Hybrid Range on Electric?
Discussion
I'm not aware of any PHEV's which will do 100+ miles, let alone 'real world' miles.
One of the most efficient is the Hyundai Ioniq PHEV which will do 30-39 miles.
The newest Mercedes C300e has a decent-sized battery for a PHEV, but even then the manufacturers' claim is 68 miles (which is really good, but nowhere near 100+).
The problem is weight. PHEVs utilise a small battery (typically less than 10kWh). The use-case for these cars is if you do lots of short-distances regularly but need to have the ability to go further, and you can charge from home. A great many PHEVs have very basic on-board AC-chargers also, meaning slow charge speeds - making public charging virtually pointless unless it's free.
The new Mercedes bucks that trend with a 25kWh battery and fast-charging capability, but it's unique as far as I'm aware.
One of the most efficient is the Hyundai Ioniq PHEV which will do 30-39 miles.
The newest Mercedes C300e has a decent-sized battery for a PHEV, but even then the manufacturers' claim is 68 miles (which is really good, but nowhere near 100+).
The problem is weight. PHEVs utilise a small battery (typically less than 10kWh). The use-case for these cars is if you do lots of short-distances regularly but need to have the ability to go further, and you can charge from home. A great many PHEVs have very basic on-board AC-chargers also, meaning slow charge speeds - making public charging virtually pointless unless it's free.
The new Mercedes bucks that trend with a 25kWh battery and fast-charging capability, but it's unique as far as I'm aware.
C.A.R. said:
The new Mercedes bucks that trend with a 25kWh battery and fast-charging capability, but it's unique as far as I'm aware.
Some of the JLR PHEVs are like this as well. 50mile range and rapid charging.The problem is PHEVs aren't usually very efficient on electric (think 2-3 miles/kWh) so a 100 mile range will need a 35-50kWh battery. Which is well within the area of decent EVs.
blank said:
Some of the JLR PHEVs are like this as well. 50mile range and rapid charging.
The problem is PHEVs aren't usually very efficient on electric (think 2-3 miles/kWh) so a 100 mile range will need a 35-50kWh battery. Which is well within the area of decent EVs.
Now that’s just lol. I tend to average 3.4-3.8 mi/kwh in the Passat round town. The problem is PHEVs aren't usually very efficient on electric (think 2-3 miles/kWh) so a 100 mile range will need a 35-50kWh battery. Which is well within the area of decent EVs.
paradigital said:
blank said:
Some of the JLR PHEVs are like this as well. 50mile range and rapid charging.
The problem is PHEVs aren't usually very efficient on electric (think 2-3 miles/kWh) so a 100 mile range will need a 35-50kWh battery. Which is well within the area of decent EVs.
Now that’s just lol. I tend to average 3.4-3.8 mi/kwh in the Passat round town. The problem is PHEVs aren't usually very efficient on electric (think 2-3 miles/kWh) so a 100 mile range will need a 35-50kWh battery. Which is well within the area of decent EVs.
The phev’s with the highest official range are both 70 miles - latest range rover and Range Rover sport. There is nothing more than that and def nothing 100 miles theoretical never mind real world.
I had a 2015 bmw i3 Rex which was 60 miles real world in winter and 85-90 real world in summer but the next model was 50% better than that so would manage 100 real world miles most of the year
I had a 2015 bmw i3 Rex which was 60 miles real world in winter and 85-90 real world in summer but the next model was 50% better than that so would manage 100 real world miles most of the year
The other problem with PHEVs (or EVs for that matter) is that unlike petrol or diesel, the energy used by the electric motor is directly proportional to speed.
i.e. the advertised maximum range is likely achieved when bumbling around town at no more than 30. This is evident from the instantaneous energy use display.
Thus if you were planning a trip of 100 miles from a vehicle with a 100 range it would have to be a painfully slow journey, in the summer with no electric accessories running.
Interestingly, ICE engines are often most efficient around the 50 to 60 mph mark. I have witnessed this first hand having been driving an X1 PHEV for 2 years.
i.e. the advertised maximum range is likely achieved when bumbling around town at no more than 30. This is evident from the instantaneous energy use display.
Thus if you were planning a trip of 100 miles from a vehicle with a 100 range it would have to be a painfully slow journey, in the summer with no electric accessories running.
Interestingly, ICE engines are often most efficient around the 50 to 60 mph mark. I have witnessed this first hand having been driving an X1 PHEV for 2 years.
Andy86GT said:
The other problem with PHEVs (or EVs for that matter) is that unlike petrol or diesel, the energy used by the electric motor is directly proportional to speed.
i.e. the advertised maximum range is likely achieved when bumbling around town at no more than 30. This is evident from the instantaneous energy use display.
Thus if you were planning a trip of 100 miles from a vehicle with a 100 range it would have to be a painfully slow journey, in the summer with no electric accessories running.
Interestingly, ICE engines are often most efficient around the 50 to 60 mph mark. I have witnessed this first hand having been driving an X1 PHEV for 2 years.
Or drive normally and charge for 5 minutes.i.e. the advertised maximum range is likely achieved when bumbling around town at no more than 30. This is evident from the instantaneous energy use display.
Thus if you were planning a trip of 100 miles from a vehicle with a 100 range it would have to be a painfully slow journey, in the summer with no electric accessories running.
Interestingly, ICE engines are often most efficient around the 50 to 60 mph mark. I have witnessed this first hand having been driving an X1 PHEV for 2 years.
Andy86GT said:
The other problem with PHEVs (or EVs for that matter) is that unlike petrol or diesel, the energy used by the electric motor is directly proportional to speed.
i.e. the advertised maximum range is likely achieved when bumbling around town at no more than 30. This is evident from the instantaneous energy use display.
Thus if you were planning a trip of 100 miles from a vehicle with a 100 range it would have to be a painfully slow journey, in the summer with no electric accessories running.
Interestingly, ICE engines are often most efficient around the 50 to 60 mph mark. I have witnessed this first hand having been driving an X1 PHEV for 2 years.
Not everyone with a PHEV has the same experience as yours. Owners of MB A250e with official range of 44 miles are reporting up to 40 miles range when driving on the motorway. i.e. the advertised maximum range is likely achieved when bumbling around town at no more than 30. This is evident from the instantaneous energy use display.
Thus if you were planning a trip of 100 miles from a vehicle with a 100 range it would have to be a painfully slow journey, in the summer with no electric accessories running.
Interestingly, ICE engines are often most efficient around the 50 to 60 mph mark. I have witnessed this first hand having been driving an X1 PHEV for 2 years.
A lot of modern PHEVs like the MB models are very good at automatically working out when to coast/when to regen.
raspy said:
Andy86GT said:
The other problem with PHEVs (or EVs for that matter) is that unlike petrol or diesel, the energy used by the electric motor is directly proportional to speed.
i.e. the advertised maximum range is likely achieved when bumbling around town at no more than 30. This is evident from the instantaneous energy use display.
Thus if you were planning a trip of 100 miles from a vehicle with a 100 range it would have to be a painfully slow journey, in the summer with no electric accessories running.
Interestingly, ICE engines are often most efficient around the 50 to 60 mph mark. I have witnessed this first hand having been driving an X1 PHEV for 2 years.
Not everyone with a PHEV has the same experience as yours. Owners of MB A250e with official range of 44 miles are reporting up to 40 miles range when driving on the motorway. i.e. the advertised maximum range is likely achieved when bumbling around town at no more than 30. This is evident from the instantaneous energy use display.
Thus if you were planning a trip of 100 miles from a vehicle with a 100 range it would have to be a painfully slow journey, in the summer with no electric accessories running.
Interestingly, ICE engines are often most efficient around the 50 to 60 mph mark. I have witnessed this first hand having been driving an X1 PHEV for 2 years.
A lot of modern PHEVs like the MB models are very good at automatically working out when to coast/when to regen.
He never sees much more than mid 20s.blank said:
paradigital said:
blank said:
Some of the JLR PHEVs are like this as well. 50mile range and rapid charging.
The problem is PHEVs aren't usually very efficient on electric (think 2-3 miles/kWh) so a 100 mile range will need a 35-50kWh battery. Which is well within the area of decent EVs.
Now that’s just lol. I tend to average 3.4-3.8 mi/kwh in the Passat round town. The problem is PHEVs aren't usually very efficient on electric (think 2-3 miles/kWh) so a 100 mile range will need a 35-50kWh battery. Which is well within the area of decent EVs.
raspy said:
Not everyone with a PHEV has the same experience as yours. Owners of MB A250e with official range of 44 miles are reporting up to 40 miles range when driving on the motorway.
A lot of modern PHEVs like the MB models are very good at automatically working out when to coast/when to regen.
I get that, certainly a lower, more aerodynamic car like the A250e will be better than my tallish X1. However the laws of physics cannot be argued with. The energy required to overcome aerodynamic drag is proportional to velocity squared.... the faster you go the more energy used.A lot of modern PHEVs like the MB models are very good at automatically working out when to coast/when to regen.
Andy86GT said:
I get that, certainly a lower, more aerodynamic car like the A250e will be better than my tallish X1. However the laws of physics cannot be argued with. The energy required to overcome aerodynamic drag is proportional to velocity squared.... the faster you go the more energy used.
Right, but some cars can coast at higher speeds for what seems like ages. Does your X1 do a good job of coasting?The Chinese brand Wey has launched the Wey Coffee 01 large SUV into Germany and it will be rolled out into Sweden, Italy and Spain supposedly by the middle of 2023. Wey is apparently owned by Great Wall.
It’s a PHEV with a 146 km electric-only range, so possibly 90 miles at best. At least these things are going in the right direction. 40kWh battery onboard with a 2-litre petrol. Combined power is 470+ horsepower (PS). A plugin hybrid with a very good range is of real interest to me, rather than pure EV as I do lots of local journeys and have my own solar generation plus batteries and do a bi-monthly euro trip where I don’t want to have to plug in much.
https://www.wey-eu.com/de/en/coffee01.html
https://youtu.be/o3mPf5WjSeI
Interesting. From €55k in Germany. No idea if it’ll come here.
It’s a PHEV with a 146 km electric-only range, so possibly 90 miles at best. At least these things are going in the right direction. 40kWh battery onboard with a 2-litre petrol. Combined power is 470+ horsepower (PS). A plugin hybrid with a very good range is of real interest to me, rather than pure EV as I do lots of local journeys and have my own solar generation plus batteries and do a bi-monthly euro trip where I don’t want to have to plug in much.
https://www.wey-eu.com/de/en/coffee01.html
https://youtu.be/o3mPf5WjSeI
Interesting. From €55k in Germany. No idea if it’ll come here.
Edited by Hellers on Sunday 25th December 16:44
Edited by Hellers on Tuesday 27th December 14:33
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