Does anyone run an EV with no home charging?
Discussion
Just a question, not a debate.
Looking for a new practical car and I am quite taken with the new Renault 5. Due to looks, I've never driven one.
My first ever car was an already ancient Renault 6 back in the late 70s
I live in a flat, car would be parked in a street nearby. There are 3 or 4 lamppost charging points but no guarantee of getting to park next to one, plus they are 80p per kWh.
There's a Lidl about 1.5 miles away which I walk to that has a lot of slightly cheaper chargers as well as even slower thus a bargain chargers.
The problem there is that a third party looks after the carpark and you get a maximum 2 hours before getting fined.
How long does it take to fill the battery? and does anyone else run an EV with no access to juice at home?
Looking for a new practical car and I am quite taken with the new Renault 5. Due to looks, I've never driven one.
My first ever car was an already ancient Renault 6 back in the late 70s
I live in a flat, car would be parked in a street nearby. There are 3 or 4 lamppost charging points but no guarantee of getting to park next to one, plus they are 80p per kWh.
There's a Lidl about 1.5 miles away which I walk to that has a lot of slightly cheaper chargers as well as even slower thus a bargain chargers.
The problem there is that a third party looks after the carpark and you get a maximum 2 hours before getting fined.
How long does it take to fill the battery? and does anyone else run an EV with no access to juice at home?
croyde said:
I live in a flat, car would be parked in a street nearby. There are 3 or 4 lamppost charging points but no guarantee of getting to park next to one, plus they are 80p per kWh.
There's a Lidl about 1.5 miles away which I walk to that has a lot of slightly cheaper chargers as well as even slower thus a bargain chargers.
The problem there is that a third party looks after the carpark and you get a maximum 2 hours before getting fined.
How long does it take to fill the battery? and does anyone else run an EV with no access to juice at home?
The main issue will be fuel cost. It would certainly be more expensive per mile in electricity if you only ever paid for charging away from home. Two hours isn't very long on a slow charger either, but driving to a fast one shouldn't be too much of a problem I guess.There's a Lidl about 1.5 miles away which I walk to that has a lot of slightly cheaper chargers as well as even slower thus a bargain chargers.
The problem there is that a third party looks after the carpark and you get a maximum 2 hours before getting fined.
How long does it take to fill the battery? and does anyone else run an EV with no access to juice at home?
The 80p you quote is ten times what most people pay to charge at home.
Also be mindful (and it may not matter to you, or be relevant here) that the depreciation on an new EV is likely to be higher than that of a conventional car.
Edited by Turtle Shed on Tuesday 19th August 08:09
As much as I’m pro EV (we are now EV only family) that does sound a difficult situation.
I rarely use public charging (maybe once a quarter), and one of the main draws of the EV is the convenience that it’s always ready to go in the morning and on the Octopus tariff it’s insanely cheap (the equivalent of around 2p per mile in “fuel”)
I think with the inconvenience of charging, and at 80 ppkwh then now is likely to not be the right time, unless you’re doing very limited miles.
I rarely use public charging (maybe once a quarter), and one of the main draws of the EV is the convenience that it’s always ready to go in the morning and on the Octopus tariff it’s insanely cheap (the equivalent of around 2p per mile in “fuel”)
I think with the inconvenience of charging, and at 80 ppkwh then now is likely to not be the right time, unless you’re doing very limited miles.
If the cheaper, slower Lidl chargers are 7kW, then approx 8.5 hrs 0-100%
Other charging estimates here:
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/2135/Renault-5-E-Te...
Other charging estimates here:
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/2135/Renault-5-E-Te...
croyde said:
Just a question, not a debate.
Looking for a new practical car and I am quite taken with the new Renault 5. Due to looks, I've never driven one.
My first ever car was an already ancient Renault 6 back in the late 70s
I live in a flat, car would be parked in a street nearby. There are 3 or 4 lamppost charging points but no guarantee of getting to park next to one, plus they are 80p per kWh.
There's a Lidl about 1.5 miles away which I walk to that has a lot of slightly cheaper chargers as well as even slower thus a bargain chargers.
The problem there is that a third party looks after the carpark and you get a maximum 2 hours before getting fined.
How long does it take to fill the battery? and does anyone else run an EV with no access to juice at home?
We do, approaching 3 years and have covered a bit over 70,000km (45,000 miles). However, this is on the continent with frequent long trips, covering the Puglia, Bosnia, Finland and the Netherlands "square" so far. No long commutes and fairly minimal local driving (day trips). So our use case seems quite different from yours.Looking for a new practical car and I am quite taken with the new Renault 5. Due to looks, I've never driven one.
My first ever car was an already ancient Renault 6 back in the late 70s
I live in a flat, car would be parked in a street nearby. There are 3 or 4 lamppost charging points but no guarantee of getting to park next to one, plus they are 80p per kWh.
There's a Lidl about 1.5 miles away which I walk to that has a lot of slightly cheaper chargers as well as even slower thus a bargain chargers.
The problem there is that a third party looks after the carpark and you get a maximum 2 hours before getting fined.
How long does it take to fill the battery? and does anyone else run an EV with no access to juice at home?
To tackle the economics: in town, a Renault 5 might get by with as little as 10kWh/100km (or 16kWh/100 miles) on average. So at 0.80£/kWh fuel costs would be under 13£/100 miles - same economic ballpark as real-life numbers of small hybrids. But Renault Charge Pass seems to have a subscription option at 0.43£/kWh -> around £7/100 miles.
Motorway driving might see you use up to 25 - 32kWh/100 miles, at 0.43£/kW you would get a bit worse "fuel" costs than a small hybrid if you drove without much concern for economics/range.
IMHO, the real economic case the expectation that the useful lifetime of an EV is longer and maintenance costs are lower. There starts to be reasonably strong evidence of this, and Renault is one of the "good brands" if you plan on running the car beyond the warranty period. Obviously, this applies primarily if you buy outright (ideally used) and keep the cars for a long time. The depreciation seems brutal in the UK (compared, e.g. to Switzerland), so short-term ownership doesn't seem like a smart option.
In terms of convenience and driving experience, EVs are great. You get the responsiveness of a "pre-emission control" V8 from the 80s with a manual gearbox without a tricky clutch, smell of unburnt fuel or noise to deal with. There's a lot of talk about the weight, but most of it is close to the ground so handling is more competent than it looks on paper.
A 1.5-hour stop at a supermarket with a slow charger would get you 100 miles of extra range in the city (10 hours of driving in the city/town I live in...), so you usually don't need to go somewhere to charge on purpose. A fast charger would get you from 10%-80% in a bit over half an hour (would be a problem for our use. In most cases, it would probably be OK).
The https://ev-database.org/ is a good source for technical details and comparisons.
Doesnt seem an ideal case for EV usage, as charging is expensive. I guess it depends on useage as well. If the op doent cover many miles, a fast charger once a week whilst doing the supermarket run may be convenient.
We only have EVs at present and they work fine for commuting and bimbling about. Currently on biggest trip we have done ( to bristol area from north east). The charging infrastructure is not great at present if you cant access tesla chargers. (I know you can use some, but so far not where i have needed them).
Figuring out where to get a bit of charge become a strategic part of your trip ( I dont mind this, but err indoors cant be arsed with it, so i suspect the EV she uses will not be replaced by another).
I think the mindset of refuelling is fundamentally different for EV - its best to grab a bit of charge whenever you can, rather than brim to brim refuelling of petrol use. We charged from 35% to 95% (about 40kwh at 80p/unit) whist in waitrose yesterday. They had one fast charger which we were lucky enough to use, and about 6 slower chargers which were a bit less expensive but would have added much less in the time
We only have EVs at present and they work fine for commuting and bimbling about. Currently on biggest trip we have done ( to bristol area from north east). The charging infrastructure is not great at present if you cant access tesla chargers. (I know you can use some, but so far not where i have needed them).
Figuring out where to get a bit of charge become a strategic part of your trip ( I dont mind this, but err indoors cant be arsed with it, so i suspect the EV she uses will not be replaced by another).
I think the mindset of refuelling is fundamentally different for EV - its best to grab a bit of charge whenever you can, rather than brim to brim refuelling of petrol use. We charged from 35% to 95% (about 40kwh at 80p/unit) whist in waitrose yesterday. They had one fast charger which we were lucky enough to use, and about 6 slower chargers which were a bit less expensive but would have added much less in the time
Edited by sawman on Tuesday 19th August 09:08
Edited by sawman on Tuesday 19th August 09:33
Forget it. The current EV revolution makes sense only for the ‘ low hanging fruit’ of the market, those that can charge at home or work for sensible cost and minimum hassle. And for those people (self included) it can be brilliant and cheap.
Unfortunately the amortised infrastructure cost, higher VAT, and perhaps just a small element of profiteering(!) means that reliance on public charging wipes out the cost advantage of running an EV. There’s also the hassle factor if you can’t guarantee access to a convenient public charger near to home or work.
Unfortunately the amortised infrastructure cost, higher VAT, and perhaps just a small element of profiteering(!) means that reliance on public charging wipes out the cost advantage of running an EV. There’s also the hassle factor if you can’t guarantee access to a convenient public charger near to home or work.
As much as I love my EV, I don't think I could have one without home charging for all the reasons other's have stated.
Why not rent one for a couple of weeks and see how you get on? You could run it at a maximum of 30% charge, so that you have to regularly charge over the period and see how much of an impact that has on your day to day life.
Why not rent one for a couple of weeks and see how you get on? You could run it at a maximum of 30% charge, so that you have to regularly charge over the period and see how much of an impact that has on your day to day life.
kambites said:
595Heaven said:
Couple over the road run a Taycan and e-Tron without home charging. No idea where they do charge (both doctors, one a GP, the other a surgeon), but I can’t help thinking it is a very expensive way of owning them…
They might have free/cheap charging at work. 
Having said that, I took a peek at Porsche charging service prices, and the monthly fees and prices of public charging seemed shocking. I may be missing a perk somewhere, though.
Free charging at work and/or driving frequently on the continent ("more smiles than a ~23mpg ICE for a bit over 10£/100 miles" - I imagine) - or just liking the idea?
The level of hassle entirely depend on your usage. If you're only doing minimal mileage (<5k a year) it could be manageable just charging once fortnight of less?
Lidl rapid chargers usually 50kW so based on the charge curve of the R5 and it's battery size you're looking at 60-90 minutes for a full charge at a cost of 62p/kWh so £30-35 a time with losses.
Lidl rapid chargers usually 50kW so based on the charge curve of the R5 and it's battery size you're looking at 60-90 minutes for a full charge at a cost of 62p/kWh so £30-35 a time with losses.
kambites said:
595Heaven said:
Couple over the road run a Taycan and e-Tron without home charging. No idea where they do charge (both doctors, one a GP, the other a surgeon), but I can’t help thinking it is a very expensive way of owning them…
They might have free/cheap charging at work. croyde said:
Just a question, not a debate.
Looking for a new practical car and I am quite taken with the new Renault 5. Due to looks, I've never driven one.
My first ever car was an already ancient Renault 6 back in the late 70s
I live in a flat, car would be parked in a street nearby. There are 3 or 4 lamppost charging points but no guarantee of getting to park next to one, plus they are 80p per kWh.
There's a Lidl about 1.5 miles away which I walk to that has a lot of slightly cheaper chargers as well as even slower thus a bargain chargers.
The problem there is that a third party looks after the carpark and you get a maximum 2 hours before getting fined.
How long does it take to fill the battery? and does anyone else run an EV with no access to juice at home?
We have the A290 so same battery. For our use we charge every other Wednesday. The cost is at normal rates as we don't have the cheap rate (not worth it for our usage), so it is at 25p KWH.Looking for a new practical car and I am quite taken with the new Renault 5. Due to looks, I've never driven one.
My first ever car was an already ancient Renault 6 back in the late 70s
I live in a flat, car would be parked in a street nearby. There are 3 or 4 lamppost charging points but no guarantee of getting to park next to one, plus they are 80p per kWh.
There's a Lidl about 1.5 miles away which I walk to that has a lot of slightly cheaper chargers as well as even slower thus a bargain chargers.
The problem there is that a third party looks after the carpark and you get a maximum 2 hours before getting fined.
How long does it take to fill the battery? and does anyone else run an EV with no access to juice at home?
You are London though right? This may work for you. https://www.justpark.com/ev/justcharge
The car takes about 4 hours to go 20-80% at 7kw AC btw.
Have a look at Zapmap (either online or in the app), there are others, to see all the chargers near to you. My local Lidl charges 25p/kWh which is actually about the same as a standard daytime tariff at home (apart from cheap overnight tariffs of course).
In some parts of the country, Aldi have free chargers (BP Pulse at Knutsford and Holmes Chapel the last time I was up that way). There is sometimes plunge pricing (Ionity were 20% discount a couple of days ago in the evening). If you have Octopus supply you at home, you can get 5% discount on the Electroverse network.
Tesco Podpoints are 54p/kWh at the moment (went up from 44p recently
). Classed as 'fast' at 7kWh. Rapid and ultra rapid do it in minutes, but the faster, the more expensive, usually.
In some parts of the country, Aldi have free chargers (BP Pulse at Knutsford and Holmes Chapel the last time I was up that way). There is sometimes plunge pricing (Ionity were 20% discount a couple of days ago in the evening). If you have Octopus supply you at home, you can get 5% discount on the Electroverse network.
Tesco Podpoints are 54p/kWh at the moment (went up from 44p recently
). Classed as 'fast' at 7kWh. Rapid and ultra rapid do it in minutes, but the faster, the more expensive, usually.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff