Cost to Employer - PHEV Vs EV

[a.foster3785]

Hoping someone can shed some light. I’ve done a few searches both in PH and Google, but to no avail.

Im currently in talks with a business who have approached me and want me to join their business.

They are currently formulating a formal offer for me to consider, as part of that they are offering a ‘Company Car’.

They seem to have been advised (rightly or wrongly?) that to make it work financially, the car must be EV? However I’ve been looking at a PHEV due to other requirements (7 seater) and want to understand what bearing the type of car/fuel has on whether it stacks up for a business? Does it effect the cost the Employer incurs?

Apart from the difference in BIK which I understand is a cost I pay (via PAYE), which in this instance is EV at 2% vs PHEV at 8%, the only thing I can think of that will differ for them as the Employer is the amount they pay NIC on the BIK amount?

I want to suggest the PHEV, but before I do I want to be confident the difference in minimal or low enough to allow it to be put on the table as an option.

Anyone help? Sorry first company car, previously only ever had car allowances. Thanks

[TheDeuce]

The bik is the killer. I'm assuming you're at the 40% tax rate already so do you want to pay 40% of 8% of the cars value each year, or 40% of 2% of it?

You ideally want a Tesla model X if seven seater and range are chief considerations.

It'll also be far cheaper to run than the phev, you'll get charged bik on the fuel for the phev too...

[a.foster3785]

TheDeuce said:

The bik is the killer. I'm assuming you're at the 40% tax rate already so do you want to pay 40% of 8% of the cars value each year, or 40% of 2% of it?

You ideally want a Tesla model X if seven seater and range are chief considerations.

It'll also be far cheaper to run than the phev, you'll get charged bik on the fuel for the phev too...

Of course I’d much prefer to pay the least possible amount, but even on 40% tax rate and 8% BIK it equates to £203.00 pm. Not a huge amount to be in a circa £76k SUV.

[TheDeuce]

a.foster3785 said:

TheDeuce said:

The bik is the killer. I'm assuming you're at the 40% tax rate already so do you want to pay 40% of 8% of the cars value each year, or 40% of 2% of it?

You ideally want a Tesla model X if seven seater and range are chief considerations.

It'll also be far cheaper to run than the phev, you'll get charged bik on the fuel for the phev too...

Of course I’d much prefer to pay the least possible amount, but even on 40% tax rate and 8% BIK it equates to £203.00 pm. Not a huge amount to be in a circa £76k SUV.

Well it's £2400 a year vs £600, plus whatever the BIK is on the fuel for private use now, and I'm not up to date enough to know the NIC effects, but that's surely pumped up by the higher BIK valuation.

Is there a reason you wouldn't want the full EV? Costs aside EV SUV's are better to drive in many ways than ICE SUV's and many are better laid out too, with all the ICE drivetrain gubbins banished.

[Auslander]

If you do go EV, check the arrangements for reimbursing you for business miles.

The HMRC advisory rate for business mileage reimbursement is just 5p / mile.

Even using home charging, this means you could end up spending more on charging than you get back. You'll be wanting a charging card / app that directly bills the company for business travel, ideally.

[TheDeuce]

Auslander said:

If you do go EV, check the arrangements for reimbursing you for business miles.

The HMRC advisory rate for business mileage reimbursement is just 5p / mile.

Even using home charging, this means you could end up spending more on charging than you get back. You'll be wanting a charging card / app that directly bills the company for business travel, ideally.

5p per mile is probably more than it costs using a cheap at home tariff - so really a non issue vs the other far greater costs of EV vs ICE as a company car.

That's if cost is an issue at all, this guy might just want a certain PHEV and to hell with the costs, which is fair enough.

[a.foster3785]

TheDeuce said:

a.foster3785 said:

TheDeuce said:

The bik is the killer. I'm assuming you're at the 40% tax rate already so do you want to pay 40% of 8% of the cars value each year, or 40% of 2% of it?

You ideally want a Tesla model X if seven seater and range are chief considerations.

It'll also be far cheaper to run than the phev, you'll get charged bik on the fuel for the phev too...

Of course I’d much prefer to pay the least possible amount, but even on 40% tax rate and 8% BIK it equates to £203.00 pm. Not a huge amount to be in a circa £76k SUV.

Well it's £2400 a year vs £600, plus whatever the BIK is on the fuel for private use now, and I'm not up to date enough to know the NIC effects, but that's surely pumped up by the higher BIK valuation.

Is there a reason you wouldn't want the full EV? Costs aside EV SUV's are better to drive in many ways than ICE SUV's and many are better laid out too, with all the ICE drivetrain gubbins banished.

Not against the idea of a full EV SUV, just the options for 7 seaters are somewhat limited. Whereas PHEV opens up other options. XC90, X5 etc to name a few.

[a.foster3785]

Auslander said:

If you do go EV, check the arrangements for reimbursing you for business miles.

The HMRC advisory rate for business mileage reimbursement is just 5p / mile.

Even using home charging, this means you could end up spending more on charging than you get back. You'll be wanting a charging card / app that directly bills the company for business travel, ideally.

These type of things I need to look into, but at the moment it’s confirming whether the additional costs for an Employer to provide a EV over say a PHEV are that significant it will force me down the EV route.

[Auslander]

TheDeuce said:

5p per mile is probably more than it costs using a cheap at home tariff - so really a non issue vs the other far greater costs of EV vs ICE as a company car.

That's if cost is an issue at all, this guy might just want a certain PHEV and to hell with the costs, which is fair enough.

Very marginal - I reckon you'd close to 4p / mile on a larger EV and the Octopus 12p/kWh for 4 hours overnight rate.

But you pay more during the day, so need to adjust your domestic use, too.

And that 4 hours may not even cover that day's driving, so if you add in some public charging and don't have a company charging card, you could be losing out in a big way.

[TheDeuce]

a.foster3785 said:

TheDeuce said:

a.foster3785 said:

TheDeuce said:

The bik is the killer. I'm assuming you're at the 40% tax rate already so do you want to pay 40% of 8% of the cars value each year, or 40% of 2% of it?

You ideally want a Tesla model X if seven seater and range are chief considerations.

It'll also be far cheaper to run than the phev, you'll get charged bik on the fuel for the phev too...

Of course I’d much prefer to pay the least possible amount, but even on 40% tax rate and 8% BIK it equates to £203.00 pm. Not a huge amount to be in a circa £76k SUV.

Well it's £2400 a year vs £600, plus whatever the BIK is on the fuel for private use now, and I'm not up to date enough to know the NIC effects, but that's surely pumped up by the higher BIK valuation.

Is there a reason you wouldn't want the full EV? Costs aside EV SUV's are better to drive in many ways than ICE SUV's and many are better laid out too, with all the ICE drivetrain gubbins banished.

Not against the idea of a full EV SUV, just the options for 7 seaters are somewhat limited. Whereas PHEV opens up other options. XC90, X5 etc to name a few.

Is there a limit as to value of what you can choose? I had a look around a top spec Mercedes EQV which was just gorgeous... albeit range and power are not the best.

Perhaps the EQB is a more realistic option: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mercedes...

Or as ever, the Tesla X if you fancy something with a bit of a sense of humour, but that is also extremely practical and easy to live with.

I would suggest you take a decent EV SUV out for a drive and go from there - even if it's not one you specifically want. No way of knowing if EV will appeal to you otherwise.

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 14th November 20:28

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 14th November 20:29

[TheDeuce]

Auslander said:

TheDeuce said:

5p per mile is probably more than it costs using a cheap at home tariff - so really a non issue vs the other far greater costs of EV vs ICE as a company car.

That's if cost is an issue at all, this guy might just want a certain PHEV and to hell with the costs, which is fair enough.

Very marginal - I reckon you'd close to 4p / mile on a larger EV and the Octopus 12p/kWh for 4 hours overnight rate.

But you pay more during the day, so need to adjust your domestic use, too.

And that 4 hours may not even cover that day's driving, so if you add in some public charging and don't have a company charging card, you could be losing out in a big way.

It's a minimum six hour cheap rate, and typically more like 8 hours - some of the cheap rate is given out dynamically depending on power excess on the grid. I've never had less than 8 hours - which keeps the car fully charged.

[Auslander]

TheDeuce said:

It's a minimum six hour cheap rate, and typically more like 8 hours - some of the cheap rate is given out dynamically depending on power excess on the grid. I've never had less than 8 hours - which keeps the car fully charged.

[a.foster3785]

TheDeuce said:

a.foster3785 said:

TheDeuce said:

a.foster3785 said:

TheDeuce said:

The bik is the killer. I'm assuming you're at the 40% tax rate already so do you want to pay 40% of 8% of the cars value each year, or 40% of 2% of it?

You ideally want a Tesla model X if seven seater and range are chief considerations.

It'll also be far cheaper to run than the phev, you'll get charged bik on the fuel for the phev too...

Of course I’d much prefer to pay the least possible amount, but even on 40% tax rate and 8% BIK it equates to £203.00 pm. Not a huge amount to be in a circa £76k SUV.

Well it's £2400 a year vs £600, plus whatever the BIK is on the fuel for private use now, and I'm not up to date enough to know the NIC effects, but that's surely pumped up by the higher BIK valuation.

Is there a reason you wouldn't want the full EV? Costs aside EV SUV's are better to drive in many ways than ICE SUV's and many are better laid out too, with all the ICE drivetrain gubbins banished.

Not against the idea of a full EV SUV, just the options for 7 seaters are somewhat limited. Whereas PHEV opens up other options. XC90, X5 etc to name a few.

Is there a limit as to value of what you can choose? I had a look around a top spec Mercedes EQV which was just gorgeous... albeit range and power are not the best.

Perhaps the EQB is a more realistic option: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mercedes...

Or as ever, the Tesla X if you fancy something with a bit of a sense of humour, but that is also extremely practical and easy to live with,

I’m sure there will be, just not something that hasn’t yet been discussed.

I suppose it will be a case that I put forward a car, they crunch number and the overall package takes into account the cost of said car or they simply say it’s too expensive!

I did look at the EQB, not had a physical look or drive in one. But offers on them seem to be reasonable.

I think in reality the Model X will be way to pricey.

[TheDeuce]

Auslander said:

TheDeuce said:

It's a minimum six hour cheap rate, and typically more like 8 hours - some of the cheap rate is given out dynamically depending on power excess on the grid. I've never had less than 8 hours - which keeps the car fully charged.

Why have you posted this?

I'm on intelligent Octopus, which is 6 hours and additional hours offered to any plugged in car several times a day/night.

Do you have an EV?

[Auslander]

TheDeuce said:

Why have you posted this?

I'm on intelligent Octopus, which is 6 hours and additional hours offered to any plugged in car several times a day/night.

Do you have an EV?

I posted it because that's what Octopus are offering new customers.

My ownership or not of an EV doesn't matter. That's what I'd get if I wanted to move to Octopus if I bought one. I already have a charger installed as I used to have one.

[TheDeuce]

a.foster3785 said:

I’m sure there will be, just not something that hasn’t yet been discussed.

I suppose it will be a case that I put forward a car, they crunch number and the overall package takes into account the cost of said car or they simply say it’s too expensive!

I did look at the EQB, not had a physical look or drive in one. But offers on them seem to be reasonable.

I think in reality the Model X will be way to pricey.

The model X is pricey at retail, although as a lease proposition and including the extra NIC they pay on a PHEV, it may be no extra to the company. Definitely a conversation to be had.

I will admit there isn't a great selection of seven seater EV's in the UK just yet, but if the model X was an option, you'd be mad to not take a look/drive of one.

[TheDeuce]

Auslander said:

TheDeuce said:

Why have you posted this?

I'm on intelligent Octopus, which is 6 hours and additional hours offered to any plugged in car several times a day/night.

Do you have an EV?

I posted it because that's what Octopus are offering new customers.

My ownership or not of an EV doesn't matter. That's what I'd get if I wanted to move to Octopus if I bought one. I already have a charger installed as I used to have one.

You'd get the same as me: https://octopus.energy/intelligent-octopus/

You're looking at Octopus Go, not intelligent Octopus. you can sign up anytime so long as your charger and/or EV is compatible.

From the OP's perspective they don't have a charger yet so can certainly ensure they choose a compatible one should they go the EV route.

[Auslander]

Fair enough, for some reason it didn't show me that for my postcode.

[TheDeuce]

Auslander said:

Fair enough, for some reason it didn't show me that for my postcode.

For whatever reason they don't make it obvious/easy to find. But if you sign up to 'Go', they offer Intelligent at that point.

It's available for anyone who has suitable hardware. I get at least 8 hours cheap rate but several times when I have plugged in at close to zero % it has fully charged the car (aso about 10 hours cheap rate) and anything else that is using power at the same time gets that rate too. I would say we have managed to shift so much stuff to cheap rate now that we have fully offset the 7p per unit above the cap increased day rate, which is of course the point.

Our average per kwh is now about 16p I think. The cap is 34p flat rate for those without an EV, and soon to be 60p+, then 80p+ when the cap is removed apparently!

A company EV could save a household thousands a year in energy costs if the situation gets as bad as is predicted - in addition to the BIK savings.

[a.foster3785]

TheDeuce said:

The model X is pricey at retail, although as a lease proposition and including the extra NIC they pay on a PHEV, it may be no extra to the company. Definitely a conversation to be had.

I will admit there isn't a great selection of seven seater EV's in the UK just yet, but if the model X was an option, you'd be mad to not take a look/drive of one.

I’ll definitely look into the X, as it definitely ticks the EV and 7 Seater boxes.