Mini Cooper s R53 JCW vs Bmw E46 330?
Discussion
Hi,
I understand these are two completely different cars but hear me out here.
I wanted something 'fun' and cheap - so I went bought a 05 Mini Cooper S R53 JCW 210bhp version last week. I've put it in the garage and doing the usual bits atm as its going to be a weekend blast occasional track car.
However...
Before I start buying coilovers / brakes / tyres etc, Ive suddenly got an urge for RWD. So started looking around.
Previously ive owned several 350z but I need 4 seats. - So looking at the E46 330. 231bhp, RWD, NA
-
Has anyone owned both? / what would you think is more fun? / with a limited budget what would you go for?
R53 or 330i?
Both would be on coils, decent rubber and uprated brakes.
Cheers
I understand these are two completely different cars but hear me out here.
I wanted something 'fun' and cheap - so I went bought a 05 Mini Cooper S R53 JCW 210bhp version last week. I've put it in the garage and doing the usual bits atm as its going to be a weekend blast occasional track car.
However...
Before I start buying coilovers / brakes / tyres etc, Ive suddenly got an urge for RWD. So started looking around.
Previously ive owned several 350z but I need 4 seats. - So looking at the E46 330. 231bhp, RWD, NA
-
Has anyone owned both? / what would you think is more fun? / with a limited budget what would you go for?
R53 or 330i?
Both would be on coils, decent rubber and uprated brakes.
Cheers
My old man has had both a Cooper S Workd and a 330d in MSport guise. Granted not the same but assume it will be similar to the i.
The S Works is still up there as one of if not the most fun car I have ever driven. It really is a fatastic little toy. BMW was very different. Engine was a masterpiece really, especially considering it was a diesel, but the car is just not in the same league as the Mini down a B road.
Both are fantastic cars though no doubt. I actually preferred the interior of the Mini. Quit fun and quirky. Sounded great as well with the supercharger and JCW exhaust.
It probably boils down to what you want it for. Don't automatically assume that RWD means more fun as people are so often led to believe on here. For track use the JCW is leagues ahead of a 330 imho. Same for B roads and probably most good A roads. Motorways and long hauls would be the only time I would choose the BMW.
The S Works is still up there as one of if not the most fun car I have ever driven. It really is a fatastic little toy. BMW was very different. Engine was a masterpiece really, especially considering it was a diesel, but the car is just not in the same league as the Mini down a B road.
Both are fantastic cars though no doubt. I actually preferred the interior of the Mini. Quit fun and quirky. Sounded great as well with the supercharger and JCW exhaust.
It probably boils down to what you want it for. Don't automatically assume that RWD means more fun as people are so often led to believe on here. For track use the JCW is leagues ahead of a 330 imho. Same for B roads and probably most good A roads. Motorways and long hauls would be the only time I would choose the BMW.
IMO the Mini is more fun. I disagree that adding extra bits adds fun, but that's your choice.
I was fortunate enough (well, I paid) for an airfield day where I learned limit control in cars of all sorts. FR, FF, MR etc. There were 5 cars in all, the 'best' of which was an XKRS. The mini was by far the most fun.
The e46 is a thoroughly brilliant car, cooling issues aside, but for fun, the Mini every time.
I was fortunate enough (well, I paid) for an airfield day where I learned limit control in cars of all sorts. FR, FF, MR etc. There were 5 cars in all, the 'best' of which was an XKRS. The mini was by far the most fun.
The e46 is a thoroughly brilliant car, cooling issues aside, but for fun, the Mini every time.
Dr Interceptor said:
MINI... Every time.
This^Personally I'm a tad adverse to torque steer but the R53 is cracking fun car. You might want to stiffen up the strut mounts as they are prone to mushrooming.
If you were to do a lot of track days and want RWD how about a 130i? Mnonsense setup isn't half bad. Chuck a diff on and decent tyres/pads and you would have a very capable occasional track car.
Second thoughts just stick with the Mini. Too much fun to be had if your spine can take it.
PlayFair said:
I would be looking to upgrade as the suspension is 12 years old and brakes for extra stopping power.
I'm surprised that the reactions on here hasn't been all going for the 330!
Because the 330i is a heavy, numb cruiser and is a very long way from being much good on track without spending a lot of money, which you will never back.I'm surprised that the reactions on here hasn't been all going for the 330!
The Cooper S JCW is a terrific little car that can double up as a brilliant track car needing very little done to be good on track, out the box its a great car.
I used to have a Alpina B3 3.3 which is as I'm sure you know, very similar to a 330ci just turned up to 11 I guess. Nice car it was, overly fun it wasn't.
About 6 months ago we toyed with getting my wife a 2008 Cooper S. I loved it, I think I had more fun in the 30minutes test driving that than I did in the whole time I owned the Alpina.
The Mini also felt more urgent although I didn't go above 70 afaicr. The Alpina would certainly be quicker above level speeds but that's not really what it's about is it.
About 6 months ago we toyed with getting my wife a 2008 Cooper S. I loved it, I think I had more fun in the 30minutes test driving that than I did in the whole time I owned the Alpina.
The Mini also felt more urgent although I didn't go above 70 afaicr. The Alpina would certainly be quicker above level speeds but that's not really what it's about is it.
PlayFair said:
I'm surprised that the reactions on here hasn't been all going for the 330!
Fortunately that is because there are still people on here who don't lap up all the Rwd vs wrong wheel drive rubbish and know that the shorter lighter,nimble Fwd is far more fun than a longer heavier rwd car.Never owned a or driven a JCW but owned a 330ci for a few years and now have an FN2 Type R, OK it is bigger and slightly heavier than the Mini but it is a fairly focused 200bhp hot hatch
You are correct the 2 are very different, The 330 is big, heavy and very refined. My FN2 would destroy my old 330 down a b road despite the fact it had new Powerflex bushes all round so i dread to think how big the gap would be in a JCW!!
I would not recommend a 330 as a car to scratch your RWD itch, with 231bhp they are simply far too heavy and the power delivery too linear to have a playful rear end.
The engine is utterly fantastic, decent low end grunt and they really do howl above 4k rpm.
Coupe, manual and M sport is a must IMO. Very comfortable and while firm nothing like a Type R, would happily drive 4-6 hours in my old one unlike the Honda (i suspect the JCW is also very firm?)
Good at everything, great at nothing. could be a welcome break from a fairly hardcore hot hatch on the daily grind or long commutes but the fun factor would be missed
You are correct the 2 are very different, The 330 is big, heavy and very refined. My FN2 would destroy my old 330 down a b road despite the fact it had new Powerflex bushes all round so i dread to think how big the gap would be in a JCW!!
I would not recommend a 330 as a car to scratch your RWD itch, with 231bhp they are simply far too heavy and the power delivery too linear to have a playful rear end.
The engine is utterly fantastic, decent low end grunt and they really do howl above 4k rpm.
Coupe, manual and M sport is a must IMO. Very comfortable and while firm nothing like a Type R, would happily drive 4-6 hours in my old one unlike the Honda (i suspect the JCW is also very firm?)
Good at everything, great at nothing. could be a welcome break from a fairly hardcore hot hatch on the daily grind or long commutes but the fun factor would be missed
rich85uk said:
Never owned a or driven a JCW but owned a 330ci for a few years and now have an FN2 Type R, OK it is bigger and slightly heavier than the Mini but it is a fairly focused 200bhp hot hatch
You are correct the 2 are very different, The 330 is big, heavy and very refined. My FN2 would destroy my old 330 down a b road despite the fact it had new Powerflex bushes all round so i dread to think how big the gap would be in a JCW!!
I would not recommend a 330 as a car to scratch your RWD itch, with 231bhp they are simply far too heavy and the power delivery too linear to have a playful rear end.
The engine is utterly fantastic, decent low end grunt and they really do howl above 4k rpm.
Coupe, manual and M sport is a must IMO. Very comfortable and while firm nothing like a Type R, would happily drive 4-6 hours in my old one unlike the Honda (i suspect the JCW is also very firm?)
Good at everything, great at nothing. could be a welcome break from a fairly hardcore hot hatch on the daily grind or long commutes but the fun factor would be missed
Interesting that, as the type r was another car i was debating buying, but the lack of torque (on paper) put me off - although supposed to be a great drive.You are correct the 2 are very different, The 330 is big, heavy and very refined. My FN2 would destroy my old 330 down a b road despite the fact it had new Powerflex bushes all round so i dread to think how big the gap would be in a JCW!!
I would not recommend a 330 as a car to scratch your RWD itch, with 231bhp they are simply far too heavy and the power delivery too linear to have a playful rear end.
The engine is utterly fantastic, decent low end grunt and they really do howl above 4k rpm.
Coupe, manual and M sport is a must IMO. Very comfortable and while firm nothing like a Type R, would happily drive 4-6 hours in my old one unlike the Honda (i suspect the JCW is also very firm?)
Good at everything, great at nothing. could be a welcome break from a fairly hardcore hot hatch on the daily grind or long commutes but the fun factor would be missed
Ill give it time for the JCW to grow on me i hope.
PlayFair said:
Hi,
I understand these are two completely different cars but hear me out here.
I wanted something 'fun' and cheap - so I went bought a 05 Mini Cooper S R53 JCW 210bhp version last week. I've put it in the garage and doing the usual bits atm as its going to be a weekend blast occasional track car.
However...
Before I start buying coilovers / brakes / tyres etc, Ive suddenly got an urge for RWD. So started looking around.
Previously ive owned several 350z but I need 4 seats. - So looking at the E46 330. 231bhp, RWD, NA
-
Has anyone owned both? / what would you think is more fun? / with a limited budget what would you go for?
R53 or 330i?
Both would be on coils, decent rubber and uprated brakes.
Cheers
Hi there, I owned a 55 plate Cooper S from new ( Sept 1st 2005 delivery ) - usual stuff on and the LSD option. Alongside it for the 10 years I owned it I had as a bigger load lugger/everyday car, an E46 330i ( 1 year concurrent ), an E36 328i ( 7 years concurrent ) and then an E46 325ti ( owned from 2013 to date ).I understand these are two completely different cars but hear me out here.
I wanted something 'fun' and cheap - so I went bought a 05 Mini Cooper S R53 JCW 210bhp version last week. I've put it in the garage and doing the usual bits atm as its going to be a weekend blast occasional track car.
However...
Before I start buying coilovers / brakes / tyres etc, Ive suddenly got an urge for RWD. So started looking around.
Previously ive owned several 350z but I need 4 seats. - So looking at the E46 330. 231bhp, RWD, NA
-
Has anyone owned both? / what would you think is more fun? / with a limited budget what would you go for?
R53 or 330i?
Both would be on coils, decent rubber and uprated brakes.
Cheers
I'll say now I've not driven a Works - I did have the JCW airbox on my 'S' with the electric flap but that was as close as I got so my 'S' was pretty much standard power.
It's hard to quantify/qualify how much fun different people will have in different cars as everyone's view/opinion is slighlty different imo but I had more fun drives in my Cooper S than the 330i and 328i on reflection. If it had been roomier I'd have liked to have taken it on hols to Italy but wasn't quite enough space for us all with 2 young lads ( and not wanting to fit a roofbox that would have entailed drilling the roof ). My 330 was pretty standard however, my 328i was quite 'modded ( Z3 rack, X-brace, LSD, ARBs, more 'aggressive' geo ).
I find my 325ti has more 'hot hatchness' about it than the other BMs and' along with the short overhangs and shorter gearing, noise from the airbox and exhaust ( plus the diff I added ), so I found I had more fun drives in it than the Mini - Chris Harris said similar about the Compact too comapred to the rest of the E46 range.
I can't speak for a Cooper Works - they look and sound a thrilling little car, sometimes it's just little nuances of a car that engage you, a few great moments that sway your opinion.
Get a drive in a 330i and perhaps a 130i as well or similar and see what you think. I really enjoyed my Cooper S, improved a lot after ditching the runflats - was a great little hot hatch with a bit of the 205 1.9 about it. I had a long test drive in a later turbo Cooper S but it never quite captivated me in the same way, was more refined, a bit faster and from what I've heard, a lot better on fuel.
Edited by s m on Friday 19th May 08:27
PlayFair said:
I would be looking to upgrade as the suspension is 12 years old and brakes for extra stopping power.
I'm surprised that the reactions on here hasn't been all going for the 330!
Just curious as no one else has really picked up on it. But you are saying track use, blasts and a 4 seater.....I'm surprised that the reactions on here hasn't been all going for the 330!
So I guess the question is how much of either requirement?
And when you say 'track' what sort of track use? Are we just talking track days or something else?
And the things you are saying you'd like to do to the vehicles. Well I wonder if something more dedicated for track use would be better and a road going 4 seater for other use. I'm sure the cost not buying all these modifications would go a long way to do this.
As for the comparison. One of my best friends recently went from an e46 323i to an early R53 Cooper S with the JCW package.
Neither used on track, the BMW was certainly the more hooligan of the two. If you want to wheelspin it out of junctions or get it a bit sideways. It also sounded better. But IMO going for a 'drive' it is less fun. Bigger, heavier, less nimble, less sense of occasion.
The MINI is a riot all of the time. But the ride is firm, no the ride is bumpy and rear seat space is quite limited. For a longer journey or for anyone in the back, then the BMW is probably the nicer vehicle.
As for track use, I suspect the MINI would be the easier to deploy on track. Not saying it's really any easier to drive on the limit, but arguably easier to get closer to the limits. And likely to be easier going on tyres, brakes and other bits.
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