Interesting example of very high mileage EV for sale
Discussion
Just randomly came across this advert, I have no connection to the car or seller:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202508225...
What I found interesting was the picture of the dashboard, showing 81 miles range on just under one third of the battery capacity, giving this car a real world range of a good 250 miles. With 250,000 miles on the clock. Given that the model when new had a range of about 280 miles, I'd say so much for tales of disastrous battery degradation, and also to have done this many miles over 4 years it must have been rapid charged many times over. Again, so much for scare stories.
I make and invite no comment on the asking price of the car or whether it makes a sensible buy, but just thought it an interesting real world example of a heavily used EV. I have no intention of viewing or purchasing it.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202508225...
What I found interesting was the picture of the dashboard, showing 81 miles range on just under one third of the battery capacity, giving this car a real world range of a good 250 miles. With 250,000 miles on the clock. Given that the model when new had a range of about 280 miles, I'd say so much for tales of disastrous battery degradation, and also to have done this many miles over 4 years it must have been rapid charged many times over. Again, so much for scare stories.
I make and invite no comment on the asking price of the car or whether it makes a sensible buy, but just thought it an interesting real world example of a heavily used EV. I have no intention of viewing or purchasing it.
I think there's quite a lot of evidence already published that EV batteries are performing far better than expected and it's only the really early ones which didn't have good temperature management that suffer reasonably severe degradation. Suspect this will happily double that mileage if the rest of the car is maintained (which may well justify the asking price).
Chris
Chris
What a rabbit hole.
There's a cat S 630,000 miles Leaf
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202508185...
Asking for £2000...
There's a cat S 630,000 miles Leaf
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202508185...
Asking for £2000...
Pistonheadsdicoverer said:
What a rabbit hole.
There's a cat S 630,000 miles Leaf
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202508185...
Asking for £2000...
Christ alive. I've GOT to know what that car's range is now!There's a cat S 630,000 miles Leaf
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202508185...
Asking for £2000...
Pistonheadsdicoverer said:
What a rabbit hole.
There's a cat S 630,000 miles Leaf
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202508185...
Asking for £2000...
MOT history suggests a more reasonable 62k miles There's a cat S 630,000 miles Leaf
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202508185...
Asking for £2000...
Chris
I was browsing some Finnish classifieds (old home country), inspired by a comment in another thread saying cars are designed to be disposed at 100,000 miles.
I found a near-180,000-mile 2019 Kia Niro EV with 91% remaining battery capacity (I presume an independent test, from the language). Asking for 15k€ (I'm guessing ~50k€ new). There was also an EQE 300 for doble the price with higher mileage with dealership warranty (extensible).
Asking prices are of course not the whole story, but the cratering values of second-hand EVs might not be an immutable law of nature in all markets. If you have cheap electricity prices and policies that don't penalise EV ownership, the inherent benefits of EVs start to show.
The Swiss second-hand market doesn't have that many high-mileage EVs, except Teslas, where the "free Supercharger" generation tends to skew the valuations. Low-mileage EVs tend to hold their value pretty well, though (at least compared to the UK). This even with regulations that, in many cases, seem to penalise EV ownership.
I found a near-180,000-mile 2019 Kia Niro EV with 91% remaining battery capacity (I presume an independent test, from the language). Asking for 15k€ (I'm guessing ~50k€ new). There was also an EQE 300 for doble the price with higher mileage with dealership warranty (extensible).
Asking prices are of course not the whole story, but the cratering values of second-hand EVs might not be an immutable law of nature in all markets. If you have cheap electricity prices and policies that don't penalise EV ownership, the inherent benefits of EVs start to show.
The Swiss second-hand market doesn't have that many high-mileage EVs, except Teslas, where the "free Supercharger" generation tends to skew the valuations. Low-mileage EVs tend to hold their value pretty well, though (at least compared to the UK). This even with regulations that, in many cases, seem to penalise EV ownership.
Personally, my Model 3 LR is up to 113K miles but the interior is absolutely immaculate largely due to the fake leather not getting shiny. A few stone chips at the front but you'd still never know
215,000 Tesla Model 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBxSWmzN4NI
315,000 Tesla Model 3
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0EWiacXoLxY
430,000 Tesla Model S
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HaqtgSkvhgE
215,000 Tesla Model 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBxSWmzN4NI
315,000 Tesla Model 3
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0EWiacXoLxY
430,000 Tesla Model S
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HaqtgSkvhgE
Edited by p4cks on Wednesday 10th September 18:19
Pistonheadsdicoverer said:
I guess you could swap the conversation on its head.
Would you rather drive a 100K Leaf or a 100K petrol corsa?
One of my kids will start learning to drive soon and I'm thinking of getting an old leaf (2K on AT atm). So the dilemna is real.
A manual Corsa (Yaris, swift or Aygo would be my choice) will give them a more useful life skill and allow them to venture much further afield.Would you rather drive a 100K Leaf or a 100K petrol corsa?
One of my kids will start learning to drive soon and I'm thinking of getting an old leaf (2K on AT atm). So the dilemna is real.
Save the EV for when they can afford a decent one and they know how to drive.
Snow and Rocks said:
A manual Corsa (Yaris, swift or Aygo would be my choice) will give them a more useful life skill and allow them to venture much further afield.
Save the EV for when they can afford a decent one and they know how to drive.
Yeah it’s interesting. We have a Leaf and a petrol 107 and we’re giving the 107 to middle son when he hits 17 next year for this very reason. Obviously he’s incredibly ungrateful, etc, etc, but I think long run will equip him to drive anything rather than fast tracking him Save the EV for when they can afford a decent one and they know how to drive.
Chris
Pistonheadsdicoverer said:
I guess you could swap the conversation on its head.
Would you rather drive a 100K Leaf or a 100K petrol corsa?
One of my kids will start learning to drive soon and I'm thinking of getting an old leaf (2K on AT atm). So the dilemna is real.
Leaf is an anomaly, literally the worst EV for battery degradation. I'd happily run something like the Kia above with that mileage over a Leaf with 50k. Would you rather drive a 100K Leaf or a 100K petrol corsa?
One of my kids will start learning to drive soon and I'm thinking of getting an old leaf (2K on AT atm). So the dilemna is real.
That said I'd still have a Leaf over literally any Corsa.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Wednesday 10th September 19:56
At some point people are going to realise that EVs are a better long term shed prospect than most comparable ICE cars. Most of the battery degradation typically occurs over the first few years and then stabilises for the long haul. So for example you might lose 10% over the first 3-4 years and then hardly any further loss over the next decade. That’s a very simplistic summary, but kind of how it works. Early Nissan Leafs had their problems which gave EV longevity a bad reputation. That and the usual anti-EV fear mongering.
Firstly I wouldn't trust the OP's extrapolation of the true range from the indicators on the dash.
Secondly, people need to get their heads around EV batteries being killed by two things. Well three maybe.
One killer is number of cycles, particularly deep cycles.
Second killer is time. Calendar time.
Third is 'abuse'. That's a vague catch-all for fast charging, storage at 100% or low % charge, temperature, and other things.
It's a four year old car, with the equivalent of somewhere near 1000 full cycles.
Based on cell makers' data, that isn't incompatible with capacity near 90%, if it's had say 4000 40% to 60% cycles.
Leaves (the early ones) have two big problems.
1) They are old. Ten years of even gentle use has an impact on a lithium cell.
2) They have small batteries, so medium journeys cycle the cells deep and 100k miles is a lot of cycles
On top of that, they were designed ages ago when much learning was still being done, and when the range drops on a low range car, it becomes a 'do not leave the county' third car or something.
It really is nothing like a 250k mile petrol car.
Petrol cars can generally do 150k miles over 15 to 20 years and then die of general wear.
EVs are good for the miles, but they won't be lasting 20 years.
Secondly, people need to get their heads around EV batteries being killed by two things. Well three maybe.
One killer is number of cycles, particularly deep cycles.
Second killer is time. Calendar time.
Third is 'abuse'. That's a vague catch-all for fast charging, storage at 100% or low % charge, temperature, and other things.
It's a four year old car, with the equivalent of somewhere near 1000 full cycles.
Based on cell makers' data, that isn't incompatible with capacity near 90%, if it's had say 4000 40% to 60% cycles.
Leaves (the early ones) have two big problems.
1) They are old. Ten years of even gentle use has an impact on a lithium cell.
2) They have small batteries, so medium journeys cycle the cells deep and 100k miles is a lot of cycles
On top of that, they were designed ages ago when much learning was still being done, and when the range drops on a low range car, it becomes a 'do not leave the county' third car or something.
It really is nothing like a 250k mile petrol car.
Petrol cars can generally do 150k miles over 15 to 20 years and then die of general wear.
EVs are good for the miles, but they won't be lasting 20 years.
Amazing 300k mile Kia Niro video - https://youtu.be/ibMC8p07eTc?si=dbDwQMb-v0CXDCQ5
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