Scanned passes - don't even think about it this year.
Discussion
I'm just back from a meeting with various people who deal with the circuit security and the security is getting very much tighter, more so than imagined. I know I've already posted on this subject before but this is the up to date news. Here is a copy, for example, of a marshal's pass for last year's Classic, and you'll note the bar code in the corner. This was a false code to get the system up and running and every pass had the same code.
This year every pass will bear a proper bar code and every security guard at every point of the circuit - be it paddocks, parking or whatever - will have a bar code scanner. The ACO are determined to stamp out the false passes which, with the advent of good scanners and printers, have become prevalent. They are going further the year after with bracelets for each level although I don't think this will apply to ordinary entry tickets but the levels above. They are installing airport type gateway scanners and the wrist bracelet will carry an electronic chip which will or will not allow entry to certain areas according to the level of the pass.
Incidentally, in my last post on security some of you picked up on the fact that tickets did not give the right to paddock access and you were right - I was referring to the guest tickets for the marshals which gave that right and that has also been taken away.
You have been warned!
This year every pass will bear a proper bar code and every security guard at every point of the circuit - be it paddocks, parking or whatever - will have a bar code scanner. The ACO are determined to stamp out the false passes which, with the advent of good scanners and printers, have become prevalent. They are going further the year after with bracelets for each level although I don't think this will apply to ordinary entry tickets but the levels above. They are installing airport type gateway scanners and the wrist bracelet will carry an electronic chip which will or will not allow entry to certain areas according to the level of the pass.
Incidentally, in my last post on security some of you picked up on the fact that tickets did not give the right to paddock access and you were right - I was referring to the guest tickets for the marshals which gave that right and that has also been taken away.
You have been warned!
Blimey, they are spending a LOT on security. The tags you talk of, although cheap, are expensive to implement as they are going to have ensure EVERY entrance that requires higher access is covered by a gaurd with an RFID reader (RFID being the name of the tech. used in the bracelets), or turnstiles (sp?) with RFID readers built into them. And thats after issuing every gaurd with a barcode scanner this year, which will no doubt become obselete in this context with the introduction of RFID bracelets.
I didn't realise security was such a major issue. I'd be interested to know how much they are spending on this, and how much they estimate they are going to save. As I believe you said in a previous post, the ACO really are becoming very money conscious.
I didn't realise security was such a major issue. I'd be interested to know how much they are spending on this, and how much they estimate they are going to save. As I believe you said in a previous post, the ACO really are becoming very money conscious.
No, if I understand the situation correctly, the scanners will still carry on in the future for parking and camp sites but on the inside they are installing gateways for paddock entry, pit entry and so on. My press passes, for example, give me the right to pit access up to the race but not during which I suppose will be programmed into the bracelet and the gateway. Even the company which is printing the tickets and passes have had their allocation of free passes severely reduced this year, as has everyone. Part of this is money orientated, but once again the great god Health and Safety is rearing its head. If I get any more news nearer the time I'll post again.
Thanks for the news, lynx. I agree with teddy. Anything that can be done to inhibit overcrowding in the campsites and car parks, including pitching tents in reserved car park spaces, has to be a move for the better. If it also means fewer people inside the circuit this may mean better safety: I've notice it getting increasingly crowded at some times and at some popular spots over the years, and it can feel threatening. Maybe ACO are also going to get better revenue to pay for the significant upgrades to facilities around the curcuit and in the village, which has been long overdue.
No doubt this thread will attract comments from other LMers who will feel ACO will be spoiling their "fun", if that's what it is.
No doubt this thread will attract comments from other LMers who will feel ACO will be spoiling their "fun", if that's what it is.
Whilst most of you know my views on fake passes etc., and I am very glad to see some real action from that ACO.
I wonder how the barcode set up will work? If I've copied a pass it will have a barcode on it won't it? If that is scanned by a security guy with a scanner won't it just work as a barcode (or is my non technical nature showing here?). Doesn't this only work if they have the ability to clock cars in and out so like on a GP F1 Paddock the gate knows that you clocked in, therefore it won't let you clock in again until you have clocked out (to stop people using passes twice). Otherwise how will the system know that this is a second pass number 007 or whether I've just popped out and come back in again?
Lynx if you've got friends in high places what I'd REALLY like to know is how the ACO intend to deal with Maison Blanche on the Monday morning before the race. The site is now we understand (although they haven't actually told most of Joe Public) zoned, so I have four passes for zone B. I've seen a plan that lays out spaces but my understanding is that there will be no laid out spaces on the ground this year.
I don't entirely understand how I will know (on the ground) where Zone B is and how and where I should set up camp. The map shows lines of spaces that don't reflect how the space is normally used but, in the absence of those lines being marked, I don't understand how I will know where to camp? Is it the ACO's intention to put sufficient (ie lots) of English speaking security personnel on the site this year to ensure people take the right amount of space, in the right zone and in the right place?
The lines of spaces look to me like they have designed to provide a proper firebreak system which is long overdue so I don't have any issue with it I just fear that without enough bodies to deal with the large queue on Monday morning it will just be a free for all and I really don't want to get pitched and then be told to move!
I wonder how the barcode set up will work? If I've copied a pass it will have a barcode on it won't it? If that is scanned by a security guy with a scanner won't it just work as a barcode (or is my non technical nature showing here?). Doesn't this only work if they have the ability to clock cars in and out so like on a GP F1 Paddock the gate knows that you clocked in, therefore it won't let you clock in again until you have clocked out (to stop people using passes twice). Otherwise how will the system know that this is a second pass number 007 or whether I've just popped out and come back in again?
Lynx if you've got friends in high places what I'd REALLY like to know is how the ACO intend to deal with Maison Blanche on the Monday morning before the race. The site is now we understand (although they haven't actually told most of Joe Public) zoned, so I have four passes for zone B. I've seen a plan that lays out spaces but my understanding is that there will be no laid out spaces on the ground this year.
I don't entirely understand how I will know (on the ground) where Zone B is and how and where I should set up camp. The map shows lines of spaces that don't reflect how the space is normally used but, in the absence of those lines being marked, I don't understand how I will know where to camp? Is it the ACO's intention to put sufficient (ie lots) of English speaking security personnel on the site this year to ensure people take the right amount of space, in the right zone and in the right place?
The lines of spaces look to me like they have designed to provide a proper firebreak system which is long overdue so I don't have any issue with it I just fear that without enough bodies to deal with the large queue on Monday morning it will just be a free for all and I really don't want to get pitched and then be told to move!
I'm no techno whizkid so I can't answer the first part of your question piglet but IMHO perhaps there is an element of, say, metal in the bar code paint on an original pass which is detected but isn't on the scanned one? As regards the second part of your question I'd like you to know that no man hath greater devotion than this. I'll get in the car and pop up to the ACO office this afternoon for you if I have the time since it is a while since I saw Janine at the bar just north of the circuit entrance anyway! I'll try and get a plan of the Maison Blanche camping site or at least get someone to explain to me what is going on. Being the ACO though, I am not sure I'll get a result. We'll see.
How will the scanning work? Will there be a central computer that keeps a track of which pass/vehicle is inside the camp and scan you on both entry and exit? Otherwise surely a duplicate pass will scan just as well as an original, and as many cars will come and go many times over the week, you can't just keep a track of it a single pass has been scanned yet or not.
I admire and appreciate your devotion Lynx! Does my query make sense? What I can see happening is them just opening the gates at 8am Monday morning (with a queue up the road) and just letting everyone in.
I had understood that part of the reason for zoning was to enforce the correct use of space (which they could have done without zoning...) and to ensure that there is space left for latecomers - the second one can perhaps only happen if the early people are forced to perhaps pitch in order so that there is a lump of space left for latecomers rather than there being 35 x 1 space pitches being spread all over the site come Friday which is no use to anyone who has two passes and wants to camp together.
I await your update!
I had understood that part of the reason for zoning was to enforce the correct use of space (which they could have done without zoning...) and to ensure that there is space left for latecomers - the second one can perhaps only happen if the early people are forced to perhaps pitch in order so that there is a lump of space left for latecomers rather than there being 35 x 1 space pitches being spread all over the site come Friday which is no use to anyone who has two passes and wants to camp together.
I await your update!
Piglet, I went up to the circuit a while back and then had to spend time in the bar alongside after my conversation with the people at the ACO. Here is a plan for this year's camping at Maison Blanche.
The area "D" isn't too well shown because they don't have a colour copier and so I got the lady to define each area with her biro. Where the letters D & E are is the track side of the camping and A is alongside the road. This year it is the first to arrive who will grab the best places but from 2008 each pitch will be numbered, but not for this year for some reason.
As regards the scanning of passes, none of us thought of the simple solution the ACO has come up with and I have to say that, for the french, their logic is impeccable. Just think in binary code...........
If someone has already entered the parking/camping the scanner will show it (so binary 1) and when they leave the scanner will also show it (binary 0). So, if a vehicle is already in the camping area with this bar code then no other vehicle will be allowed in until that one leaves. The system is currently being tested at the moment prior to Le Mans.
I assume that plenty of beer will be ewinging its way to me in recompense for the time I had to spend in the bar today on your behalf. Oh, how I suffer for the cause!
The area "D" isn't too well shown because they don't have a colour copier and so I got the lady to define each area with her biro. Where the letters D & E are is the track side of the camping and A is alongside the road. This year it is the first to arrive who will grab the best places but from 2008 each pitch will be numbered, but not for this year for some reason.
As regards the scanning of passes, none of us thought of the simple solution the ACO has come up with and I have to say that, for the french, their logic is impeccable. Just think in binary code...........
If someone has already entered the parking/camping the scanner will show it (so binary 1) and when they leave the scanner will also show it (binary 0). So, if a vehicle is already in the camping area with this bar code then no other vehicle will be allowed in until that one leaves. The system is currently being tested at the moment prior to Le Mans.
I assume that plenty of beer will be ewinging its way to me in recompense for the time I had to spend in the bar today on your behalf. Oh, how I suffer for the cause!
Having previously camped on the Maison Blanche 'roundabout' section at the bottom of your map, I can't see them being able to get that many plots on it.
The binary check on the scan seems a simple enough solution, but we'll all have to check they've successfully scanned us on the way out, otherwise we'll be sunk on our return.
The binary check on the scan seems a simple enough solution, but we'll all have to check they've successfully scanned us on the way out, otherwise we'll be sunk on our return.
But what if someone has a fake ticket with your barcode number on, and they go in first and setup camp? You will not be able to get into the campsite because apparently you are already there. So it doesn't prevent ticket fraud, just means someone who has purchased a ticket may get turned away from their campsite. And it really wouldn't be hard to fake a campsite ticket, and then print a barcode on that is a few digits different from an authentic campsite pass.
They could go round and find the duplicate pass and have to two people battle it out in a cage fighting match, but that would be to much effort for the french security gaurds to arrange. So instead they'll just shrug their shoulders and point in the dircetion away from Le Mans.
I can see Le Mans going the same way as Glastonbury on the security front.
They could go round and find the duplicate pass and have to two people battle it out in a cage fighting match, but that would be to much effort for the french security gaurds to arrange. So instead they'll just shrug their shoulders and point in the dircetion away from Le Mans.
I can see Le Mans going the same way as Glastonbury on the security front.
Cheers Lynx - beer will be forthcoming!
The MB sounds a bit like I'd anticipated then, they'll just open the gate and leave it to the campers to work out if they are pitching in the right place! Which isn't as simple as it sounds! We spent ages trying to work out where we'd been last year when we first saw the map. Presumably then they are not going to try to enfore the rows as this will be almost impossible without markings?
I'm still not sure about the scanning, firstly as commented above, any pass with a barcode will presumably be recognised by the scanner so I don't understand how that deals with photocopied passes. I suppose the logic is that the person holding the original pass must be the person who copied it so it doesn't matter whether the system stops the original or the copy? It would make be very wary of buyign passes on ebay this year. You might get the original pass but who knows if it's been copied for the original owner to use?
Secondly (and maybe this is the technically stupid side of my brain talking) will the info be held on the scanner or on some form of wireless system. I guess it will be some form of wireless system otherwise the same scanner would need to be used each time?
Note to self: be VERY careful to put pass well below the tinted windscreen glass in case of problems!
The MB sounds a bit like I'd anticipated then, they'll just open the gate and leave it to the campers to work out if they are pitching in the right place! Which isn't as simple as it sounds! We spent ages trying to work out where we'd been last year when we first saw the map. Presumably then they are not going to try to enfore the rows as this will be almost impossible without markings?
I'm still not sure about the scanning, firstly as commented above, any pass with a barcode will presumably be recognised by the scanner so I don't understand how that deals with photocopied passes. I suppose the logic is that the person holding the original pass must be the person who copied it so it doesn't matter whether the system stops the original or the copy? It would make be very wary of buyign passes on ebay this year. You might get the original pass but who knows if it's been copied for the original owner to use?
Secondly (and maybe this is the technically stupid side of my brain talking) will the info be held on the scanner or on some form of wireless system. I guess it will be some form of wireless system otherwise the same scanner would need to be used each time?
Note to self: be VERY careful to put pass well below the tinted windscreen glass in case of problems!
First of all - don't shoot the messenger please! I have never camped at Maison Blanche since even before I moved here years back I used to camp inside of the Mulsanne bend on the golf course since we were friends of the captain there - can't do it nowadays though! I have no idea therefore if the number of places in any of the areas is reasonable or not.
I agree with Piglet that buying passes and campsites on Ebay could be very dodgy now though. If the passes are very good forgeries and the person has sold them umpteen times under different identities then only the first to arrive will be able to get in and those, perhaps, with the original passes will be left outside. However, I'd have a damned good look at any passes bought this way and check that the sticky tape is in place and the colours are all there underneath to start with. This has been happening for yonks with concert tickets. It therefore seems logical to only buy tickets and camping from a reputable source and then - if your pass has been scanned - then it could only have been you that scanned it? Well, in theory anyway.
Perhaps in the end the ACO will think all this through and abandon it this year. I have no idea but I report things as they currently are, not as I would like them to be. I am not trying to be a harbinger of doom, just trying to prevent problems arising. Hey, we all know that in the past it was a game of GB versus the ACO and that anything went, but now they are getting wise to events and raising the bar. You'll just have to jump higher!
Whatever, I'd like sometime to pop down to Maison Blanche and perhaps meet some of you, so if you here an express train arriving it will be the exhaust (108DB) of the D type. Wave and I'll stop as I do the tour of the site.
I agree with Piglet that buying passes and campsites on Ebay could be very dodgy now though. If the passes are very good forgeries and the person has sold them umpteen times under different identities then only the first to arrive will be able to get in and those, perhaps, with the original passes will be left outside. However, I'd have a damned good look at any passes bought this way and check that the sticky tape is in place and the colours are all there underneath to start with. This has been happening for yonks with concert tickets. It therefore seems logical to only buy tickets and camping from a reputable source and then - if your pass has been scanned - then it could only have been you that scanned it? Well, in theory anyway.
Perhaps in the end the ACO will think all this through and abandon it this year. I have no idea but I report things as they currently are, not as I would like them to be. I am not trying to be a harbinger of doom, just trying to prevent problems arising. Hey, we all know that in the past it was a game of GB versus the ACO and that anything went, but now they are getting wise to events and raising the bar. You'll just have to jump higher!
Whatever, I'd like sometime to pop down to Maison Blanche and perhaps meet some of you, so if you here an express train arriving it will be the exhaust (108DB) of the D type. Wave and I'll stop as I do the tour of the site.
mikey_p said:
But what if someone has a fake ticket with your barcode number on, and they go in first and setup camp? You will not be able to get into the campsite because apparently you are already there. So it doesn't prevent ticket fraud, just means someone who has purchased a ticket may get turned away from their campsite. And it really wouldn't be hard to fake a campsite ticket, and then print a barcode on that is a few digits different from an authentic campsite pass.
They could go round and find the duplicate pass and have to two people battle it out in a cage fighting match, but that would be to much effort for the french security gaurds to arrange. So instead they'll just shrug their shoulders and point in the dircetion away from Le Mans.
I can see Le Mans going the same way as Glastonbury on the security front.
That sounds likely. After the first few fracas when a legit ticker holder holds up the queue for the scanner and everyone behind gets irate, le frenchie doing the scanning will ignore it rather than have a stand up fight with a queue of foreigners already pissed off from having to wait in a queue to be scanned. They could go round and find the duplicate pass and have to two people battle it out in a cage fighting match, but that would be to much effort for the french security gaurds to arrange. So instead they'll just shrug their shoulders and point in the dircetion away from Le Mans.
I can see Le Mans going the same way as Glastonbury on the security front.
To be on the safe side take a sheep - stuffed obviously - and at the first sign of trouble at the scanners burn the thing. It works for them.
victormeldrew said:
mikey_p said:
But what if someone has a fake ticket with your barcode number on, and they go in first and setup camp? You will not be able to get into the campsite because apparently you are already there. So it doesn't prevent ticket fraud, just means someone who has purchased a ticket may get turned away from their campsite. And it really wouldn't be hard to fake a campsite ticket, and then print a barcode on that is a few digits different from an authentic campsite pass.
They could go round and find the duplicate pass and have to two people battle it out in a cage fighting match, but that would be to much effort for the french security gaurds to arrange. So instead they'll just shrug their shoulders and point in the dircetion away from Le Mans.
I can see Le Mans going the same way as Glastonbury on the security front.
That sounds likely. After the first few fracas when a legit ticker holder holds up the queue for the scanner and everyone behind gets irate, le frenchie doing the scanning will ignore it rather than have a stand up fight with a queue of foreigners already pissed off from having to wait in a queue to be scanned. They could go round and find the duplicate pass and have to two people battle it out in a cage fighting match, but that would be to much effort for the french security gaurds to arrange. So instead they'll just shrug their shoulders and point in the dircetion away from Le Mans.
I can see Le Mans going the same way as Glastonbury on the security front.
To be on the safe side take a sheep - stuffed obviously - and at the first sign of trouble at the scanners burn the thing. It works for them.
know what you're saying, but I'm not sure it'll be that problem for the camping. Afterall, people leave campsites all the time, both by foot and by vehicle, and to keep track of it all would be very difficult.
I do agree with the tighter security surrounding the pits/paddock access, although it's always fun to get under the podium after the race. I hope we can still do that...
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