Celica 190 VVTI - cheap track day car/road hack...
Discussion
..searching for a "second/third car" that could be used on track (mainly Type R Civics/Mazda RX-8, type stuff), I stumbled across an add on ebay for a Celica 190. As its down the road from me, I went to look at it earlier. It hasn't exactly been loved and I wasn't allowed to drive it on the main road (!) but in my examination and drive around the service road, I could detect no weird engine noises/transmission noises/suspension noises, it all seemed reasonably tight, given the 120K miles and I was comforted that 7000 miles since its last service, the oil was between half way and full on the dip stick....also, despite kerbing of the front wheels, the bodywork wasn't too bad, just scratches and a feeling that it hasn't had a good wash/polish for a few years!!
So, assuming this no reserve auction doesn't make big money, would a cheap Celica for perhaps just over a grand (the likely final price) be any good for weekend thrashes and occasional track days? I hear they handle sweetly.
Here is the link.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2001-51-TOYOTA-CELICA-1-...
k-ink said:
These are rather noisy and tinny inside. You have to thrash them to get a real hustle on, which can be tiring. Fine for local short trips. It depends whether you like the VTEC style of driving. Not really my thing.
Noisy? Only at 120+ did the wind noise ever seem excessive to me. Solid build quality and always overlooked - it's effectively a cheaper Integra but without the scene tax and fan boys. Oh and about 10hp difference. An LSD would be preferable for a track car I must admit, having suffered in damp conditions with some spirited driving on the roads this will quickly spin up one wheel. With decent rubber it shouldn't be a deal breaker though.
Another issue is the brakes, they often need a good flush and new fluid as they tend to feel a bit wooden. Work well once sorted though. The final item on the list would be the gear linkage / synchro mesh, years of being granny shifted from 2nd to 3rd will take its toll. Again, plenty of info out there to improve these things.
Now I await the blinkered-by-red-H's brigade on how this corolla-based, light, sporty coupe is nothing like their Civic-based, light sporty coupe because it doesn't have a Type R badge...
If you get another chance to drive before buying it is worth trying to get the engine warm and listen to the engine between 1500-2500 rpm whilst driving as there is a common fault on the 1.8 VVTI engines to do with bottom end bearings (or something like that) which is quite noticeable.
C.A.R. said:
Noisy? Only at 120+ did the wind noise ever seem excessive to me. Solid build quality and always overlooked - it's effectively a cheaper Integra but without the scene tax and fan boys. Oh and about 10hp difference.
An LSD would be preferable for a track car I must admit, having suffered in damp conditions with some spirited driving on the roads this will quickly spin up one wheel. With decent rubber it shouldn't be a deal breaker though.
Another issue is the brakes, they often need a good flush and new fluid as they tend to feel a bit wooden. Work well once sorted though. The final item on the list would be the gear linkage / synchro mesh, years of being granny shifted from 2nd to 3rd will take its toll. Again, plenty of info out there to improve these things.
Now I await the blinkered-by-red-H's brigade on how this corolla-based, light, sporty coupe is nothing like their Civic-based, light sporty coupe because it doesn't have a Type R badge...
The Sport M comes with a Torsen diff - rarer and consequently pricier thoughAn LSD would be preferable for a track car I must admit, having suffered in damp conditions with some spirited driving on the roads this will quickly spin up one wheel. With decent rubber it shouldn't be a deal breaker though.
Another issue is the brakes, they often need a good flush and new fluid as they tend to feel a bit wooden. Work well once sorted though. The final item on the list would be the gear linkage / synchro mesh, years of being granny shifted from 2nd to 3rd will take its toll. Again, plenty of info out there to improve these things.
Now I await the blinkered-by-red-H's brigade on how this corolla-based, light, sporty coupe is nothing like their Civic-based, light sporty coupe because it doesn't have a Type R badge...
In this comparison test Celica 190 did very well. Placed second in overall, but it was best in driving gategories.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/toyota-cel...
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/toyota-cel...
vtecyo said:
C.A.R. said:
it's effectively a cheaper Integra but without the scene tax and fan boys. Oh and about 10hp difference.
No, it really isn't. They're good don't get me wrong, but an integra is a totally different kettle of worms. k-ink said:
Of course it is perfectly liveable. I don't doubt the DC2 is a slightly superior car. But they cost at least twice as much money for the same condition. If you want a manic little car the Toyota is fine and offers good value.
Integras are hard to find in decent condition but their hero status is well deserved. The levels Honda went to to make the Type R were very extensive. It is a GP N homologation after all.The Toyota is not nearly as focused. A decent car but cheaper for good reason.
Having just lost my first message in response... until a week ago, the car in the advert was my car for the past seven years.
It'll scrub up just fine, but last year we had our twins in NICU for half the year, so a good clean is long overdue. Prior to that, it was cleaned and waxed fairly regularly. At work I park on a road with those lovely rough / rustic kerbs, and also under trees, hence the condition of the front wheels in particular.
I've emailed you with some further details of the car.
It'll scrub up just fine, but last year we had our twins in NICU for half the year, so a good clean is long overdue. Prior to that, it was cleaned and waxed fairly regularly. At work I park on a road with those lovely rough / rustic kerbs, and also under trees, hence the condition of the front wheels in particular.
I've emailed you with some further details of the car.
Edited by Miocene on Sunday 13th March 07:27
Ive owned 2 Gen7 Celicas, thoroughly enjoyed them both. The first was an early VVTi (1ZZ, 140hp) and was quite frankly underpowered. The 2nd was a Jap import SS-II (2ZZ, 190hp), I won't pretend to know the exact specs of the SS-II but I imagine it's virtually identical to a UK VVTLi/ 190 (with some GT bits thrown at it). Mine came with some nice modifications, the Tein Superstreet coilovers (~£1100 IIRC) which were fantastic. The bodywork (which looks ricey/ OTT now) was all factory incidentally...
No comment re those headlight covers; I didn't fit them!
A good friend owned a DC2 Integra at the time, and the Celica stayed with him comfortably on every drive (admittedly I don't know exactly what mods my car had, but it did have an aftermarket manifold and exhaust amongst other bits).
There is no sensible argument to make re the Gen7 being the DC2s 'equal', but it's closer than anyone gives it credit for and great vfm when you consider current prices.
Mine proved to be bullet proof over a couple years ownership, was driven HARD regularly, and wasn't exactly fastidiously maintained by my younger, dafter self...
Tl;dr a 190 Celica would make a good cheap and cheerful track toy, and is a fun daily driver. Youd have to be desperately unlucky to have that 2ZZ bork on you too (something which definitely can't be said for the early 1ZZs), so buy with confidence.
No comment re those headlight covers; I didn't fit them!
A good friend owned a DC2 Integra at the time, and the Celica stayed with him comfortably on every drive (admittedly I don't know exactly what mods my car had, but it did have an aftermarket manifold and exhaust amongst other bits).
There is no sensible argument to make re the Gen7 being the DC2s 'equal', but it's closer than anyone gives it credit for and great vfm when you consider current prices.
Mine proved to be bullet proof over a couple years ownership, was driven HARD regularly, and wasn't exactly fastidiously maintained by my younger, dafter self...
Tl;dr a 190 Celica would make a good cheap and cheerful track toy, and is a fun daily driver. Youd have to be desperately unlucky to have that 2ZZ bork on you too (something which definitely can't be said for the early 1ZZs), so buy with confidence.
daveofedinburgh said:
Ive owned 2 Gen7 Celicas, thoroughly enjoyed them both. The first was an early VVTi (1ZZ, 140hp) and was quite frankly underpowered. The 2nd was a Jap import SS-II (2ZZ, 190hp), I won't pretend to know the exact specs of the SS-II but I imagine it's virtually identical to a UK VVTLi/ 190 (with some GT bits thrown at it). Mine came with some nice modifications, the Tein Superstreet coilovers (~£1100 IIRC) which were fantastic. The bodywork (which looks ricey/ OTT now) was all factory incidentally...
No comment re those headlight covers; I didn't fit them!
A good friend owned a DC2 Integra at the time, and the Celica stayed with him comfortably on every drive (admittedly I don't know exactly what mods my car had, but it did have an aftermarket manifold and exhaust amongst other bits).
There is no sensible argument to make re the Gen7 being the DC2s 'equal', but it's closer than anyone gives it credit for and great vfm when you consider current prices.
Mine proved to be bullet proof over a couple years ownership, was driven HARD regularly, and wasn't exactly fastidiously maintained by my younger, dafter self...
Tl;dr a 190 Celica would make a good cheap and cheerful track toy, and is a fun daily driver. Youd have to be desperately unlucky to have that 2ZZ bork on you too (something which definitely can't be said for the early 1ZZs), so buy with confidence.
I would have thought the limited edition Sports M would be very close in ethos to the DC2 Dave?No comment re those headlight covers; I didn't fit them!
A good friend owned a DC2 Integra at the time, and the Celica stayed with him comfortably on every drive (admittedly I don't know exactly what mods my car had, but it did have an aftermarket manifold and exhaust amongst other bits).
There is no sensible argument to make re the Gen7 being the DC2s 'equal', but it's closer than anyone gives it credit for and great vfm when you consider current prices.
Mine proved to be bullet proof over a couple years ownership, was driven HARD regularly, and wasn't exactly fastidiously maintained by my younger, dafter self...
Tl;dr a 190 Celica would make a good cheap and cheerful track toy, and is a fun daily driver. Youd have to be desperately unlucky to have that 2ZZ bork on you too (something which definitely can't be said for the early 1ZZs), so buy with confidence.
Weren't they around a similar price though to the Integra?
They might be coming more collectible now with only 1200 made - not as the cheap as the normal 190
Miocene said:
Having just lost my first message in response... until a week ago, the car in the advert was my car for the past seven years.
It'll scrub up just fine, but last year we had our twins in NICU for half the year, so a good clean is long overdue. Prior to that, it was cleaned and waxed fairly regularly. At work I park on a road with those lovely rough / rustic kerbs, and also under trees, hence the condition of the front wheels in particular.
I've emailed you with some further details of the car.
Message sent back, many thanks for the e-mail!! It'll scrub up just fine, but last year we had our twins in NICU for half the year, so a good clean is long overdue. Prior to that, it was cleaned and waxed fairly regularly. At work I park on a road with those lovely rough / rustic kerbs, and also under trees, hence the condition of the front wheels in particular.
I've emailed you with some further details of the car.
Edited by Miocene on Sunday 13th March 07:27
..interesting all these comparisons with the Integra Type R DC02. I looked up the Celica on "fastest laps", to see what it could do and they have a lap time for Hockenheim where the Celica was a mere 0.1 sec slower than the DC02....so, given they are both high revving coupe's I think the "poor mans Integra" mantra isn't unreasonable....The cheapest DC02 I can find anywhere on the net is about £3995 with 150,000 miles on it...whereas I've found a 63,000 mile Celica for £2395...on that basis, I do think these Mk7 Celicas are great value sporty cars....
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff