Series vs Parallel Hybrid vs EV
Discussion
I've been trying to educate myself a little about hybrids as in the next year I may be facing a choice where I end up getting a hybrid.
I have an EV at the moment, a BMW I3, but sadly it seems to fall short on a few areas, mainly; it makes my wife feel a little travel sick pretty quickly (more so than other cars), range... whilst not an issue for 95% of the time I haven't completely mastered preplanning/charging infrastructure and practicality with 4 adults it's OK but it's a bit of a faf especially with luggage (laptop bags coats etc). I ordered it at the start of my new job without fully appreciating what I would be doing and I love it but the reasons listed have meant that sometimes it can be a little inconvenient.
So the options as I see them moving forward are get a bigger EV with slightly more winter range or consider a hybrid.
With the bigger heavier EV I worry about efficiency, bigger battery, more range, heavier vehicle. I get 4.1 m/Kwh at the moment with a smallish battery and light car, on a good summers day driving normally 160+ miles on a winters day cold and wet likely 130 miles. All perfectly acceptable for most my use on a one way journey but charging at the other end has been sometimes inconsistent especially for work when you just want to be travelling. The car was not designed for this, I get that. But to enable a slightly different use case I need a bigger battery, bigger car which equates to less efficiency and all this seems a bit exponential with the current offerings and to be honest I am not sure I can afford say an 80kwh battery in a +£50k EV. Plus I am still not entirely convinced on battery life, charging considerations (up to 80% is healthy, don't leave fully charged etc) and more reliable (certainly simpler and less to go wrong, but when it does it's dead).
This leads me to a Hybrid and I sort of knew there were different types but have realised there is a bit more to it. The car before the I3 was a mild hybrid Merc, again a lovely car but it broke on me and was very expensive to fix (although covered by warranty), it sort of put me off due to the perceived complexity of the system (plus it had a soft-top which looked expensive). Anyway next is a parallel drivetrain which seems to be complex again and requires carrying around a larger set of batteries that can sometimes be plugged in, I'm not really sure how a PHEV works if you don't plug it in... I assume it's wasted effort at that point? I understand that parallel is the most common with most hybrids being this. Finally there is a series drivetrain which was like the Vauxhall Ampera and not many others but most recently Nissans E Power and E 4orce in their for the UK Qashqai and x-Trail.
The series solution sounds like a good deal, its a simpler system, most of the characteristics of EV that I really like (largely instant linear acceleration etc) and in the case of the X-Trail efficient enough and well spec'd for less.
The Kia EV6 Air is £45k and the Nissan X-Trail E 4orce E Power Tekna is about the same.
So do I just flip a coin, am I missing anything obvious is there another choice out there I've not thought of but most importantly is a series drivetrain a poorly conceived blip and I just have to jump on the EV train and be a bit more considered in my journey planning...
No real question really, but I felt better for writing it down and if there are any thoughts on the three drivetrains I'd be interested.
I have an EV at the moment, a BMW I3, but sadly it seems to fall short on a few areas, mainly; it makes my wife feel a little travel sick pretty quickly (more so than other cars), range... whilst not an issue for 95% of the time I haven't completely mastered preplanning/charging infrastructure and practicality with 4 adults it's OK but it's a bit of a faf especially with luggage (laptop bags coats etc). I ordered it at the start of my new job without fully appreciating what I would be doing and I love it but the reasons listed have meant that sometimes it can be a little inconvenient.
So the options as I see them moving forward are get a bigger EV with slightly more winter range or consider a hybrid.
With the bigger heavier EV I worry about efficiency, bigger battery, more range, heavier vehicle. I get 4.1 m/Kwh at the moment with a smallish battery and light car, on a good summers day driving normally 160+ miles on a winters day cold and wet likely 130 miles. All perfectly acceptable for most my use on a one way journey but charging at the other end has been sometimes inconsistent especially for work when you just want to be travelling. The car was not designed for this, I get that. But to enable a slightly different use case I need a bigger battery, bigger car which equates to less efficiency and all this seems a bit exponential with the current offerings and to be honest I am not sure I can afford say an 80kwh battery in a +£50k EV. Plus I am still not entirely convinced on battery life, charging considerations (up to 80% is healthy, don't leave fully charged etc) and more reliable (certainly simpler and less to go wrong, but when it does it's dead).
This leads me to a Hybrid and I sort of knew there were different types but have realised there is a bit more to it. The car before the I3 was a mild hybrid Merc, again a lovely car but it broke on me and was very expensive to fix (although covered by warranty), it sort of put me off due to the perceived complexity of the system (plus it had a soft-top which looked expensive). Anyway next is a parallel drivetrain which seems to be complex again and requires carrying around a larger set of batteries that can sometimes be plugged in, I'm not really sure how a PHEV works if you don't plug it in... I assume it's wasted effort at that point? I understand that parallel is the most common with most hybrids being this. Finally there is a series drivetrain which was like the Vauxhall Ampera and not many others but most recently Nissans E Power and E 4orce in their for the UK Qashqai and x-Trail.
The series solution sounds like a good deal, its a simpler system, most of the characteristics of EV that I really like (largely instant linear acceleration etc) and in the case of the X-Trail efficient enough and well spec'd for less.
The Kia EV6 Air is £45k and the Nissan X-Trail E 4orce E Power Tekna is about the same.
So do I just flip a coin, am I missing anything obvious is there another choice out there I've not thought of but most importantly is a series drivetrain a poorly conceived blip and I just have to jump on the EV train and be a bit more considered in my journey planning...
No real question really, but I felt better for writing it down and if there are any thoughts on the three drivetrains I'd be interested.
I should have chosen my words better.
Right or wrong, to me efficiency means more in EV's and specifically the seasonal variability of it in relation to battery capacity (ideal condition 4m/kwh vs cold and wet 3m/kwh, on a 77kwh battery, thats 77 miles less range). Again as I write that I'm not sure I'm making much sense. Maybe I mean the increased convenience and predictability of an ICE engine, my biggest EV fear being an unplanned stop with a burgeoning infrastructure.
The stability of the efficiency matters in an EV but less so in an ICE/Hybrid largely because of the infrastructure.
Right or wrong, to me efficiency means more in EV's and specifically the seasonal variability of it in relation to battery capacity (ideal condition 4m/kwh vs cold and wet 3m/kwh, on a 77kwh battery, thats 77 miles less range). Again as I write that I'm not sure I'm making much sense. Maybe I mean the increased convenience and predictability of an ICE engine, my biggest EV fear being an unplanned stop with a burgeoning infrastructure.
The stability of the efficiency matters in an EV but less so in an ICE/Hybrid largely because of the infrastructure.
A lot of variables.
If the i3 is good for 95% of your driving, you could keep it and get a petrol Mondeo estate for the 5%.
I think hybrids are much maligned, there are a lot more people happily driving them than forum GroupThink would have you believe.
Likewise an awful lot of people have looked at what's on offer, and the price of it all and decided petrol is still their best option.
If the i3 is good for 95% of your driving, you could keep it and get a petrol Mondeo estate for the 5%.
I think hybrids are much maligned, there are a lot more people happily driving them than forum GroupThink would have you believe.
Likewise an awful lot of people have looked at what's on offer, and the price of it all and decided petrol is still their best option.
i3 good for 95% of your driving and you like it but it's a little small.
Sounds like you just need a slightly larger EV with greater range. Not sure if you've considered it but there are some very good Tesla Y lease deals at the moment. Or buy a 1-2 year old EV that fits the bill.
It'll be tough to go back from EV given you seem to fundamentally like the drive. A hybrid is never going feel as immediate or effortless. Also the hybrid will cost more to run, it can't not if you're doing long enough journeys to be struggling with range in the i3.
Sounds like you just need a slightly larger EV with greater range. Not sure if you've considered it but there are some very good Tesla Y lease deals at the moment. Or buy a 1-2 year old EV that fits the bill.
It'll be tough to go back from EV given you seem to fundamentally like the drive. A hybrid is never going feel as immediate or effortless. Also the hybrid will cost more to run, it can't not if you're doing long enough journeys to be struggling with range in the i3.
TheDeuce said:
i3 good for 95% of your driving and you like it but it's a little small.
Sounds like you just need a slightly larger EV with greater range. Not sure if you've considered it but there are some very good Tesla Y lease deals at the moment. Or buy a 1-2 year old EV that fits the bill.
It'll be tough to go back from EV given you seem to fundamentally like the drive. A hybrid is never going feel as immediate or effortless. Also the hybrid will cost more to run, it can't not if you're doing long enough journeys to be struggling with range in the i3.
I'll apologise in advance, a lot of this post is just getting thoughts out of my head I realise some are irrational and selfish.Sounds like you just need a slightly larger EV with greater range. Not sure if you've considered it but there are some very good Tesla Y lease deals at the moment. Or buy a 1-2 year old EV that fits the bill.
It'll be tough to go back from EV given you seem to fundamentally like the drive. A hybrid is never going feel as immediate or effortless. Also the hybrid will cost more to run, it can't not if you're doing long enough journeys to be struggling with range in the i3.
The going back from the EV was why the Series Hybrid drivetrain sounded so appealing... the benefits of electric drive just with an onboard generator.
A slightly larger EV with a greater range would be ideal, I just have no faith in the WLTP numbers for EV's given seasonal variation and drivetrain/accessory/weight efficiency.
Take the ID3 for instance the life model you can get at the moment with the 58kwh battery and a WLTP range of 265 miles arguably the slightly bigger EV (Ok it does nothing for me from a desire perspective but it should do the job). My I3S has a WLTP of 177 miles and in cold wet weather with my family and all the accessories I want on to be truly comfortable driving it on a full charge with no reliance on charging infrastructure mentally based loosely on experience I have a 100 mile roundtrip range and then need to recharge for a few hours at home to recoup. So the ID3 is approximately 600kg heavier with probably a higher rolling resistance what do I knock off a WLTP full charge range to understand my personal minimum available roundtrip range?
I get this is a hypothetical approach and that my use is entirely subjective and I have some mental hang-ups to overcome, but my point being I have enough inconvenience in my life, I thought I could live with 177 WLTP miles. I have occasionally failed for a number of reasons; WLTP in my mind not being the right representation (I don't know what is), leading me to buy a car that was slightly inappropriate to my mindset, my reluctance to significantly change and optimise my "fuelling" habits (I only charge at home and have so far had more poor experiences with charging away from home plus I keep my battery typically between 20 to 90%, so if it's near me plugging in it isn't entirely ready to go) and my unwillingness to accommodate more inconvenience even if it is only 5% of the time.
So maybe I go the Tesla and actually I have just found this on the internet https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1619/Tesla-Model-Y-... which seems to provide results that I could equate to my desire to understand my minimum. Prices from £57,990 (I get you said good lease deal) to do 195 miles is quite the jump and I still have to deal with my change in habit it's a big battery to run down to empty which you aren't supposed to do so lowering that range further to then wait to charge it at home.
I guess the day to day fuelling and running costs have got closer making the justification to spend more to gain mental comfort a harder choice, whilst I basically think the EV is the answer, have I managed to talk myself out of my next car being one because the change is too much for me to cope with at this time...
I've always loved the apparent freedom a car gives me, whether I use it or not is irrelevant are my personal discovered hang-ups too much to overcome and does the series hybrid fix any of that or should I just commit, get a bigger battery car and soldier on. I don't want to go back to pure ICE (fun yes my NA MX-5 isn't going anywhere, but day to day).
I'll apologise again I can't be the only person who prefers an EV for day to day but is struggling to make it entirely work for them.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff