Group C practice

[lowdrag]

Don't shoot the messenger; these are straight out of the box and completely at random. A few were racing, the others touring. I timed a few and they were slower than the Jaguar C & D types last year.




















I probably have better but haven't the time to sort through until after the weekend.

[Gixer]

Gutted I'm missing these but then I didn't think I was going to make it at all this year. At least ill be there for the race.

[Bobo W]

Great pictures, what was the result of the race ?

[XJ Flyer]

Bobo W said:

Great pictures, what was the result of the race ?

Mercedes won which isn't surprising considering that there was no real V12 Jaguar opposition.Which just leaves the the question of if only they could extend it to at least a 3 hour race and the chicanes on the Mulsanne could be taken out for it.Preferably also make it part of the classic event being that it's now more just about memories than having any relevance to the 21 st century sanitised castrated version of the 24 hours.

[zebedee]

XJ Flyer said:

sanitised castrated version of the 24 hours.

in what way? chicanes out? imagine the speeds if they hadn't?

[lowdrag]

XJ Flyer said:

Mercedes won which isn't surprising considering that there was no real V12 Jaguar opposition.Which just leaves the the question of if only they could extend it to at least a 3 hour race and the chicanes on the Mulsanne could be taken out for it.Preferably also make it part of the classic event being that it's now more just about memories than having any relevance to the 21 st century sanitised castrated version of the 24 hours.

Sometimes, just sometimes when you post XJ, I wonder if the brain is truly connected. The chicanes were brought in because the manufacturers demanded them; not because the Mercedes took off in 1999. The problem became, just like the "langheck" Porsche 917, that the entrants would need to design a special body just for Le Mans, and that would have been incredibly, nay extortionally, expensive. Can you name another circuit that has a main straight over two miles long? I guess not; the 24 hour race is exceptional, destructive (see today's race), intuitional, exceptional, incredible, and as such the decision was taken to reduce the height of the "hump" before the Mulsanne bend by two metres (which is why at that point there are no trees to the left because they were all cut down in 2000 to make a temporary road during the works) and to put in two chicanes. That notwithstanding, today, on the reduced hump, the main protagonists, just half a mile uphill after the last chicane, are touching 200 mph, a little faster than they were before the chicanes were there in 1955 but much slower than 1998 of course.

You only have to look, for example, at the lap times of a Jaguar D-type nowadays, chicanes included, to understand that technology has move on apace and that the cars of today have far more power than those of 60 years ago. It is of course a non sequitur that the technology of the Group C cars has also moved on apace. They are far more powerful, have better tyres, but - and I make the point advisedly having seen the quals and the race - the owners are there for the extra value of their car and can't drive the bloody things - apart from a couple of professional or gifted amateurs such as Shaun Lynn in the Mercedes and a few others.

I rebut your statement entirely. Cars are faster but in this class oft driven by non-gifted amateurs. The layout of the course has not a jot to do with it.

To return to the C and D-types, would you care to comment on why, for example, the said cars were actually quicker last year that a number of Group C cars today, even with a 500 bhp deficiency?

Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 15th June 07:14

[XJ Flyer]

zebedee said:

XJ Flyer said:

sanitised castrated version of the 24 hours.

in what way? chicanes out? imagine the speeds if they hadn't?

I don't need to imagine it I was there back in the day.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcj9DVAM6eY

The fact is Group C cars are designed for taking maximum advantage of the circuit as it was not as is today.In which case at least lifting the Mulsanne chicanes for classic Le Mans types series racing like Group C would be more relevant to how it was which is what classic racing should be all about.

[zebedee]

XJ Flyer said:

I don't need to imagine it I was there back in the day.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcj9DVAM6eY

The fact is Group C cars are designed for taking maximum advantage of the circuit as it was not as is today.In which case at least lifting the Mulsanne chicanes for classic Le Mans types series racing like Group C would be more relevant to how it was which is what classic racing should be all about.

you said the 21st century version was castrated, so I naturally thought you meant the contemporary cars, so you haven't been there when they have had no chicanes. I agree with you that the group c's could run on the old layout, but disagree that the modern version is sanitised or castrated.

[XJ Flyer]

zebedee said:

XJ Flyer said:

I don't need to imagine it I was there back in the day.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcj9DVAM6eY

The fact is Group C cars are designed for taking maximum advantage of the circuit as it was not as is today.In which case at least lifting the Mulsanne chicanes for classic Le Mans types series racing like Group C would be more relevant to how it was which is what classic racing should be all about.

you said the 21st century version was castrated, so I naturally thought you meant the contemporary cars, so you haven't been there when they have had no chicanes. I agree with you that the group c's could run on the old layout, but disagree that the modern version is sanitised or castrated.

Trust me assuming a good turn out of well maintained Group C's at least running on the full non chicane Mulsanne,over a realistic race distance,would still be a less sanitised,less neutered prospect,than the modern day race for 'efficiency'.Just as it was back in the day.Unfortunately the rest of the circuit,such as the section after the Dunlop bridge,couldn't be straightened out to match.

However it would probably be more relevant to do that in the course of the classic event.While also solving the issue of the choice between all the expense of making two seperate journeys for anyone who's only interested in the classic Le Mans series.Which obviously includes ( should include )the Group C category which at present misses the cut off for eligibility under the present Classic event rules.

[zebedee]

XJ Flyer said:

...would still be a less sanitised,less neutered prospect,than the modern day race for 'efficiency'...

Are you actually watching this race?!

[wasserboxer]

Wasn't Group C all about efficiency anyway?