Looking for a sporty yet practical Estate or Saloon

[cib24]

Hello,

I'm struggling a bit here given the breadth of choice and due to the fact that I have not had to consider a sensible car since I was back in university. The short of it is that I live in London with my wife so we do not need a car for Monday to Friday, and the one car I have currently is a Mazda RX-7 purely as a toy. I normally use it for track days, Santa Pod, club events, car shows, stuff like that, but we have used it on the occasional trip to the store or for a 3-4 day getaway in Cornwall, Snowdonia, the Lake District, etc. However, it's not ideal because it is cramped inside and rides pretty harsh, and we are finding that ever since we moved into our new home this past summer which is a bit further away from the tube, bus, the shops, etc. that we would really like to have some sort of 2nd car that is very practical but not completely boring to help us out on the weekends and use as a primary means of transportation outside of the City.

Budget is £4,500 but naturally I will be targeting as low of a price as possible for a car in good mechanical, exterior and interior condition.

Speaking to the wife she wants something decently sized so no little hatchbacks or coupes (have to get old parents in the back quite often). I'm also trying to stay away from any idea about a SUV (I just don't like them).

The car would be used for the following types of things:

Going shopping
B&Q
Ikea type stuff
The gym
Airport transportation (our families visit a lot and fly into Gatwick or Stansted so a car that can seat people comfortably in the back and still swallow large suitcases is preferred)
Weekend hiking and sightseeing trips (we like to do this quite frequently around the country)
1 or 2 trips to continental Europe next year

As you may guess by the type of car I own, I don't like cars that are too common and I would like something that is not as dull as watching paint dry to drive or look at. It doesn't have to rip my face off with acceleration (although that would be cool) or get great mpg (30-35 on the motorway is fine), but it should be an Auto (for the wife) and be quite reliable and not cost a fortune to fix if something goes wrong that isn't out of the ordinary for the particular car. And this car will be used a lot in horrendous London traffic and probably only stretch its legs 40% of the time.

I have looked at a lot of interesting and uninteresting stuff. Some things that have caught my eye are the Subaru Legacy 3.0R (Regular or Spec-B), BMW 325i Touring (E90), Volvol S60R or V70R (not sure about reliability on these), Jaguar XJ or XJR depending on the year, Audi A6 Avant 3.0 TDI (maybe? not a huge fan of Diesels and how unrefined they are at idle and low speeds but seems like a good one in the range).

I am going to guess that most of these are not ideal for one reason or another. What would you recommend? Are all of these a bad idea if living in London? Should I really just be buying a Honda Accord 2.4 Touring (so ugly though so maybe the saloon instead)?. I thought about a hybrid but they are not really cheap enough yet to get into something decent.

Really keen on gathering suggestions so that I can focus on a specific list of cars and do a bit of research on each.

Edited by cib24 on Monday 27th November 11:29

[Vaud]

The A6 3.0tdi is a nice car; I had one for 90k miles and it eats continents - several 800 mile stints in one day without issue. Not sporty but nippy enough.

Alternatively the S80 in 2.5 SE T form?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Or V50 2.5 T5?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[Plate spinner]

In your position I'd probably be tempted by a decent e39 BMW 5 series.

This one is half your budget - keeps some money in your pocket / spend out on refreshing some bits and bobs:

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

[cib24]

Plate spinner said:

In your position I'd probably be tempted by a decent e39 BMW 5 series.

This one is half your budget - keeps some money in your pocket / spend out on refreshing some bits and bobs:

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

That is a good shout but some people that I have spoken to about this topic of an interesting practical car said avoid the E39 as they are all tired nowadays (suspension bushings on them are usually toast, rust, and some mechanical issues) and cost a lot to upkeep or make right again.

Given the price of that though I will take a look and do some research.

Edited by cib24 on Monday 27th November 11:55

[Equus]

I recently bought a second car, with similar criteria (well, dog wagon, basically).

I ended up with a Saab 9-5 Aero Estate. I spent less than 1/3rd your budget, mind you, for a car in very good condition.

[jagnet]

Equus said:

I ended up with a Saab 9-5 Aero Estate. I spent less than 1/3rd your budget, mind you, for a car in very good condition.

It's hard to argue against the value for money that a 9-5 Aero represents. There'd be plenty left in the OP's budget for some new suspension parts and engine tweaking if desired.

[Plate spinner]

cib24 said:

Plate spinner said:

In your position I'd probably be tempted by a decent e39 BMW 5 series.

This one is half your budget - keeps some money in your pocket / spend out on refreshing some bits and bobs:

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

That is a good shout but some people that I have spoken to about this topic of an interesting practical car said avoid the E39 as they are all tired nowadays (suspension bushings on them are usually toast, rust, and some mechanical issues) and cost a lot to upkeep or make right again.

Given the price of that though I will take a look and do some research.

Edited by cib24 on Monday 27th November 11:55

I'd disagree - not all will be a basket case. Some will though, it will all be how much love the previous owner has shown and how much you want to spend getting it nice.

Rust? Yes, I'd avoid, it's a ballache and once it's set in, then it's set it - IME you are only going to slow it down.
Suspension bushings? The youngest cars are 14 years old and they are quite heavy, so bank on some replacements bits here and there. Personally I see things like this as consumables, they weren't designed to last for ever. Once sorted, you have many trouble free years ahead.
Mechanical issues? Well the cooling system can be a weak point, but again, just replace it.

I don't think these cars are any more or less prone to age - anything at 15 years old will need some love and attention. But there are plenty of good garages that know the cars well and an industry of pattern parts to avoid you stepping foot into a main dealership.

At £2k purchased and £1k spent, you could have a really nice car for £3k ready to put in a decent shift over the next few years. But all used cars are a risk, you can never really tell.

Buy off someone who paid money / invested time to keep on top of maintenance and you could get a bargain.
Buy off someone who ran it on a shoe string, limping from MOT to MOT and yes, you'll get an unreliable / badly driving / bills looming car - but you should be able to qualify all of that when buying.

Or just play bangernomics with it - spend £2k, drive it gently and see how long it will keep going with basic DIY oil / filter changes. When it expires, rinse and repeat.

[cib24]

jagnet said:

It's hard to argue against the value for money that a 9-5 Aero represents. There'd be plenty left in the OP's budget for some new suspension parts and engine tweaking if desired.

I have looked at those but my god they are so ugly to me and the interior seems so drab.

Are they reasonably reliable and I assume since it is a GM car that if things go wrong you can find replacement parts off of Vauxhals?

Are they any interesting to drive?

[cib24]

Vaud said:

The A6 3.0tdi is a nice car; I had one for 90k miles and it eats continents - several 800 mile stints in one day without issue. Not sporty but nippy enough.

Alternatively the S80 in 2.5 SE T form?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Or V50 2.5 T5?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Can you tell me more about the 3.0 TDI and what to look out for? Injectors I have read about. How agricultural is the idle and low speed driving? Do these have a DPF to worry about or are they void of the common pitfalls of more modern diesels in terms of DPFs and EGRs and stuff like that?

The V50 T5 looks quite good but is it any good to drive?

[warcalf]

I have minimal input and was mainly looking at your topic because I'm in the market for something similar.

However, with regards to V70R's, I was all for one until I came across this some of the forums on here... http://forums.swedespeed.com


A suggestion that meets your criteria that you haven't spoken of in your considerations... Skoda Octavia VRS? Yes it is FWD, but 200bhp in a petrol with good fuel economy, I know I'm considering one!

Also, if it takes your fancy, you can do loads to a VRS to make it drive fantastically!

http://www.evo.co.uk/skoda/octavia-vrs/18072/shoul...

Edited by warcalf on Monday 27th November 12:36

[cib24]

I guess I have always discounted anything VW or Skoda as I find them kind of boring. I had a good friend with an 06 Golf GTI with that 2.0 turbo motor and it was horribly uninteresting and not did not feel as quick as it should have with c.200hp on tap. That is not to say that one of these might not fit the bill as I haven't ever driven a Skoda!

To be fair the Audi A6 Avant is boring too but then I heard you could remap them to 500 lb/ft and then it seemed interesting.

I saw this S60R and got excited but then started reading about them. Angle gears seem to be the least of the car's worries and everything seems to cost over £1,000 to replace or service.

Black Volvo S60R


That Subaru Legacy isn't interesting to drive? I'm reading that the H6 3.0L is pretty bullet proof so long as you change the oil.

[Equus]

cib24 said:

Are they any interesting to drive?

Yes. Although not necessarily in a good way.

They're pretty old-skool front wheel drive, which means that if you deploy all of the 260bhp on less than perfect tarmac, you need to be paying attention - they can be a bit unruly.

Of course, you've got a basic contradiction in your requirements, if you want something interesting to drive, but require an automatic gearbox.

[Vaud]

cib24 said:

Can you tell me more about the 3.0 TDI and what to look out for? Injectors I have read about. How agricultural is the idle and low speed driving? Do these have a DPF to worry about or are they void of the common pitfalls of more modern diesels in terms of DPFs and EGRs and stuff like that?

The V50 T5 looks quite good but is it any good to drive?

I haven't driven the T5 much, but it was ok in a test drive, quite quick though I found it a bit firm.

On the Audi it will depend on the year - DPFs came in later. I had a 55 plate and it honestly had no issues aside from one wheel bearing. I used Audi servicing and then a local Indy.

It is a little noisy on start like all diesels but to be honest the cabin is well sound proofed, and the v6 is a lot smoother than the 4 cylinder diesel versions.

There are a few A6 4.2 petrols around but they are a rare spec, a bit like the Volvo S80 v8.

[warcalf]

cib24 said:

I guess I have always discounted anything VW or Skoda as I find them kind of boring. I had a good friend with an 06 Golf GTI with that 2.0 turbo motor and it was horribly uninteresting and not did not feel as quick as it should have with c.200hp on tap. That is not to say that one of these might not fit the bill as I haven't ever driven a Skoda!

To be fair the Audi A6 Avant is boring too but then I heard you could remap them to 500 lb/ft and then it seemed interesting.

I saw this S60R and got excited but then started reading about them. Angle gears seem to be the least of the car's worries and everything seems to cost over £1,000 to replace or service.

Black Volvo S60R


That Subaru Legacy isn't interesting to drive? I'm reading that the H6 3.0L is pretty bullet proof so long as you change the oil.

I can't say I've ever considered Skoda as appealing either tbh.

My current car is an E85 Z4, but I've just had an ECU related issue which basically leaves the ABS, Traction Control and Hand brake light on in amber. As I don't fancy a £500 or so repair of it, I'm just going to sell it in March. Cars with appeal that aren't common on boring (which that Z4 is to me) aren't always what they seem.
The issue that it's got has made me want something understated tbh.

I'd love a V70R, insurance was nothing for me when I got a quote as well. But I'd be terrified of something going wrong! Having said that, an '05 car like one of those, if it's still on the road today, surely any issues that are typical of the model would have occured already and been repaired?

[Scootersp]

Nissan Stagea fits the 'out there' criteria.

IS300 perhaps, but they have a small boot

[Equus]

warcalf said:

I can't say I've ever considered Skoda as appealing either tbh.

I had an Octavia vRS Estate as a company car, and I'd say it was dull, but worthy. Brisk enough, bulletproof over the 100K+ that I ran it, and very practical, but not nearly as interesting to drive even as the Saab Aero. The Aero is more practical, too (much bigger boot, more comfortable)

If the OP wants an automatic, though, he'd be looking at the DSG box on the Skoda, which is an acquired taste and offers a high bork factor at that budget level.

[jagnet]

cib24 said:

I have looked at those but my god they are so ugly to me and the interior seems so drab.

Are they reasonably reliable and I assume since it is a GM car that if things go wrong you can find replacement parts off of Vauxhals?

Are they any interesting to drive?

To my eye they still look good, but then I really really dislike the current trends of aggressive front ends, gaping vents and high bonnet lines.

Speaking for my Saab, it's been very reliable. In 4 years / 40k miles the only broken things it's needed have been a thermostat, ball joint, battery and radiator.

No problem getting hold of parts. Plenty of Saab dealers still around as well as online vendors. Orio (the official Saab parts business) also price their spares very sensibly, so often there's little to be gained by buying aftermarket parts. I wish Audi would take note. As an example, a new top and bottom radiator hoses from the main dealer are under £20 for the pair inc VAT. New OE front discs are about £60 for the pair. A set of genuine Saab front pads are under £50. Etc etc

As for driving them, "slow in, fast out" is the best approach to corners.

[cib24]

Scootersp said:

Nissan Stagea fits the 'out there' criteria.

IS300 perhaps, but they have a small boot

Stagea is an interesting choice but there isn't a nice one available right now within my budget.

I looked at the IS300 but it is terribly dated in my eyes. Maybe a GS300 or LS?

[cib24]

jagnet said:

To my eye they still look good, but then I really really dislike the current trends of aggressive front ends, gaping vents and high bonnet lines.

Speaking for my Saab, it's been very reliable. In 4 years / 40k miles the only broken things it's needed have been a thermostat, ball joint, battery and radiator.

No problem getting hold of parts. Plenty of Saab dealers still around as well as online vendors. Orio (the official Saab parts business) also price their spares very sensibly, so often there's little to be gained by buying aftermarket parts. I wish Audi would take note. As an example, a new top and bottom radiator hoses from the main dealer are under £20 for the pair inc VAT. New OE front discs are about £60 for the pair. A set of genuine Saab front pads are under £50. Etc etc

As for driving them, "slow in, fast out" is the best approach to corners.

Hmm...maybe the saloon isn't so bad. I will have to actually sit in one and drive one to really decide if it was for me or not. Sounds like it is worth a further look.

Still not seeing much downside to a Subaru Legacy 3.0R Spec-B either except for high road tax.

[cib24]

Anything to look out for with a 325i and an automatic gearbox with over 100,000 miles?