Can an EV work for anyone?
Discussion
I have been pondering something along the lines of a 10k Fiesta ST/Clio RS/Polo GTi as a fun 2nd car for my 300 mile per week commute but several of my friends (some who I would consider to be motoring enthusiasts) have suggested that I buy an EV. I'm not anti-EV by any means and in some aspects am quite curious but have a degree of scepticism as to how appropriate it is for my personal circumstances but I could just as easily buy a mk2 Nissan Leaf long-range or a BMW i3 for my budget (2 EVs that I actually quite like).
People seem to fall into 4 main camps when it comes to EVs:
1) Those who have no interest and will never buy them;
2) Those that think they are the best thing ever and would never go back to an ICE car;
3) Those that have owned an EV but gone back to an ICE car because an EV didn't work for them;
4) Those that can appreciate that an EV is the best car for some applications but sub-optimal for others.
Sometimes I wonder if some from category 2) aren't completely sold on EVs but don't want to admit that their choice of an EV has some compromises!
I am currently in rented accommodation and do have off-street parking but not a designated charger (and why would I fit one in a rented property?) but could use a 3 pin plug I suppose. There is limited EV charging available at my workplace ie I could charge there potentially but it's not a guarantee ie if every one had an EV, they wouldn't all be able to charge their vehicles and I'm currently on a temporary secondment to a company, so can't guarantee that the next place that I work at will have EV charging facilities. We are currently searching for our own property to buy in the area but some of the properties that we have looked at have off-street parking and others don't, so I can't for sure say that I will be able to charge at home in the future.
Although I have yet to use the public charging network, I have not heard great things ie not enough chargers, long wait times, broken chargers, multiple phone apps required, expensive rates, so I don't really fancy having to deal with that on the way home from work on a regular basis when I just want to get home in the evening (although I appreciate that it wouldn't be every day).
I'm not going to complain about the fringe cases where you need to do 500 miles non-stop and back in a day because I accept that is only 1% of journeys at best (for me anyway) but if you don't have reliable access to EV charging at home/work is it really worth the hassle and will an EV actually save you money?
I guess you could argue for a PHEV as a good compromise but for me that kind of is what it is...a compromise. Added complexity and weight and normally boot/passenger space is compromised over the ICE equivalent. Some of the non-PHEV hybrids like the Toyotas/Hondas/Qashqai ePower do intrigue me a little but having lived with a CRV hybrid for a couple of weeks, I was impressed with the technology but it was no more efficient than my conventional ICE car in the kind of driving that I do (pretty efficient for a vehicle of that size though with AWD in fairness).
So is an EV really a good solution for anyone or really with the proviso that you have access to EV charging at home/work?
People seem to fall into 4 main camps when it comes to EVs:
1) Those who have no interest and will never buy them;
2) Those that think they are the best thing ever and would never go back to an ICE car;
3) Those that have owned an EV but gone back to an ICE car because an EV didn't work for them;
4) Those that can appreciate that an EV is the best car for some applications but sub-optimal for others.
Sometimes I wonder if some from category 2) aren't completely sold on EVs but don't want to admit that their choice of an EV has some compromises!
I am currently in rented accommodation and do have off-street parking but not a designated charger (and why would I fit one in a rented property?) but could use a 3 pin plug I suppose. There is limited EV charging available at my workplace ie I could charge there potentially but it's not a guarantee ie if every one had an EV, they wouldn't all be able to charge their vehicles and I'm currently on a temporary secondment to a company, so can't guarantee that the next place that I work at will have EV charging facilities. We are currently searching for our own property to buy in the area but some of the properties that we have looked at have off-street parking and others don't, so I can't for sure say that I will be able to charge at home in the future.
Although I have yet to use the public charging network, I have not heard great things ie not enough chargers, long wait times, broken chargers, multiple phone apps required, expensive rates, so I don't really fancy having to deal with that on the way home from work on a regular basis when I just want to get home in the evening (although I appreciate that it wouldn't be every day).
I'm not going to complain about the fringe cases where you need to do 500 miles non-stop and back in a day because I accept that is only 1% of journeys at best (for me anyway) but if you don't have reliable access to EV charging at home/work is it really worth the hassle and will an EV actually save you money?
I guess you could argue for a PHEV as a good compromise but for me that kind of is what it is...a compromise. Added complexity and weight and normally boot/passenger space is compromised over the ICE equivalent. Some of the non-PHEV hybrids like the Toyotas/Hondas/Qashqai ePower do intrigue me a little but having lived with a CRV hybrid for a couple of weeks, I was impressed with the technology but it was no more efficient than my conventional ICE car in the kind of driving that I do (pretty efficient for a vehicle of that size though with AWD in fairness).
So is an EV really a good solution for anyone or really with the proviso that you have access to EV charging at home/work?
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 2nd March 11:52
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 2nd March 12:58
If you can’t have access to home and/or work charger you may want to think long and hard.
I’ve been electric for five years, first i3 which was fantastic introduction and currently i4 - also good. Were I not going part time and retiring I’d be keeping the i4 or another BEV, but I’m about to return to the dark side. Maybe another i3 as well.
i3 was and still is one of the best EVs available, so long as you can live with 150 mile range and slow charging on the go. I kept mine for four years and used public charging twice. Not because I needed to, just to check it out. On the rare holidays to the seaside I made sure the hotel had onsite chargers, which worked out well for me - charging overnight as I did at home.
i4 is far nicer car, but not a great EV compared to what’s available now. Works for me though.
My experience is limited to those two, and 20 miles a day commute means EV is/was no brainer for me. Doesn’t suit everyone though.
I’ve been electric for five years, first i3 which was fantastic introduction and currently i4 - also good. Were I not going part time and retiring I’d be keeping the i4 or another BEV, but I’m about to return to the dark side. Maybe another i3 as well.
i3 was and still is one of the best EVs available, so long as you can live with 150 mile range and slow charging on the go. I kept mine for four years and used public charging twice. Not because I needed to, just to check it out. On the rare holidays to the seaside I made sure the hotel had onsite chargers, which worked out well for me - charging overnight as I did at home.
i4 is far nicer car, but not a great EV compared to what’s available now. Works for me though.
My experience is limited to those two, and 20 miles a day commute means EV is/was no brainer for me. Doesn’t suit everyone though.
I'm also in 4), I have an EV and I bought it for the same reasons you have, 80 mile per day commute, 4 days a week so 320 miles BUT I have a drive and had a charger fitted, in this case absolutely and EV works,, in your case not so much. As it stands at the momne tI don't think EV Iis for you.
I could also nearly fall into 3) as although I really do like my EV and it works really well for me I am currently looking at buying another ICE car but to run along side the EV (and the motorbike) not to repalce the EV.
I could also nearly fall into 3) as although I really do like my EV and it works really well for me I am currently looking at buying another ICE car but to run along side the EV (and the motorbike) not to repalce the EV.
white_goodman said:
2) Those that think they are the best thing ever and would never go back to an ICE car;
I'm in category 2, with the large caveat that I'm talking about my daily driver. I never want to commute in an ICE car again.That doesn't apply to fun / weekend cars, which will always be ICE for me.
... so maybe I'm in category 4.
I am No4, leaning more and more towards No2.
For me, an EV works perfectly for my family-life and I love them, HOWEVER, they aren't for all. Without home charging, I wouldn't be entertaining it, and would suggest anyone think carefully before committing without it.
With, I struggle to see any real drawbacks right now other than the cost of public charging can be pricey but for how often I use it/ cost saving 99.9% of the time charging at home I really don't care.
I still get the old "urghhh, you have an electric car" vibes from some, which I find quite funny
For me, an EV works perfectly for my family-life and I love them, HOWEVER, they aren't for all. Without home charging, I wouldn't be entertaining it, and would suggest anyone think carefully before committing without it.
With, I struggle to see any real drawbacks right now other than the cost of public charging can be pricey but for how often I use it/ cost saving 99.9% of the time charging at home I really don't care.
I still get the old "urghhh, you have an electric car" vibes from some, which I find quite funny
Ste-EVo said:
I am No4, leaning more and more towards No2.
For me, an EV works perfectly for my family-life and I love them, HOWEVER, they aren't for all. Without home charging, I wouldn't be entertaining it, and would suggest anyone think carefully before committing without it.
With, I struggle to see any real drawbacks right now other than the cost of public charging can be pricey but for how often I use it/ cost saving 99.9% of the time charging at home I really don't care.
I still get the old "urghhh, you have an electric car" vibes from some, which I find quite funny
Forgot to mention it in the OP but how do EV drivers feel about the proposed cost per mile charge for EVs that the government are proposing? I understand that the VED has also been increased to the base rate (195 pounds?) on EVs for a while when it used to be zero? For me, an EV works perfectly for my family-life and I love them, HOWEVER, they aren't for all. Without home charging, I wouldn't be entertaining it, and would suggest anyone think carefully before committing without it.
With, I struggle to see any real drawbacks right now other than the cost of public charging can be pricey but for how often I use it/ cost saving 99.9% of the time charging at home I really don't care.
I still get the old "urghhh, you have an electric car" vibes from some, which I find quite funny
Also a 4.
No home charging is tricky - doable depending on your lifestyle and local options but may not save you much money over petrol. If you can conveniently charge when you do regular trips for other reasons - like a supermarket shop or going to the gym - then it can work. 300 miles a week is likely to mean more than one charge though.
Absolute no-brainer if you can charge from home.
No home charging is tricky - doable depending on your lifestyle and local options but may not save you much money over petrol. If you can conveniently charge when you do regular trips for other reasons - like a supermarket shop or going to the gym - then it can work. 300 miles a week is likely to mean more than one charge though.
Absolute no-brainer if you can charge from home.
Starsky80 said:
Forgot to mention it in the OP but how do EV drivers feel about the proposed cost per mile charge for EVs that the government are proposing? I understand that the VED has also been increased to the base rate (195 pounds?) on EVs for a while when it used to be zero?
Its disappointing but it was inevitable that it would happen, just perhaps not so soon.
The savings running an EV against petrol/diesel still MASSIVLY outweigh those additional taxes and certainly would deter me from buying an EV.
EDIT - would NOT** deter me, sorry. Excuse my spelling
Edited by Ste-EVo on Monday 2nd March 14:51
Definitely 4.
I would say a home charger is a must unless you have a deal that saves money in other ways i.e. salary sacrifice, Motability, all inclusive company car lease.
I did 50,000 miles in 2.5 years public charging with SS and its still been slightly cheaper than ICE, especially for a 300bhp AWD SUV. Ive now moved home and got my own charger installed with a £350 grant for rented property, payback is less than 3 months on a good tariff.
EV are much quicker than most ICE, no point in comparing costs to a 1.9PD Polo or a geriatric Insignia for example.
I would say a home charger is a must unless you have a deal that saves money in other ways i.e. salary sacrifice, Motability, all inclusive company car lease.
I did 50,000 miles in 2.5 years public charging with SS and its still been slightly cheaper than ICE, especially for a 300bhp AWD SUV. Ive now moved home and got my own charger installed with a £350 grant for rented property, payback is less than 3 months on a good tariff.
EV are much quicker than most ICE, no point in comparing costs to a 1.9PD Polo or a geriatric Insignia for example.
Ste-EVo said:
Starsky80 said:
Forgot to mention it in the OP but how do EV drivers feel about the proposed cost per mile charge for EVs that the government are proposing? I understand that the VED has also been increased to the base rate (195 pounds?) on EVs for a while when it used to be zero?
Its disappointing but it was inevitable that it would happen, just perhaps not so soon.
The savings running an EV against petrol/diesel still MASSIVLY outweigh those additional taxes and certainly would deter me from buying an EV.
Edited by fooman on Monday 2nd March 13:54
fooman said:
Ste-EVo said:
Starsky80 said:
Forgot to mention it in the OP but how do EV drivers feel about the proposed cost per mile charge for EVs that the government are proposing? I understand that the VED has also been increased to the base rate (195 pounds?) on EVs for a while when it used to be zero?
Its disappointing but it was inevitable that it would happen, just perhaps not so soon.
The savings running an EV against petrol/diesel still MASSIVLY outweigh those additional taxes and certainly would deter me from buying an EV.
Edited by fooman on Monday 2nd March 13:54
Yea, its still so much cheaper and the price per mile won't make a huge difference to my limited annual mileage.
Not sure what the current plan is for the 'Price Per Mile' but, again can't say its gonna make enough difference to me to worry about.
EDIT: Didnt realise the PPM thing isnt starting until April 2028...
Edited by Ste-EVo on Monday 2nd March 14:21
2 and 3 are sub groups of 4. People who either own or have owned an EV are usually pretty clear that they don't necessarily work for everyone yet, group 3 especially so!
You can view a PHEV as being the worst of both, or the best of both. I get about 50% more power than the standard petrol version, the instant acceleration of an EV, the range of an ICE, way better MPG than an ICE (but lower MPkWh than an a BEV), and drive train that's simpler than a standard ICE, with no starter motor, alternator, clutch or conventional gearbox.
Personally I wouldn't have an EV without ready access to charging either at home or at work at a cheap rate. A mate of mine has free charging at work which is a massive perk, sadly the chargers at my work are more expensive than the on street ones at home!
white_goodman said:
I guess you could argue for a PHEV as a good compromise but for me that kind of is what it is...a compromise. Added complexity and weight and normally boot/passenger space is compromised over the ICE equivalent. Some of the non-PHEV hybrids like the Toyotas/Hondas/Qashqai ePower do intrigue me a little but having lived with a CRV hybrid for a couple of weeks, I was impressed with the technology but it was no more efficient than my conventional ICE car in the kind of driving that I do (pretty efficient for a vehicle of that size though with AWD in fairness).
If you don't have the ability to charge a car that needs charging every 200+ miles at home, a car that needs charging every 40 miles is probably not for you. However again as with your category 4 they suit some people and not others. Mine does about 65km on a charge, which is plenty for our day to day usage, however we tend to be doing at least one long trip a month, often staying with friends/family or in hotels that don't have chargers, so being able to run on petrol at around 50ish mpg is really useful, and quite impressive for a 2 tonne SUV. I can then save the battery for the urban bit either end. Also we're using on street chargers at much higher rate than many people in the UK are paying to home charge, so the cost saying of running on electricity isn't that significant, meaning the extra cost/hassle of fast chargers a couple of times per month isn't really worth it.You can view a PHEV as being the worst of both, or the best of both. I get about 50% more power than the standard petrol version, the instant acceleration of an EV, the range of an ICE, way better MPG than an ICE (but lower MPkWh than an a BEV), and drive train that's simpler than a standard ICE, with no starter motor, alternator, clutch or conventional gearbox.
Personally I wouldn't have an EV without ready access to charging either at home or at work at a cheap rate. A mate of mine has free charging at work which is a massive perk, sadly the chargers at my work are more expensive than the on street ones at home!
white_goodman said:
I am currently in rented accommodation and do have off-street parking but not a designated charger (and why would I fit one in a rented property?)
Private landlord or a big organisation? If the former it might be worth asking the landlord what they think. I rent out my house in the UK and if the tenant wanted to run an EV I'd probably be happy to pay to get one fitted because EV usage is only growing and future tenants are likely to want a charger too.Edited by RizzoTheRat on Monday 2nd March 14:25
fooman said:
Ste-EVo said:
Starsky80 said:
Forgot to mention it in the OP but how do EV drivers feel about the proposed cost per mile charge for EVs that the government are proposing? I understand that the VED has also been increased to the base rate (195 pounds?) on EVs for a while when it used to be zero?
Its disappointing but it was inevitable that it would happen, just perhaps not so soon.
The savings running an EV against petrol/diesel still MASSIVLY outweigh those additional taxes and certainly would deter me from buying an EV.
Edited by fooman on Monday 2nd March 13:54
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fuel-du...
For an EV to be competitive with petrol for convenience, you need to be reliably able to charge the car in a place you would normally park it anyway, i.e. not have to go out of your way.
"Your drive" is the most obvious such place, however "your office" is another, "the street outside your house" could be, even "the supermarket car park" if you consistently spend an hour a week there and could charge sufficiently while doing so.
OTOH having to drive somewhere, leave the car charging, walk 5-10 minutes back home, then the same again to fetch the car is not convenient.
So EVs could work for almost everyone if local governments pulled their finger out and provided convenient charging at the locations people park their cars normally. However at present this is only patchy, thus the people for whom an EV could work is the subset of the motoring population with charging facilities available.
white_goodman said:
I am currently in rented accommodation and do have off-street parking but not a designated charger (and why would I fit one in a rented property?) but could use a 3 pin plug I suppose.
You could absolutely buy an i3 and use a 3-pin charger, it might need 10 hours a night to cover 60 miles a day but that's only 9pm-7am say.Your “four main camps” are a bit flaky - sounds like they are all equal whereas some are very small groups consisting of grumpy old men or Daily Telegraph readers (or both).
Having said that, one of the genuine reasons not to get an EV is the lack of convenient charging options for the driver. Charging at home is probably the most convenient but you also appear to have the option of charging at work. Do you also regularly go to other places which have public charging you could use: supermarkets, gym, etc? Bear in mind it sounds like you would probably need to charge less than once a week.
If the answer is no to that, probably don’t get an EV yet.
Having said that, one of the genuine reasons not to get an EV is the lack of convenient charging options for the driver. Charging at home is probably the most convenient but you also appear to have the option of charging at work. Do you also regularly go to other places which have public charging you could use: supermarkets, gym, etc? Bear in mind it sounds like you would probably need to charge less than once a week.
If the answer is no to that, probably don’t get an EV yet.
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