Which 6k "modern classic"? mk1 TT, Z3, SLK or Boxster S?
Discussion
I have owned some "modern classics" before as 2nd/weekend cars 10-15 years ago (205 GTi, E30 325i Cabriolet, Corrado VR6), all bought for less than 3k when the market was near the bottom but still lost money when it came to selling them on. However, I have seen values rise considerably on vehicles such as these over the last few years. For the last 10 years, I have been restricted to one vehicle, so boring stuff like low running costs, fuel economy, reliability and practicality have had to take precedence over performance and style but I'm thinking of dipping my toe in the water in the next year or so again with a 2nd/weekend car but to appease my wife, it would need to be something that is hardly going to depreciate or maybe even appreciate in value assuming that it will be garaged, well-looked after and that I'm not going to be piling the miles on it as a daily.
All of the below cars have appealed to me at some point and offer style and performance, hopefully whilst not depreciating heavily or raping my wallet! All but the Porsche can be bought for shed money but I would consider spending up to 6k for something in the right spec, in A1 condition and less than 100k. Some of them may be considered as "modern classics" in the future, if not already. So for 6k, which of these cars would offer the best balance between enjoyment, low running costs and strong residuals?
Audi TT 225 quattro mk1 - The roadster may be the more desirable car but I have always liked the iconic styling of the coupe and it's the only car here where my 2 and 4 year old could potentially come along for the ride. Quite quick but perhaps not the most enjoyable car here?
BMW Z3 2.2i Sport - Again, I think that the styling has aged really well and the 2.2 may not be that quick but quick enough to be enjoyable, not too bad on fuel and sounds lovely
R170 Mercedes-Benz SLK230 - I think that there may also have been a V6 option but the 230 Kompressor seems the most plentiful, I've driven one and it's quick enough, still looks sharp and the folding metal roof is a masterpiece of engineering.
986 Porsche Boxster S - 6k won't get me into an as new or low mileage example as the others and potentially the most (engine?) reliability issues but being a Porsche, it arguably has the most cachet and is probably the best driver's car.
It doesn't have to be German but I can't think of anything British or Italian for the money that's not going to have the potential to bankrupt me. Mazda RX8 R3, Nissan 350Z, Honda S2000 may be potential alternatives but I have a feeling that they all have some way to fall in value before prices start firming up. So, which option offers the best compromise between enjoyment and low overall ownership costs? (i.e. factoring in running costs and depreciation).
All of the below cars have appealed to me at some point and offer style and performance, hopefully whilst not depreciating heavily or raping my wallet! All but the Porsche can be bought for shed money but I would consider spending up to 6k for something in the right spec, in A1 condition and less than 100k. Some of them may be considered as "modern classics" in the future, if not already. So for 6k, which of these cars would offer the best balance between enjoyment, low running costs and strong residuals?
Audi TT 225 quattro mk1 - The roadster may be the more desirable car but I have always liked the iconic styling of the coupe and it's the only car here where my 2 and 4 year old could potentially come along for the ride. Quite quick but perhaps not the most enjoyable car here?
BMW Z3 2.2i Sport - Again, I think that the styling has aged really well and the 2.2 may not be that quick but quick enough to be enjoyable, not too bad on fuel and sounds lovely
R170 Mercedes-Benz SLK230 - I think that there may also have been a V6 option but the 230 Kompressor seems the most plentiful, I've driven one and it's quick enough, still looks sharp and the folding metal roof is a masterpiece of engineering.
986 Porsche Boxster S - 6k won't get me into an as new or low mileage example as the others and potentially the most (engine?) reliability issues but being a Porsche, it arguably has the most cachet and is probably the best driver's car.
It doesn't have to be German but I can't think of anything British or Italian for the money that's not going to have the potential to bankrupt me. Mazda RX8 R3, Nissan 350Z, Honda S2000 may be potential alternatives but I have a feeling that they all have some way to fall in value before prices start firming up. So, which option offers the best compromise between enjoyment and low overall ownership costs? (i.e. factoring in running costs and depreciation).
Classic recommend your own but I am head over heels in love with the boxster I bought for 4 grand this year.
A mates dad has now bought an absolutely stunner for 5 just recently too. With a budget of 6 grand you could get something really, really quite special. Its frankly ridiculous how cheap Boxsters are currently, given the price of just about every other Porsche that pre-dates it.
Note that I have also considered and tested every other car on your list at some point in the past.
If your interested - head to Porsche section and pick up the 'Poverty Pork' thread - theres a good few evenings reading to get through to gen up on Porsche purchasing.
A mates dad has now bought an absolutely stunner for 5 just recently too. With a budget of 6 grand you could get something really, really quite special. Its frankly ridiculous how cheap Boxsters are currently, given the price of just about every other Porsche that pre-dates it.
Note that I have also considered and tested every other car on your list at some point in the past.
If your interested - head to Porsche section and pick up the 'Poverty Pork' thread - theres a good few evenings reading to get through to gen up on Porsche purchasing.
Can't speak for the other Japs, but a good quality S2000 has already 'firmed'.
I spend most evenings looking at 3.2 Boxster S's and wondering if I should swap mine... for the 6 cylinder engine and badge really... I've test driven one before and it was pretty muscular..
But after a wash, wax and hoon, I can't see me letting go of the Honda for some time yet, the gearshift, interior and engine all have too much character and the exterior design is a bit more edgey IMO.
I realise an inline 4 is the bottom of the rung power plant wise, but vtec and 9000rpm make it one of the best. An AEM ECU will bring down the vtec 'moment' to 4600rpm which avoids the problem that unless you're gunning it everywhere it may as well be a shopping-Civic.. that feeling is still a little present, but having a schizophrenic car is no bad thing... the only REAL downside is cruising on a motorway at 5000rpm... takes a bit of mind shift to get used to.
Servicing and reliability make it very cost effective though, especially in pre-March 2006 reduced tax guise.
I spend most evenings looking at 3.2 Boxster S's and wondering if I should swap mine... for the 6 cylinder engine and badge really... I've test driven one before and it was pretty muscular..
But after a wash, wax and hoon, I can't see me letting go of the Honda for some time yet, the gearshift, interior and engine all have too much character and the exterior design is a bit more edgey IMO.
I realise an inline 4 is the bottom of the rung power plant wise, but vtec and 9000rpm make it one of the best. An AEM ECU will bring down the vtec 'moment' to 4600rpm which avoids the problem that unless you're gunning it everywhere it may as well be a shopping-Civic.. that feeling is still a little present, but having a schizophrenic car is no bad thing... the only REAL downside is cruising on a motorway at 5000rpm... takes a bit of mind shift to get used to.
Servicing and reliability make it very cost effective though, especially in pre-March 2006 reduced tax guise.
bigee said:
As you have stated the Boxster S is by far the best drive of that selection. Its probably as cheap as it is going to get....surely ?
You may have a point there. I don't think a tidy 2000 Boxster S in the right spec can drop much further but maybe the newer 986s still can? My only issue is that 6k only gets you a 2000 Boxster S with 80k+ but you can get a lower mileage 2002- example of the other cars for the same money and they'll probably be the best examples out there rather than the best for the budget (Boxster S) and the Boxster S has potentially the most expensive parts and the biggest chance of going "bang"! No, rough or leggy examples of TTs, SLKs and Z3s may be down into shed territory but tidy late models may still hold their value well?We had a MK1 TT 225... nice car, reliable, but uninspiring to drive... liked it though.
The Z3 are OK... but seem to suffer a failure of the rear diff mounting. I looked at several, (all were 2.8 cars) and they all had the start of the diff mounting failing. Look in the boot, at the boot floor and look at the spot welds very carefully... if any have cracks, or circles of rust... its starting to fail. not an easy fix, this put me off buying one. (google "bmw z3 diff mounting failure")
the Boxster... Engine failures put me of that one. seems to be a case of not if, but when, just not worth the risk on a car I was going to keep.
SLK... good mechanical s, but every one I looked at had rust on it... A mate has a very low miles 2002 car and is for ever touching the thing up... again, put me right off.
The Z3 are OK... but seem to suffer a failure of the rear diff mounting. I looked at several, (all were 2.8 cars) and they all had the start of the diff mounting failing. Look in the boot, at the boot floor and look at the spot welds very carefully... if any have cracks, or circles of rust... its starting to fail. not an easy fix, this put me off buying one. (google "bmw z3 diff mounting failure")
the Boxster... Engine failures put me of that one. seems to be a case of not if, but when, just not worth the risk on a car I was going to keep.
SLK... good mechanical s, but every one I looked at had rust on it... A mate has a very low miles 2002 car and is for ever touching the thing up... again, put me right off.
Consider getting less pre-occupied with image & the badge & in the cases of the cars quoted beware serious money when things go wrong. Think overpriced parts just because they have Porsche or BMW stamped on them.
My guess is that the idea of an MX-5 will get a sneer because of it's soft image but nothing beats them for smiles per miles & up-keep is loose change.
Prices hold up well.
MK 1 prices can be silly & they rust. Being such a small car you will feel vulnerable.
Mk 2 can be cheaper & has a less toy-car look to them. As with Mk 1's they do rust.
Mk 3 The lumpy shape not to everybody's taste nor is the handling at the limit, but given that most people are deluded as to their ability that should not be a problem. Massive choice, later models had air & cruise.
No doubt the Eunos the cheapo penny-pinching option for the poor is well below your aspirations & rightly so.
You mention the Honda S2000. Prices very much on the up or at the worse plateaued. Problem is they have got into the hands of the Chav element & finding one that hasn't been messed with by such petrol children is difficult. The hard ride is a pain as is lack of appointments such as cruise if you do long journeys, & road tax for 2006-on cars in the £400's.
Would add I have owned MX-5's & Honda S2000's, the City rich flash-git image of Porsche & BMW would spoil ownership for me.
The SLK (of which I have owned a few) is an interesting option especially older versions which have lost much of the prestige & are more socially acceptable. A bit hairdresser image as per the MX-5 & I sense that the lowly engine versions of which there are more to choose from would not be good enough for you. Servicing by some very well informed & experienced non-franchised dealers the way to go.
So a really well looked after R170/171 350 SLK it is then, so the best of luck.
My guess is that the idea of an MX-5 will get a sneer because of it's soft image but nothing beats them for smiles per miles & up-keep is loose change.
Prices hold up well.
MK 1 prices can be silly & they rust. Being such a small car you will feel vulnerable.
Mk 2 can be cheaper & has a less toy-car look to them. As with Mk 1's they do rust.
Mk 3 The lumpy shape not to everybody's taste nor is the handling at the limit, but given that most people are deluded as to their ability that should not be a problem. Massive choice, later models had air & cruise.
No doubt the Eunos the cheapo penny-pinching option for the poor is well below your aspirations & rightly so.
You mention the Honda S2000. Prices very much on the up or at the worse plateaued. Problem is they have got into the hands of the Chav element & finding one that hasn't been messed with by such petrol children is difficult. The hard ride is a pain as is lack of appointments such as cruise if you do long journeys, & road tax for 2006-on cars in the £400's.
Would add I have owned MX-5's & Honda S2000's, the City rich flash-git image of Porsche & BMW would spoil ownership for me.
The SLK (of which I have owned a few) is an interesting option especially older versions which have lost much of the prestige & are more socially acceptable. A bit hairdresser image as per the MX-5 & I sense that the lowly engine versions of which there are more to choose from would not be good enough for you. Servicing by some very well informed & experienced non-franchised dealers the way to go.
So a really well looked after R170/171 350 SLK it is then, so the best of luck.
Actually you can't get s decent pre-tax hike facelift S2000 for £6k
I thought maybe you could.
Best I could find after a very quick look is:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
£6k gets you a more leggy pre-facelift model...so I guess these are outside your budget...
Pre-March 06 is £295 tax, afterwards is £500
I thought maybe you could.
Best I could find after a very quick look is:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
£6k gets you a more leggy pre-facelift model...so I guess these are outside your budget...
Pre-March 06 is £295 tax, afterwards is £500
For me it would Honda S2000. They look great, RWD, and an incredible engine and gearbox combo. I know they are meant to hairy drive in earlier form, but it is a proper sports car. They're also fairly rare and reliable... hard to go wrong, surely? In fact, i should get one!
The GTV was alright back in the day, but the game has moved on considerably.
The GTV was alright back in the day, but the game has moved on considerably.
DanielSan said:
Honda S2000
Best of the bunch and good, clean ones are already climbing.After that, Boxster S. Mainly as it's well designed, handles surprisingly well and has the right badge.
A Z3 would be next on my list but I wouldn't consider anything other than an ///M and I know they're already on he up.
Oh, and what about the Honda Integra Type R? A proper driver's car and a geek fest with the seam welded chassis, lighter windows.
For me it comes down to what is a classic. Yes, the Audi TT is a design classic, but will it ever be recognised as a true classic given it is dull as ditchwater and based on a Golf? The Z3 is also just a parts bin special that was average even in its day. At least the coupe version is quirky... I've never looked at either and thought "Phwoar - i'd get up early on a Sunday to drive that!".
For me it comes down to what is a classic. Yes, the Audi TT is a design classic, but will it ever be recognised as a true classic given it is dull as ditchwater and based on a Golf? The Z3 is also just a parts bin special that was average even in its day. At least the coupe version is quirky... I've never looked at either and thought "Phwoar - i'd get up early on a Sunday to drive that!".
The Crack Fox said:
I'm a little Tipo, short and stout...
Bloody pretty thing, though, isn't it?
Bear in mind that's a Cup, which you won't get for less than £6k.Bloody pretty thing, though, isn't it?
You might get a 'normal' GTV (2.0TS or 3.0V6) for under a couple of grand, but many are now very leggy and the GTV will leave you either constantly changing the belts, or cacking yourself a the thought of the inevitable (balancer belt can be...unpredicatable).
They also started to sponteanously combust in various examples when I owned one (2009 ish) due to the wiring and an unprotected rear demister circuit (from memory).
Also,the Rosso red ones suffer horrifically with car-eczema.
Shed money, yes. But in the context of the OP, I just don't think there's enough signs to say that a 'normal' GTV against the Cup, which is such a stand out desirable model.
Also, the Boxster engine issue isn't a case of "if" at all. Especially so if you get an early 'S' (1999 build, perhaps some in the 2000's) as these came from factory with the dual row bearing, so are as reliable as a 2.5 on that front. Even the single row bearing versions only have something like a 1.5% chance of failure (or perhaps lower than that).
Well, here's something leftfield for you to consider - A Lexus SC430.
V8, RWD, convertible hard-top - very reliable, comfortable, fast enough and refined.
I went through the same choices - pros/cons and what was going to make me (and the missus) feel good - I settled on the Lexus and haven't regretted it.
You can pick up something pretty decent for 6k - in the future I can see them rising in value.
If I had to choose between the cars in your title I'd probably settle for the TT - I had a 3.2 and it was quite enjoyable (though not particularly reliable).
V8, RWD, convertible hard-top - very reliable, comfortable, fast enough and refined.
I went through the same choices - pros/cons and what was going to make me (and the missus) feel good - I settled on the Lexus and haven't regretted it.
You can pick up something pretty decent for 6k - in the future I can see them rising in value.
If I had to choose between the cars in your title I'd probably settle for the TT - I had a 3.2 and it was quite enjoyable (though not particularly reliable).
white_goodman said:
bigee said:
As you have stated the Boxster S is by far the best drive of that selection. Its probably as cheap as it is going to get....surely ?
You may have a point there. I don't think a tidy 2000 Boxster S in the right spec can drop much further but maybe the newer 986s still can? My only issue is that 6k only gets you a 2000 Boxster S with 80k+ but you can get a lower mileage 2002- example of the other cars for the same money and they'll probably be the best examples out there rather than the best for the budget (Boxster S) and the Boxster S has potentially the most expensive parts and the biggest chance of going "bang"! No, rough or leggy examples of TTs, SLKs and Z3s may be down into shed territory but tidy late models may still hold their value well?https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381841559115
I have a 225 tt and a 2.8 z3. The tt of comfier, muh nicer interior has more toys and looks more modern. For a fun car though i#d have the Z3 all day long. Get a 2.8. The engine is amazing and it is two differnt cars roof up or down. Infact buy mine as it is for sale well below your budget.
Not sure i'd fancy any of them becoming classics. TT too boring, Z3 having the potential but never living up to it, SLK being too much of a cruiser, boxster having chocolate engines and too long gearing.
For my money, of a similair age and style, I would look at 350z. S2000 cant really be found for this money anymore, which is a shame. (350Z seem to actually still be coming down from where they were even last year, which is a very very pleasant surprise for me)
For my money, of a similair age and style, I would look at 350z. S2000 cant really be found for this money anymore, which is a shame. (350Z seem to actually still be coming down from where they were even last year, which is a very very pleasant surprise for me)
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