Old Leaf battery bars... what's believable?

[defblade]

I'm looking at changing jobs to a very boring 10 miles each way commute almost entirely on 20-30mph limit roads.
I'm thinking about getting an older Leaf to do it in as there is no joy to be found in the trip and I might as well do it in the easiest to drive, cheapest to run, white goods car available. It would also make a decent family/dog/tip local run car. 50 miles real range would be plenty. We have a choice of ICE cars if more range is required!

I know and understand a fair bit now about battery health bars and their implications... also about being able to reset the BCM monitoring to show 12 bars for a while, at least, on a car with a degraded battery using a posh code reader

So I'm slightly worried by some of the cheaper Leafs that appear to have 12 or 11 bars still showing at 40-50,000 miles or so... is this realistic for one of these when priced in the £3-4k range?

I will be getting LeafSpy if I do go this route, but I'd rather be able to rule out possible dodgy cars by their adverts without wasting my time traveling to see them.

[CABC]

I bought one with similar bars/mileage. I get real mileage of 60-80 depending on temperature.
I think most of these were granny charged and are therefore healthy. 50k over 10 years is 5k per year. isn’t much, 2-3 charges per week.

[ashenfie]

Yes spotting an unbalanced cell or cells would be important. Leaf have a decent track record of having repairable batteries. I'd personally ignore the health bars and learn all you can about using leafspy

Edited by ashenfie on Tuesday 10th February 07:40

[confused_buyer]

We currently have a 2014 one knocking around with 93k miles on it which has 10 bars (78% actual state of health) and another 64 plate one with about 45k on 11 bars so yes it is quite possible for a 10-12 year old Leaf to have 10-12 bars.

The 24kWh ones actually seem to do better than the later 30kWh ones when it comes to battery life.

[gmaz]

I think Toaster Pilot ( https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?me... ) buys and sells lots of leafs, so his input would be useful.

[Russet Grange]

Our Leaf is a '64 Reg owned from new. Around 88k miles now, still on 11 bars. Only ever gets granny charged these days and probably only ever been fast charged 50 times.

Range? Well as with all EVs, this is a huge variable. Warm/calm day, flat roads, just pottering alond at 50mph would see me happy to go 70 miles.

Freezing cold, heater on, headwind, 60mph uphill - You'd be lucky to cover 20 miles (though in reality 20 miles only uphill isn't a realistic scenario).

An absolute steal of a car if the range can work for you.

[ScoobyChris]

Interesting our 2016 one is now on 9 bars I think but summer range is around 90 miles (using a/c) and winter is around 65 (using a/c and heat) which doesn’t seem to tally!

When we were looking to buy I think the best ones we found had 10 bars.

[confused_buyer]

ScoobyChris said:

Interesting our 2016 one is now on 9 bars I think but summer range is around 90 miles (using a/c) and winter is around 65 (using a/c and heat) which doesn t seem to tally!

When we were looking to buy I think the best ones we found had 10 bars.

Are you sure it's not a 30kWh? 9 bars equates to under 75% SOH so only about 15kWh mas usable on 24 or about 19 on a 30 which would match your mileage.

[ScoobyChris]

Yes ours is a 30 Tekna.

[sixor8]

I've been looking at these myself recently, and I wouldn't trust 12 bars, as mentioned, it can be forced using a connector to the OBC socket.

Many traders seem shy to show the display, for obvious reasons, or perhaps ignorance because no other EV has a permanent SOH display. Nor a battery temp gauge because the Leaf has no temp control of the battery.

I'd be happy with 10 bars myself, I don't do many miles these days, but it isn't always the low mileage ones. I've seen sub 50k mile cars with 8 bars or less, and high mileage cars with 10. Depends on the abuse and no of fast charges I expect.

[Toaster Pilot]

I buy and sell a lot of these - the 24kWh pack is much more robust than the 30 and there are plenty of them out there with 11 bars and a healthy pack at 40-80k miles, with the higher mile ones obviously being a little bit closer to 10 bars. Faults are very rare (degradation not being a fault of course) even at much higher mileage, something you definitely can t say for the 30 or 40kWh packs.

60-80 miles is a reasonable range estimate for an 11 bar car that isn t being smashed up and down the motorway

I have seen one genuine 12 bar car with 70k on the clock but it s very rare. People tampering with the display is even rarer though.

Anything with 8 bars at lower mileage will be a 30kWh that is either in trouble or hasn’t had the BMS update that supposedly fixed them (but appears to just be a bit of a sticking plaster for Nissan to avoid warranty claims tbh)

[sixor8]

I'd watched a few of your videos, the C1 Ev'ie was interesting. I'd never heard of it.

[confused_buyer]

The main things to look out for on a LEAF are suspension related. They obviously do a lot of urban work which takes its toll and also the top mounts on the front suspension are very prone to wearing. The remedy is usually to replace the mounts and shock.

Also check they have the nav SD card as it won't retain any settings without it.

[Toaster Pilot]

sixor8 said:

I'd watched a few of your videos, the C1 Ev'ie was interesting. I'd never heard of it.

Kinda wish I hadn’t tbh it’s a bit rough.

[Toaster Pilot]

confused_buyer said:

The main things to look out for on a LEAF are suspension related. They obviously do a lot of urban work which takes its toll and also the top mounts on the front suspension are very prone to wearing. The remedy is usually to replace the mounts and shock.

Also check they have the nav SD card as it won't retain any settings without it.

I don’t see worn top mounts that often - bushes/ball joints and drop links sure (pretty much anything over about 70k needs new control arms as a rule because one or more bush is ruined as a minimum)

[Russet Grange]

Ours (as mentioned above) has just had its only repair since new, and that was suspension related. A pair of wishbones required, total bill was £400 but that included an MOT. Felt a bit steep but other than a wheel bearing that's all it has had in 11 1/2 years.

The other thing that fails on them is the touchscreen, almost always just the right side. £10 from Ali Express for a replacement and 30 minutes to fit.

Regarding SatNav, I'm not sure we've ever even used ours. With a range of no more than 70 miles we don't go far, and would just use Google maps anyway.

Also, the things are just damned comfortable. My son has a Model 3, and whilst it is an impressive bit of kit, the Leaf beats it on comfort. I think that's probably 80% suspension/tyres related and 20% down to the seats. (I'm not a fan of leather seats).

[defblade]

Toaster Pilot said:

I buy and sell a lot of these - the 24kWh pack is much more robust than the 30 and there are plenty of them out there with 11 bars and a healthy pack at 40-80k miles, with the higher mile ones obviously being a little bit closer to 10 bars. Faults are very rare (degradation not being a fault of course) even at much higher mileage, something you definitely can t say for the 30 or 40kWh packs.

60-80 miles is a reasonable range estimate for an 11 bar car that isn t being smashed up and down the motorway

I have seen one genuine 12 bar car with 70k on the clock but it s very rare. People tampering with the display is even rarer though.

Anything with 8 bars at lower mileage will be a 30kWh that is either in trouble or hasn t had the BMS update that supposedly fixed them (but appears to just be a bit of a sticking plaster for Nissan to avoid warranty claims tbh)

Thanks TP and everyone else.

Looks like a 24kWh with the best mileage: bars: price ratio is going to be what I'm looking for then; I'll not worry too much about reset bars.

I have been distracted by budget creep to mk2s and then competitors with perhaps a bit more style/interest about them (eg Kia Souls (more interesting on the outside); Mazda MX-30s (much newer, more interesting on the inside); sadly, my (large) adult daughter does not fit in the back of an i3), but we will still have 2 (or 3, if I struggle to sell my SL ) ICE cars in the household, so no range worries.

An older Leaf means more in my bank account for a fun car now and again, and there appears to be an increasingly strong community around them with the knowledge to fix stuff, along with somewhat reasonable parts availability. These things keep bringing me back to them over all alternatives.

There are loads of 9/10/11 bar cars available for £3k-ish... although living in west Wales, getting some of them home might take a long time and a lot of stops!
There's a 30k mile car with 12 bars quite near me for £5k, which is a bit toppy but might be worth paying that extra grand for (budget is an easy £8k, or be stretched to more, hence the creep... I could dip into savings for an i-pace, just look at that cabin... NO! BEHAVE!)

[CABC]

I nearly fell for budget creep too. I’ve no regrets sticking to a base 24kw model. Fantastic for what it is. Those better cars you mention will depreciate like rocks as fresher longer range stuff becomes available second hand. The leaf has been a solid introduction to EVs and I’ll upgrade once the market is more settled and the appropriate deal emerges. Suspect I’ll skip several generations in doing so.