Does it have to be so hard to buy a car?

[mr_spock]

This may be a whinge. Sorry about that.

I'd been into my local Volvo dealer a couple of weeks ago to have a quick look at a V90. I explained to the sales guy that I wanted to check out the seats (I have some back/leg issues) then come back in a couple of weeks for a test drive and to work out a deal. I went back today, had a test, liked the car, and wanted some numbers.

It took over 20 minutes for him to even be able to start to work out the car build spec due to their awful sales system, then another 20 minutes while his manager worked out a deal, then 20 minutes while the manager valued my part-ex (sales guy did a walk-around to assess scratches etc). He's fairly new there so I can believe the need to get approval.

Then the deal they put together didn't include the options I wanted, or confirm the colour of the interior. I'd already seen him sneakily add paint protection, tyre insurance and some other guff without asking me (and weren't shown on the quote). I had run out of time and patience by then. We'd spent more time sitting there on our own than driving the car.

Then he said it would be over 3 months to get a car, even though had already told him I needed one soon as my mileage has increased substantially, and would take a deal on a stock car or even a nearly-new, could be PCP, PCH, purchase with finance, I don't care as long as the numbers work. I don't care about the colour as long as it's not black or beige. I'm also not shopping around, his PCH numbers are close enough to the online ones that the ease of a deal makes up the difference.

He's promised to email me on Monday. I can see myself in a Skoda Superb or Passat at this rate, unless I reallocate some cash and go for a Tesla (higher price, but almost zero fuel cost, works out about £100 a month more than the Volvo).

TL;DR - Helpful sales guy, but Volvo seem to make it hard for them to sell a car.

[anonymous-user]

if you like the car then probably better to try a broker let them do all the leg work. Broadspeed show about a 13% discount of list off the bat.

[Mexman]

Welcome to the world of current new car sales.
Absolutely bewildering array of specs, options,that even Einstein would struggle to work out and configure together.
A bewildering choice of financing options all covered by strict , confusing FCA compliancy that is law, and has to ticked off one by one in an excerise to protect the dealer from mis-selling, and you , the punter from suing everybody under the sun.
Coupled with a manufacture computer DMS system to order and configure the car along with totally obscure manufacture lead times.

[whoami]

mr_spock said:

TL;DR - Helpful sales guy, but Volvo seem to make it hard for them to sell a car.

It must be the local dealer's poor systems rather than Volvo.

I ordered an S90 a couple of weeks ago.

Very smooth, painless process.

Long'ish lead time as factory order and all S/V90's now built in China.

[mr_spock]

Oh yes, it's the dealer system I'm sure. On a PCH there's no price negotiation, so the list doesn't matter. However, he could probably have upsold me into one of the many XC90s on the forecourt, or the XC60s even. No attempt at all. He asked me what colour I wanted, I said I didn't care as long as I could get the light interior. No chance - I had to pick one colour at a time for him to go to his manager, quote, then come back to me to choose another colour until we found one that could come with the interior. Utterly dumb system.

The first question was not "what options" or "what colour" but my date of birth!

I got a quote from Skoda in 10 mins, although again the sales guy couldn't figure out the options, I had to get on the web site on my phone to find them.

[whoami]

mr_spock said:

Oh yes, it's the dealer system I'm sure. On a PCH there's no price negotiation, so the list doesn't matter. However, he could probably have upsold me into one of the many XC90s on the forecourt, or the XC60s even. No attempt at all. He asked me what colour I wanted, I said I didn't care as long as I could get the light interior. No chance - I had to pick one colour at a time for him to go to his manager, quote, then come back to me to choose another colour until we found one that could come with the interior. Utterly dumb system.

The first question was not "what options" or "what colour" but my date of birth!

I got a quote from Skoda in 10 mins, although again the sales guy couldn't figure out the options, I had to get on the web site on my phone to find them.

There was plenty of negotiating on my deal.

The rest of your experience sounds like a combination of terrible systems and an inept salesman.

[mr_spock]

Interesting - on the "lease" thread it seems that the price of the lease isn't related to the list price or any negotiated discounts. It sounds like an offer, take it or leave it. When I finally find a car in stock, I'll have a go.

[whoami]

mr_spock said:

Interesting - on the "lease" thread it seems that the price of the lease isn't related to the list price or any negotiated discounts. It sounds like an offer, take it or leave it. When I finally find a car in stock, I'll have a go.

Yeah, the salesman initially told me that the prices he quoted were the best he could do.

It didn't really take that much negotiating to get a pretty good reduction on these.

It was all very friendly and was actually one of the more pleasant car buying experiences I've had.

[TooMany2cvs]

mr_spock said:

He asked me what colour I wanted, I said I didn't care as long as I could get the light interior. No chance - I had to pick one colour at a time for him to go to his manager, quote, then come back to me to choose another colour until we found one that could come with the interior. Utterly dumb system.

Wouldn't five minutes on Volvo's website have been time well spent?
http://www.volvocars.com/uk/buy/shop/car-configura...

(And who at Volvo UK decided "Momentum" was a good name for a trim level...?)

[loskie]

Spock; 9 pages of nearly new ones on Autotrader or something like Carwow is what you need.

[daemon]

TooMany2cvs said:

(And who at Volvo UK decided "Momentum" was a good name for a trim level...?)

And "Power Pulse"

[mr_spock]

PCP deals on used aren’t good for me. No PCH on those either. I’ve found ones in stock on another lease site, but no luck with the right options - I’m not keen on the standard seats so want the cushion extension option or the higher spec which is very pricey. Comparing a Volvo lease with a Tesla PCP over 4 years, given the fuel savings the Tesla is 7K more over that time. Which is 145 a month. Might be worth it to remove the worrry about my fuel bills.

[Defconluke]

So you want what is probably a factory order to get your exact specification, a good deal which will cut in to their margins and for that factory order to be pushed as far forward in the queue as possible because your circumstances have changed at short notice?

If you want the higher spec then they could try to find one in stock but you'll moan about it being pricey and if the extended seats are not a common option - you yourself say "I’ve found ones in stock on another lease site, but no luck with the right options" - there may well be limited options in their dealer network with them specified along with the light interior.

If they are checking every car's spec individually because the seats are not a filterable criteria then narrowing it down to a colour option each time prevents you from rejecting one they might find in stock due to it being the wrong colour (because despite some people saying colour isn't important they still don't want a brown car - or black/beige as you say in your first post).

If you spent that long there on just the V90 without any realistic deal in sight, do they want to risk having you there for even longer while they wait for you to test the XC60 & XC90 and potentially waste another few hours without getting you to sign on the dotted line?

Yes, it could have been speeded up with a better system in place but it also sounds like the sales manager is trying to keep the newbie salesman on a short leash.

[mr_spock]

Lots of judgements there, but I'll play along.

Defconluke said:

So you want what is probably a factory order to get your exact specification, a good deal which will cut in to their margins and for that factory order to be pushed as far forward in the queue as possible because your circumstances have changed at short notice?

Nope. On a lease I'm expecting the price to be directly related to the vehicle list price and interest rate, with any options being fully amortised over the term of the lease. I was happy with the dealer's price and didn't attempt to negotiate. It was pretty close to the online lease companies anyway. My circumstances didn't change, at no point until the last moment did the dealer say they didn't have any stock. It turned out since that another branch has 4 in stock, he didn't even check.

Defconluke said:

If you want the higher spec then they could try to find one in stock but you'll moan about it being pricey and if the extended seats are not a common option - you yourself say "I’ve found ones in stock on another lease site, but no luck with the right options" - there may well be limited options in their dealer network with them specified along with the light interior.

The extended seats are standard on all other specs. The R-design was the one I test drove, I'd be happy with that. I've found in stock R-design cars on line for similar money, the list price is only slightly higher than the Momentum anyway. Had he known his cars, he could have told me that the R-design had the extending cushions, the paper brochure would have told him/me but he kept taking it away with him so I couldn't look. I told him I'd prefer the light interior, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

Defconluke said:

If they are checking every car's spec individually because the seats are not a filterable criteria then narrowing it down to a colour option each time prevents you from rejecting one they might find in stock due to it being the wrong colour (because despite some people saying colour isn't important they still don't want a brown car - or black/beige as you say in your first post).

If they are, that's sad. Since he didn't offer me a built-to-order car with that option (it's one of the "packs") he clearly didn't listen to what I wanted anyway. I really don't care about the colour other than not black or the gold one. There are maybe 10 silver/grey options, so I'm not THAT fussy.

Defconluke said:

If you spent that long there on just the V90 without any realistic deal in sight, do they want to risk having you there for even longer while they wait for you to test the XC60 & XC90 and potentially waste another few hours without getting you to sign on the dotted line?

He wanted me to sign on that day. If he'd have offered me an R-design in stock in any colour (no R-design in gold) at the right money I'd probably have taken it. The point I was making was that he didn't have one in stock in that branch, and didn't even attempt to cross-sell to another model. He had me sit in an XC90 to try the Momentum seats anyway so it wouldn't have been that hard. I arrived in a Range Rover so hardly unfamiliar with large roly-poly 4x4s

Defconluke said:

Yes, it could have been speeded up with a better system in place but it also sounds like the sales manager is trying to keep the newbie salesman on a short leash.

Maybe if the manager had come out to see me and my daughter without buggering us about for an hour it would have helped. I'm still open to a deal from them, but browsing this evening I've found one in stock, for less money amortised but a larger deposit. So now he'll need to get competitive. Although I'll need to sell my current car privately.

[Nickbrapp]

Use carwow, dealers may have new in stock with what you want or be able to quote you better on factory orders

When I looked at a s3 and a c class coupe, dealers where offering between 1-5k off difference between them

[Defconluke]

I've only made judgements based on what you had posted.

mr_spock said:

Then he said it would be over 3 months to get a car, even though had already told him I needed one soon as my mileage has increased substantially

That sounded to me like your circumstances (the mileage you were doing) had changed at short notice.

mr_spock said:

or the higher spec which is very pricey.

Is at odds with what you rationalised later

mr_spock said:

the list price is only slightly higher than the Momentum anyway

Likewise

mr_spock said:

I said I didn't care as long as I could get the light interior.

and

mr_spock said:

I told him I'd prefer the light interior, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

Unsurprising that they were unable to help you in the dealership with the mixed way your needs for the new car's spec have come across in this thread.
Anyway, glad to hear you finally made up your mind and found a car to spec that suits. If you do go back to the dealership maybe you could take the details of that car in and ask them if they have anything that matches it?

[mr_spock]

I'd been in previously, this wasn't the first visit, and I've summarised a number of conversations I had over 90 mins at least. When I went in three weeks before I explained I was moving house and therefore my mileage was going to increase which is why I wanted a new car. This was not a surprise to him. I'd PREFER the light interior but don't HAVE to have it. It turns out the seat I want is on an option pack, but he may have had the higher spec car on some special deal or something which would be OK. His chance to upsell - "you can get the Inscription for only £30 a month more, how does that sound?".

I was very very very clear as to what I wanted. A V90, D4, extending seat cushions, would PREFER not black or gold, would PREFER the light interior, but need it soon. The price he came back with didn't have the one thing I HAD to have, the seat. Wasted an hour of my time with the "my manager" thing, and BTW still hasn't called me like he said he would. His quote system insists on knowing the exact spec, then giving a build time. Tesla's, to take an example, will show cars in stock in a nearly equivalent spec to the configurator.

And another branch nearer my new house has a close match to my needs in stock. He didn't even look. If he called me up now with a close-enough car at a close-enough price I'll buy it over the phone.

Defconluke said:

I've only made judgements based on what you had posted.

mr_spock said:

Then he said it would be over 3 months to get a car, even though had already told him I needed one soon as my mileage has increased substantially

That sounded to me like your circumstances (the mileage you were doing) had changed at short notice.

mr_spock said:

or the higher spec which is very pricey.

Is at odds with what you rationalised later

mr_spock said:

the list price is only slightly higher than the Momentum anyway

Likewise

mr_spock said:

I said I didn't care as long as I could get the light interior.

and

mr_spock said:

I told him I'd prefer the light interior, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

Unsurprising that they were unable to help you in the dealership with the mixed way your needs for the new car's spec have come across in this thread.
Anyway, glad to hear you finally made up your mind and found a car to spec that suits. If you do go back to the dealership maybe you could take the details of that car in and ask them if they have anything that matches it?

[mr_spock]

Just to follow up on this...

Having found an online lease deal, and called the dealer, I thought I'd give the original one a chance as they'd expended the effort on the test drive etc. I spoke to the sales manager, who thanked me repeatedly for giving them feedback as they don't normally get any. Another sales guy called me within the hour, found a car that met my needs, discussed some alternative suggestions and matched the price.

I'm still trying to decide what to do - slight change in circumstances in the last couple of days - but well done to them, hope the original guy gets some more training.

[The Mad Monk]

mr_spock said:

Then he said it would be over 3 months to get a car, even though had already told him I needed one soon as my mileage has increased substantially, and would take a deal on a stock car or even a nearly-new, could be PCP, PCH, purchase with finance, I don't care as long as the numbers work. I don't care about the colour as long as it's not black or beige. I'm also not shopping around, his PCH numbers are close enough to the online ones that the ease of a deal makes up the difference.

What's wrong with one of these 100 to choose from, new, or nearly new? (no, that isn't my address)

http://tinyurl.com/ycrqg8ca

[mr_spock]

The Mad Monk said:

mr_spock said:

Then he said it would be over 3 months to get a car, even though had already told him I needed one soon as my mileage has increased substantially, and would take a deal on a stock car or even a nearly-new, could be PCP, PCH, purchase with finance, I don't care as long as the numbers work. I don't care about the colour as long as it's not black or beige. I'm also not shopping around, his PCH numbers are close enough to the online ones that the ease of a deal makes up the difference.

What's wrong with one of these 100 to choose from, new, or nearly new? (no, that isn't my address)

http://tinyurl.com/ycrqg8ca

I can't lease one of those, nor PCP, and finance with a bank loan would cost more over anywhere from 2-4 years which is as long as I'd keep it. With a lease I get RFL included, it only needs one service and I don't have to tie up cash.

I do hope I haven't sparked a "lease/PCP/buy" thread