EV s why all performance?
Discussion
I’m not fully up to date with EV’s, but aware that performance is something that seems to be inevitable with them - aside from cars like the Citroen Ami etc.
If a manufacturer’s true aim is to produce an efficient car, could they not sacrifice some of the performance (which is excessive for most road use), in favour of range?
Having read about the new Kia EV6 gt, with the 0-60 time of 3.6, but a range of 280 miles, could the performance be restricted to say 6 seconds to 60 & would that in turn give a significantly greater range ?
Surely the majority of purchasers aren’t bothered with the performance & want efficiency (the majority of purchasers aren’t on Pistonheads).
Or, are these purchasers enticed by the cars performance?
If a manufacturer’s true aim is to produce an efficient car, could they not sacrifice some of the performance (which is excessive for most road use), in favour of range?
Having read about the new Kia EV6 gt, with the 0-60 time of 3.6, but a range of 280 miles, could the performance be restricted to say 6 seconds to 60 & would that in turn give a significantly greater range ?
Surely the majority of purchasers aren’t bothered with the performance & want efficiency (the majority of purchasers aren’t on Pistonheads).
Or, are these purchasers enticed by the cars performance?
Brinyan said:
If a manufacturer s true aim is to produce an efficient car, could they not sacrifice some of the performance (which is excessive for most road use), in favour of range?
Electric motors don’t work like internal combustion. There is very little (if any) efficiency lost by having a s
tload of potential performance. Electric motors are three to four times more efficient than ICE, so as you add power you dont have to add vast amounts of cooling as outputs rise as you arent, for a given output generating exponentially more heat
They dont have a clutch and gearbox that need to be beefed up to cope, just direct drive via a differential.
Motors are comparatively small, 30 to 50 percent of the size of an ICE engine in terms of just the block and head, never mid all the rads, exhaust and other ancillaries. So, you can have multiples, easy to create 4wd models, just have a motor either end, and then no need to have propshafts, clutch packs and all the other gubbins to make a single engine ICE car 4wd. Can have one motor per wheel if you like, higher output Teslas for example have two at the rear and one in the front.
Its just the energy storage that makes them heavier at the moment, but as time goes by, batteries will get more dense, that means you can have a lower power motor and a virtuous cycle of weight saving, or more range or a combination thereof. Like most tech I beleive there is a crossover where the old tech is better in some ways, and for EVs that is range, cost, weight and noise, they are getting cheaper, they will get lighter and range will go up, noise, well they are trying but its never going to be quite the same is it ?
They dont have a clutch and gearbox that need to be beefed up to cope, just direct drive via a differential.
Motors are comparatively small, 30 to 50 percent of the size of an ICE engine in terms of just the block and head, never mid all the rads, exhaust and other ancillaries. So, you can have multiples, easy to create 4wd models, just have a motor either end, and then no need to have propshafts, clutch packs and all the other gubbins to make a single engine ICE car 4wd. Can have one motor per wheel if you like, higher output Teslas for example have two at the rear and one in the front.
Its just the energy storage that makes them heavier at the moment, but as time goes by, batteries will get more dense, that means you can have a lower power motor and a virtuous cycle of weight saving, or more range or a combination thereof. Like most tech I beleive there is a crossover where the old tech is better in some ways, and for EVs that is range, cost, weight and noise, they are getting cheaper, they will get lighter and range will go up, noise, well they are trying but its never going to be quite the same is it ?
They get a jump off the line from 0-30 as all the torque is available at zero rpm. Most of them after that I'd say have "normal" acceleration other than the sporty ones of course with high HP too.
The irony is that all the power is simply due to a big battery needed for the range. Miracle Batteries have been coming for 10 years or so so maybe next year
TX.
The irony is that all the power is simply due to a big battery needed for the range. Miracle Batteries have been coming for 10 years or so so maybe next year
TX.
Battery capacity = Range
Motor Power = performance.
You can mix and match to a degree without effecting efficiency. However, high power EVs need larger capacity cables, power conversion, cooling, brakes, robust suspension, etc that along with increased weight reduces range compared to the lower powered version.
Motor Power = performance.
You can mix and match to a degree without effecting efficiency. However, high power EVs need larger capacity cables, power conversion, cooling, brakes, robust suspension, etc that along with increased weight reduces range compared to the lower powered version.
Luke. said:
Bigger battery - bigger miles - bigger performance.
On the whole.
Corrected that for you. Battery only affects range, not really performance, in fact by adding battery you are adding weight which will reduce (accelerative) performance. Also, by adding 50% battery capacity will not really add 50% range since, again, you are adding more weight which therefore needs for power to move it, thus also reducing the range.On the whole.
Mouse Rat said:
Battery capacity = Range
Motor Power = performance.
You can mix and match to a degree without effecting efficiency. However, high power EVs need larger capacity cables, power conversion, cooling, brakes, robust suspension, etc that along with increased weight reduces range compared to the lower powered version.
They don't really need decent brakes as they're not usually being driven on a track (even though our 2.5 tonne lump of a tesla has a track mode, lol) and on road the vast majority of stopping is done using regen. As far as I can tell the only difference between our brakes and the normal model is that they're painted red. Motor Power = performance.
You can mix and match to a degree without effecting efficiency. However, high power EVs need larger capacity cables, power conversion, cooling, brakes, robust suspension, etc that along with increased weight reduces range compared to the lower powered version.
I think it's better to think of the majority of "performance" EVs as being "quick accelerating" EVs, not sports cars or anything.
MustangGT said:
Luke. said:
Bigger battery - bigger miles - bigger performance.
On the whole.
Corrected that for you. Battery only affects range, not really performance, in fact by adding battery you are adding weight which will reduce (accelerative) performance. Also, by adding 50% battery capacity will not really add 50% range since, again, you are adding more weight which therefore needs for power to move it, thus also reducing the range.On the whole.
raspy said:
lol
EVs don't work like ICE cars.
I got a 330bhp EV but if I had gone for the same model but with 600+ bhp, then the more powerful faster model would be just as efficient as my lesser powered slower model.
That essentially.EVs don't work like ICE cars.
I got a 330bhp EV but if I had gone for the same model but with 600+ bhp, then the more powerful faster model would be just as efficient as my lesser powered slower model.
The penalty for performance is minimal. The cost to the manufacturer isn't massive to fit a more powerful motor over a less powerful one.
Lester H said:
I m pretty ignorant on this topic, but do the faster ones go through tyres at a hefty rate (after the novelty has worn off)?
Our Honda E rears were close to done at 10,000 miles. Fronts will be toast by 15k I suspect. This may be not be normal We had a Model S P100D and that needed a set at 20k from memory. Novelty was waning…
ChocolateFrog said:
raspy said:
lol
EVs don't work like ICE cars.
I got a 330bhp EV but if I had gone for the same model but with 600+ bhp, then the more powerful faster model would be just as efficient as my lesser powered slower model.
That essentially.EVs don't work like ICE cars.
I got a 330bhp EV but if I had gone for the same model but with 600+ bhp, then the more powerful faster model would be just as efficient as my lesser powered slower model.
The penalty for performance is minimal. The cost to the manufacturer isn't massive to fit a more powerful motor over a less powerful one.
BricktopST205 said:
That has always been the case with ICE cars too. A 1 litre 4 cylinder is no different in cost to make compared to 2 litre which most likely has double the power yet they charge significantly more for the pleasure for no apparent reason.
It's a bit off-topic but I do wonder what they could do with the price of cars if they made each model for 15 years instead of 5 and gave you one (banging) engine choice and spec. Reduce design costs, focus on engineering the production costs right down and leverage massive economies of scale. 
andy43 said:
Lester H said:
I m pretty ignorant on this topic, but do the faster ones go through tyres at a hefty rate (after the novelty has worn off)?
Our Honda E rears were close to done at 10,000 miles. Fronts will be toast by 15k I suspect. This may be not be normal We had a Model S P100D and that needed a set at 20k from memory. Novelty was waning
Internal combustion engine efficiency increases with load - an ICE is most efficient at wide open throttle and a stoichiometric fuel/air mix. Hence a smaller/lower powered ICE is more efficient most of the time because it's typically operating at closer to peak efficiency more of the time.
Electric motors are different, they are vastly more efficient under all conditions but importantly in this case they roughly are as efficient at low loads as high loads so installing a more powerful electric motor has no real effect on economy for a particular power output. Ie a 500bhp electric motor putting out 100bhp will have much the same efficiency as a 150bhp motor putting out 100bhp whereas a 500bhp internal combustion engine putting out 100bhp might be half as efficient as 150bhp ICE generating 100bhp.
So there's no real downside to giving an EV more power, at least up to the point where the battery can't deliver any more or you need to add more motors, which can add mechanical drag.
Electric motors are different, they are vastly more efficient under all conditions but importantly in this case they roughly are as efficient at low loads as high loads so installing a more powerful electric motor has no real effect on economy for a particular power output. Ie a 500bhp electric motor putting out 100bhp will have much the same efficiency as a 150bhp motor putting out 100bhp whereas a 500bhp internal combustion engine putting out 100bhp might be half as efficient as 150bhp ICE generating 100bhp.
So there's no real downside to giving an EV more power, at least up to the point where the battery can't deliver any more or you need to add more motors, which can add mechanical drag.
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