How long to 100% on fast charger?
Discussion
So I’ve just bought a Kia EV6 long range.
First electric car. So far love it. For local use it’s perfect.
At some point I will be doing some long trips.
Now I’m not naive enough to think it will get anywhere near its 360 mile range.
It’s supposed to fast charge from 20-80% in about 18 minutes.
But in a worse case, motorways/ winter, I am thinking I may be only getting 3 miles per kw.
That means if I charge when it’s down to 20% ( and I won’t be happy going below that!) and I only charge to 80% then I’m going to be charging every 150 miles.
So two questions, does it really damage the battery going to 95-100% on a fast charger? And if it slows down the charge rate after 80% to protect the battery then how long extra does it take?
First electric car. So far love it. For local use it’s perfect.
At some point I will be doing some long trips.
Now I’m not naive enough to think it will get anywhere near its 360 mile range.
It’s supposed to fast charge from 20-80% in about 18 minutes.
But in a worse case, motorways/ winter, I am thinking I may be only getting 3 miles per kw.
That means if I charge when it’s down to 20% ( and I won’t be happy going below that!) and I only charge to 80% then I’m going to be charging every 150 miles.
So two questions, does it really damage the battery going to 95-100% on a fast charger? And if it slows down the charge rate after 80% to protect the battery then how long extra does it take?
According to the Autocar test, the average charging rate to 80% is about 140 kW. At 90% charge it is down to 40 kW, and it will get even slower as you approach 100%. It is generally accepted that it is quicker overall to charge to 80% and drive on to the next charger. As well as being quicker for you, it avoids blocking a charger for other people.
The last 10% typically takes ages. With the Tesla it calculates the charging times in a long journey so that 2 charges 30-70% will be quicker than 1 long charge 5-100%.
I've only done it once when I arrived near my destination at 7am, just wanted to make sure I could get home without stopping to charge in the afternoon when services would be busy.
Also if you're going rural with no chargers about you want to make sure you can get back to a charger, you might want to set your destination State of Charge to take this into account on the satnav. If it works out fastest charging route but leaves you with 10% in the middle of nowhere, could be a problem.
I've only done it once when I arrived near my destination at 7am, just wanted to make sure I could get home without stopping to charge in the afternoon when services would be busy.
Also if you're going rural with no chargers about you want to make sure you can get back to a charger, you might want to set your destination State of Charge to take this into account on the satnav. If it works out fastest charging route but leaves you with 10% in the middle of nowhere, could be a problem.
Once you get confidence in the system you'll happily go below 20%, I certainly do without a worry.
And as already pointed out it's far quicker and easier to just top up regularly than sit there waiting for it to go from 80% to 100%. You won't damage your battery as the charge speed will automatically slow once it hits 80%, nothing you can do about it.
Also, does your car not tell you the charging time? When I use a fast charger, once connected and the car knows the charging speed it tells me what time it'll reach the % I've requested - change the % from 80% to 100% and you'll see a huge increase in time. The other surprise you won't be expecting is that some chargers don't charge at their advertised rate (usually when busy), that's the only bit that pisses me off about EV's - get to a 300kW charger and it charges at 50kW.
And as already pointed out it's far quicker and easier to just top up regularly than sit there waiting for it to go from 80% to 100%. You won't damage your battery as the charge speed will automatically slow once it hits 80%, nothing you can do about it.
Also, does your car not tell you the charging time? When I use a fast charger, once connected and the car knows the charging speed it tells me what time it'll reach the % I've requested - change the % from 80% to 100% and you'll see a huge increase in time. The other surprise you won't be expecting is that some chargers don't charge at their advertised rate (usually when busy), that's the only bit that pisses me off about EV's - get to a 300kW charger and it charges at 50kW.
Kia recommend 80-90% as your daily charge limit, both of ours are set to 90%
You can go below 20% for long trips with no issues, its not recommended long term to keep the battery at 20% or under for chemistry reasons
Charging slows down over 80% as the BMS has to manage the charge over all the cells as you want them to all be at the same level and overcharging is a definite no no lol
so generally on long trips with rapid chargers charging 20-80% results in the shortest travel time but if your still charging at a good rate there’s no need to stop charging. it does vary from car to car.
You can go below 20% for long trips with no issues, its not recommended long term to keep the battery at 20% or under for chemistry reasons
Charging slows down over 80% as the BMS has to manage the charge over all the cells as you want them to all be at the same level and overcharging is a definite no no lol
so generally on long trips with rapid chargers charging 20-80% results in the shortest travel time but if your still charging at a good rate there’s no need to stop charging. it does vary from car to car.
Unless your route is through the middle of nowhere with limited charger coverage setting a limit at 20% really isn't needed IME.
Going from 80-90% the charge rate drops from 150kW to 50kW according to fastned, so adding that additional 7.5kW to the battery would take an additional 5 or 6 minutes. Over 90% it drops through the floor and really not worth the time on a fast charger.
Going from 80-90% the charge rate drops from 150kW to 50kW according to fastned, so adding that additional 7.5kW to the battery would take an additional 5 or 6 minutes. Over 90% it drops through the floor and really not worth the time on a fast charger.
Forget charging to 100% when on a trip; it will take forever.
Aim for 10% to 80%.
Our car has an WLTP of 330ish on our last trip with the roof box; it gave us a range of 209 miles. I know this as the first stop was 200 miles away, and we had 9 miles of range left when we got to the first charger
I was determined to use the Tesla ones.....
Using the 10% to 80% rule gives us a second hop of 150 miles-ish.
Two 30-minute stops, and you can get nearly anywhere in this country.
Aim for 10% to 80%.
Our car has an WLTP of 330ish on our last trip with the roof box; it gave us a range of 209 miles. I know this as the first stop was 200 miles away, and we had 9 miles of range left when we got to the first charger
I was determined to use the Tesla ones.....Using the 10% to 80% rule gives us a second hop of 150 miles-ish.
Two 30-minute stops, and you can get nearly anywhere in this country.
This could be useful: https://evkx.net/models/kia/ev6/ev6_long_range_2wd... - click "show full table" at the end to show the table listing how long from empty each SoC % takes.
0-100% is listed as a bit over one hour and 15 minutes. One hour and 12 minutes from 10% if you deduct the two and a half minutes needed to get from zero to 10%.
We end up, on occasion, going above 90%. Typically waiting for the waiter to take our order before moving the car. But can't recall ever getting to 100% on a DC charger, even if it our old Ioniq 5 would be a fair bit faster than on the new EV6 (based on https://evkx.net/models/hyundai/ioniq_5/ioniq_5_lo... ).
(looks like the 95-100% is slower on the facelift models - more energy spent on battery cooling than in Gen 1 cars?)
0-100% is listed as a bit over one hour and 15 minutes. One hour and 12 minutes from 10% if you deduct the two and a half minutes needed to get from zero to 10%.
We end up, on occasion, going above 90%. Typically waiting for the waiter to take our order before moving the car. But can't recall ever getting to 100% on a DC charger, even if it our old Ioniq 5 would be a fair bit faster than on the new EV6 (based on https://evkx.net/models/hyundai/ioniq_5/ioniq_5_lo... ).
(looks like the 95-100% is slower on the facelift models - more energy spent on battery cooling than in Gen 1 cars?)
In my old Tesla Model S 'fast' charging to 100% took forever, something like 80-100% took 45mins to an hour. My Taycan now though is much much faster. I don't have timings but for example on the way to Le Mans last year when we stopped at motorway services with friends in ICE cars by the time they had filled up, messed around getting food, going to the loo etc my car got to 100% twice, and it happened fast, they weren't long stops, like 30 mins. I haven't timed it but it gets there quickly.
My point is that while top charging is slower in all EV's the speed at which they top charge varies massively.
My point is that while top charging is slower in all EV's the speed at which they top charge varies massively.
One other thing to note is if the battery is cold it will charge very slowly. The other morning I started charging 3 minutes after setting off and it was doing 45-55kw. Got about 20 miles range added and headed to the next charger. Just over an hour later it was charging at 250kw as the battery was warmer. Same 350kw Ionity chargers. Moral is fast charge at the end of your journey, not next morning on your way home.
If you set the charger destination on the sat nav the car will automatically start pre-heating the battery so that when you plug in it will charge faster.
You will see a little red heating coil symbol in the display
Note you must use the cars sat nav NOT CarPlay for this to work, but it does work very well.
You will see a little red heating coil symbol in the display
Note you must use the cars sat nav NOT CarPlay for this to work, but it does work very well.
My E5008 charges up to 160kw, i've seen it in the 140s before.
It is VERY quick, so much so I'm usually rushing back to the car as i have more than enough range to get home.
I've only done one very long journey (800+ miles over a few days). I planned ahead and found a nice garden centre for lunch, arrived on 20% and left on 95%. Then just needed quick top ups which tied in with comfort and coffee breaks.
On the way home south, I planned to charge in an Oxford services but had just enough miles to get to Winchester which i'd used before. 11 miles range left was the closest i have gotten to zero but you need to learn to trust the miles. Monitor the miles remaining on the nav vs the distance to the charger. If the gap gets closer, slow down a little.
Electroverse app is good for seeing charger speeds (and for paying) - I also cross ref with google to see what is around if i'm going to be there a while.
Mine has just had pre conditioning added via a software update, can activate it manually if using carplay or automatically if using the car sat nav. Can't say i noticed any difference in charging speeds.
It is VERY quick, so much so I'm usually rushing back to the car as i have more than enough range to get home.
I've only done one very long journey (800+ miles over a few days). I planned ahead and found a nice garden centre for lunch, arrived on 20% and left on 95%. Then just needed quick top ups which tied in with comfort and coffee breaks.
On the way home south, I planned to charge in an Oxford services but had just enough miles to get to Winchester which i'd used before. 11 miles range left was the closest i have gotten to zero but you need to learn to trust the miles. Monitor the miles remaining on the nav vs the distance to the charger. If the gap gets closer, slow down a little.
Electroverse app is good for seeing charger speeds (and for paying) - I also cross ref with google to see what is around if i'm going to be there a while.
Mine has just had pre conditioning added via a software update, can activate it manually if using carplay or automatically if using the car sat nav. Can't say i noticed any difference in charging speeds.
Edited by joropug on Wednesday 6th May 13:04
EV6s charge seriously fast for a 'normal' car. I've seen 245kw peak on an Ioniq 5 - same platform. Perfect conditions you can do 10-80% in like 16/17 minutes. Just about enough time for a toilet stop and a coffee.
In the winter you need to make sure the battery is warm to get high speed. The minimum temp in the battery pack needs to be 25c to get full speed. I think all EV6s have a battery warmer? You need to set the inbuilt nav to the charger for it to work though, which is annoying if using Waze etc.
/edit - on your consumption - you will get way worse than 3mi/kWh in the winter if you're doing high speed and the weather is bad. I have done the run to SW France in an Ioniq 5 several times so know the pain. Long stretches of 130km/h autoroute in January will absolutely murder your range.
In the winter you need to make sure the battery is warm to get high speed. The minimum temp in the battery pack needs to be 25c to get full speed. I think all EV6s have a battery warmer? You need to set the inbuilt nav to the charger for it to work though, which is annoying if using Waze etc.
/edit - on your consumption - you will get way worse than 3mi/kWh in the winter if you're doing high speed and the weather is bad. I have done the run to SW France in an Ioniq 5 several times so know the pain. Long stretches of 130km/h autoroute in January will absolutely murder your range.
Edited by LayZ on Wednesday 6th May 13:08
My Polestar does the calculation for when to top up and how much, so that you remain in the fastest overall journey time. Seems counterintuitive, but to do two shorter stops can be faster overall than one long charging stop. It also means that the very short stops are a walk to loo and back to car and we are good to go....
cb31 said:
One other thing to note is if the battery is cold it will charge very slowly. The other morning I started charging 3 minutes after setting off and it was doing 45-55kw. Got about 20 miles range added and headed to the next charger. Just over an hour later it was charging at 250kw as the battery was warmer. Same 350kw Ionity chargers. Moral is fast charge at the end of your journey, not next morning on your way home.
What car? I use the onboard navigation on the Polestar and it pre-conditions the battery for charging. It works, as slowest I have seen was about 75kw and fastest was full 140kwh in the dozen or so times I have charged it.Edited by POIDH on Wednesday 6th May 14:52
joropug said:
I've only done one very long journey (800+ miles over a few days). I planned ahead and found a nice garden centre for lunch, arrived on 20% and left on 95%. Then just needed quick top ups which tied in with comfort and coffee breaks.
Just to echo this as I do the same for road trips, basically start with 100% in the morning, then stop for a proper lunch and that gives time to get up to 90% or so, then a brief loo break / ten minute charge mid afternoon if needed.The combo of starting with a full overnight charge and a nearly full lunchtime one means the slow 'top charging' doesn't really become a significant limitation.
POIDH said:
My Polestar does the calculation for when to top up and how much, so that you remain in the fastest overall journey time. Seems counterintuitive, but to do two shorter stops can be faster overall than one long charging stop. It also means that the very short stops are a walk to loo and back to car and we are good to go....
The multi stop thing does only account for the charging time itself, and non of the faffing around finding an available charger, plugging in, paying etc.POIDH said:
My Polestar does the calculation for when to top up and how much, so that you remain in the fastest overall journey time. Seems counterintuitive, but to do two shorter stops can be faster overall than one long charging stop. It also means that the very short stops are a walk to loo and back to car and we are good to go....
The multi stop thing does only account for the charging time itself, and non of the faffing around finding an available charger, plugging in, paying etc.Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 6th May 15:27
POIDH said:
What car? I use the onboard navigation on the Polestar and it pre-conditions the battery for charging. It works, as slowest I have seen was about 75kw and fastest was full 140kwh in the dozen or so times I have charged it.
Taycan. It also has pre-conditioning if you put a charger into the destination, doesn't work if the charger is only a few minutes away from the journey start though.Edited by POIDH on Wednesday 6th May 14:52
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff