punctuated by longer road trips for work every two to three weeks. I am also on my third EV, if that matters at all. Later this week I will be going Kent, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Coventry, Kent. I might be able to charge overnight in Manchester, definitely can in Leeds, and probably will be unable to at the other stops. These are regular runs to projects, and I have learnt the charging infrastructure in the respective localities well, as well as knowing what my timings will permit. The only certain thing is that somewhere I will stopping for a charge, and in all probability more than once.
My experience, for what it is worth, is the risk of queues is much lower (for now) if you take a short detour off of the major motoways. Often the fast chargers are in slightly unglamorous locations such as business parks or industrial estates (with several that I use semi-regularly not even having toilet provision, never mind refreshment), but getting on the post is easier, and they tend to be more reliable than the service areas and other busy locations as a bonus.
I find ZapMap useful for locating chargers, but useless for telling whether they are working or not - ABRP is better in that respect. My "golden rules" are to always leave enough "leeway" to get to another charger in case the one you are heading for is inoperative and, above all, to plan ahead. It takes a bit of getting used to at first, but now my journeys are no longer than they were in an ICE car, as I choreograph where possible my lunch/cup of tea/toilet stops with a charge. When that is not possible, I try to make the stop as short as possible to get me where I need to go. This latter mindset was initially completely alien to me as I was always a brim to empty ICE driver, and doing the electric equivalent of a "splash and dash" felt all wrong at first.
But you adjust, and you get used to it. Having a short break to reply to emails, etc becomes second nature and leaves less admin to clear when you arrive at your destination, which also has benefits.
Don't underestimate the adjustment - it will take a while. Once you have made it though, you will not want to go back.
Fact is, in the last twelve months public charging has steadily improved, and it continues to do so. So far, so good. The downside is that there are also many more EV's on the roads, looking to utilise this improved infrastructure. I am convinced that a proportion of these folk (who are new to EV's) actually don't need to charge, but do so for reassurance.
Your usage sounds not dissimilar to mine - mostly local journeys, punctuated by longer road trips for work every two to three weeks. I am also on my third EV, if that matters at all. Later this week I will be going Kent, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Coventry, Kent. I might be able to charge overnight in Manchester, definitely can in Leeds, and probably will be unable to at the other stops. These are regular runs to projects, and I have learnt the charging infrastructure in the respective localities well, as well as knowing what my timings will permit. The only certain thing is that somewhere I will stopping for a charge, and in all probability more than once.
My experience, for what it is worth, is the risk of queues is much lower (for now) if you take a short detour off of the major motoways. Often the fast chargers are in slightly unglamorous locations such as business parks or industrial estates (with several that I use semi-regularly not even having toilet provision, never mind refreshment), but getting on the post is easier, and they tend to be more reliable than the service areas and other busy locations as a bonus.
I find ZapMap useful for locating chargers, but useless for telling whether they are working or not - ABRP is better in that respect. My "golden rules" are to always leave enough "leeway" to get to another charger in case the one you are heading for is inoperative and, above all, to plan ahead. It takes a bit of getting used to at first, but now my journeys are no longer than they were in an ICE car, as I choreograph where possible my lunch/cup of tea/toilet stops with a charge. When that is not possible, I try to make the stop as short as possible to get me where I need to go. This latter mindset was initially completely alien to me as I was always a brim to empty ICE driver, and doing the electric equivalent of a "splash and dash" felt all wrong at first.
But you adjust, and you get used to it. Having a short break to reply to emails, etc becomes second nature and leaves less admin to clear when you arrive at your destination, which also has benefits.
Don't underestimate the adjustment - it will take a while. Once you have made it though, you will not want to go back.
In my experience it’s the barber model and it’s quite ad-hoc how this actually works in practice as you can imagine but people are normally good about it. I don’t recall there ever being a problem but I have heard of overflowing areas around chargers on BH weekends and some confusion and perhaps aggro. It’s best to avoid peak travel times obviously.
distinctivedesign said:
It is amazing how on this forum, folk immediately start telling you that you won't ever need to charge up (because they don't), when they have no idea about your usage at all. I experienced the same as the OP from the many armchair experts.
Fact is, in the last twelve months public charging has steadily improved, and it continues to do so. So far, so good. The downside is that there are also many more EV's on the roads, looking to utilise this improved infrastructure. I am convinced that a proportion of these folk (who are new to EV's) actually don't need to charge, but do so for reassurance.
Your usage sounds not dissimilar to mine - mostly local journeys, punctuated by longer road trips for work every two to three weeks. I am also on my third EV, if that matters at all. Later this week I will be going Kent, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Coventry, Kent. I might be able to charge overnight in Manchester, definitely can in Leeds, and probably will be unable to at the other stops. These are regular runs to projects, and I have learnt the charging infrastructure in the respective localities well, as well as knowing what my timings will permit. The only certain thing is that somewhere I will stopping for a charge, and in all probability more than once.
My experience, for what it is worth, is the risk of queues is much lower (for now) if you take a short detour off of the major motoways. Often the fast chargers are in slightly unglamorous locations such as business parks or industrial estates (with several that I use semi-regularly not even having toilet provision, never mind refreshment), but getting on the post is easier, and they tend to be more reliable than the service areas and other busy locations as a bonus.
I find ZapMap useful for locating chargers, but useless for telling whether they are working or not - ABRP is better in that respect. My "golden rules" are to always leave enough "leeway" to get to another charger in case the one you are heading for is inoperative and, above all, to plan ahead. It takes a bit of getting used to at first, but now my journeys are no longer than they were in an ICE car, as I choreograph where possible my lunch/cup of tea/toilet stops with a charge. When that is not possible, I try to make the stop as short as possible to get me where I need to go. This latter mindset was initially completely alien to me as I was always a brim to empty ICE driver, and doing the electric equivalent of a "splash and dash" felt all wrong at first.
But you adjust, and you get used to it. Having a short break to reply to emails, etc becomes second nature and leaves less admin to clear when you arrive at your destination, which also has benefits.
Don't underestimate the adjustment - it will take a while. Once you have made it though, you will not want to go back.
Good reply.Fact is, in the last twelve months public charging has steadily improved, and it continues to do so. So far, so good. The downside is that there are also many more EV's on the roads, looking to utilise this improved infrastructure. I am convinced that a proportion of these folk (who are new to EV's) actually don't need to charge, but do so for reassurance.
Your usage sounds not dissimilar to mine - mostly local journeys, punctuated by longer road trips for work every two to three weeks. I am also on my third EV, if that matters at all. Later this week I will be going Kent, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Coventry, Kent. I might be able to charge overnight in Manchester, definitely can in Leeds, and probably will be unable to at the other stops. These are regular runs to projects, and I have learnt the charging infrastructure in the respective localities well, as well as knowing what my timings will permit. The only certain thing is that somewhere I will stopping for a charge, and in all probability more than once.
My experience, for what it is worth, is the risk of queues is much lower (for now) if you take a short detour off of the major motoways. Often the fast chargers are in slightly unglamorous locations such as business parks or industrial estates (with several that I use semi-regularly not even having toilet provision, never mind refreshment), but getting on the post is easier, and they tend to be more reliable than the service areas and other busy locations as a bonus.
I find ZapMap useful for locating chargers, but useless for telling whether they are working or not - ABRP is better in that respect. My "golden rules" are to always leave enough "leeway" to get to another charger in case the one you are heading for is inoperative and, above all, to plan ahead. It takes a bit of getting used to at first, but now my journeys are no longer than they were in an ICE car, as I choreograph where possible my lunch/cup of tea/toilet stops with a charge. When that is not possible, I try to make the stop as short as possible to get me where I need to go. This latter mindset was initially completely alien to me as I was always a brim to empty ICE driver, and doing the electric equivalent of a "splash and dash" felt all wrong at first.
But you adjust, and you get used to it. Having a short break to reply to emails, etc becomes second nature and leaves less admin to clear when you arrive at your destination, which also has benefits.
Don't underestimate the adjustment - it will take a while. Once you have made it though, you will not want to go back.
Need to know your usage style, the range of your model & whether you can charge at home.
We are 38k miles in, & due to rarely going over 200 miles on a round trip AND having a home charger, we have never queued….& only filled up ‘in public’ less than a dozen times, several of those because we wanted to try it.
distinctivedesign said:
It is amazing how on this forum, folk immediately start telling you that you won't ever need to charge up (because they don't), when they have no idea about your usage at all. I experienced the same as the OP from the many armchair experts.
Hence asking about the EV, usage and pointing out that queueing isn't a common issue IME. Where has anyone said you won't ever need to charge, and who are these armchair experts you refer to?When I used my sisters Tesla, there were a few instances of queues (max 15 mins). I found it was fine when there were 2 or more cars queuing as it was obvious it was a queue and a couple of other people joined the queue behind us. It was a tiny bit more aggy when it was just you queuing and a few Tesla drivers would just drive past you to try and charge. In this instance "I dominated the car park" and moved close to the soon to be departing Tesla driver who was disconnecting his cable.
The once or twice that all chargers have been occupied we've just driven to another one.
Some car parks have time restrictions so if you're waiting for a charger you could end up with a fine by the time you've finished charging.
It's basically a non-issue at the moment unless the charger is free.
Some car parks have time restrictions so if you're waiting for a charger you could end up with a fine by the time you've finished charging.
It's basically a non-issue at the moment unless the charger is free.
vikingaero said:
When I used my sisters Tesla, there were a few instances of queues (max 15 mins). I found it was fine when there were 2 or more cars queuing as it was obvious it was a queue and a couple of other people joined the queue behind us. It was a tiny bit more aggy when it was just you queuing and a few Tesla drivers would just drive past you to try and charge. In this instance "I dominated the car park" and moved close to the soon to be departing Tesla driver who was disconnecting his cable.
Haha, this is the concern I have for the summer holidays in the next few weeks, where I'll be unable to charge at my AirBnB (although I am taking an extension lead...just in case)The other advantage of the Tesla chargers is that they will restrict charging if all bays are taken (to 80% iirc). This ensures the cars on charge do so swiftly and move on, keeping queuing to a minimum. That, combined with 'idle fees' if you're plugged in and not charging.
3rd-party chargers lack this as far as I'm aware, so you could have Doris charging at an extremely slow rate on a fast charger trying to eek their car to 100% unnecessarily.
Is there functionality in the likes of Gridserve / Ionity to detect an element of 'charger hogging' to keep customers moving swiftly?
DMZ said:
Ionity solves it with ludicrous kWh rates. You won’t hang around there for too long.
Doesn't matter if a lot of cars can't go over 100kWEdited by ZesPak on Tuesday 26th July 14:53
Toaster Pilot said:
ZesPak said:
I've only ever seen a maximum of 2 ionity chargers in one location.
Really? I’ve not seen less than 4 at the various sites I’ve used in the UK, often 6 and with clear capacity built in for more. Thought this was one of their main selling points!Still, my point stands. High kW won't help you if most cars can't take them yet. A new ID3 tops out at 130kW for example.
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