What's the best "everyday" sports car for less than 10k?

[white_goodman]

Over the last 15 years, I've tended to own a mixture of white goods cars and small, light, FWD, NA hot hatches, the current one being an R56 MINI Cooper. For my budget, the small hot hatches have been good fun at legal speeds and offered relatively low running costs, being light on consumables such as brakes, suspension and tyres whilst being reasonable on fuel. I'm sure that I would be perfectly happy with another (Abarth 500, Fiesta ST, Golf GTI) or whatever but maybe it's time to try something different and own something a bit faster and more special whilst I can still afford it and we're not all driving Teslas! So a proper sports car with RWD, manual gearbox and a special engine seems just the ticket.

My main concern is running costs and reliability. Having owned an Impreza WRX for 2.5 years, I'm no stranger to low 20s mpg and I'm OK with that but it was very reliable only throwing up one major bill in my ownership which was all consumables (brake discs and pads and exhaust), so not too stressful an ownership experience.

Ones that I have considered for my nominal 10k budget are:

E46 M3 Coupe manual

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

For my generation, this is probably the definitive M3. I like the (Imola?) red colour of this example and it's a facelift model too. It's a bit more interesting than the usual black/silver/grey M3s but it is Cat D and although my E30 325i was extremely reliable, I've heard that these can suffer with their far share of expensive old car issues (rear subframe, VANOS etc). Some may not call this a proper sports car but by all accounts it's a more rounded package and cheaper than a Z4/Z4M Coupe and it's the only car that I have considered that I could take the whole family out in. Not a biggie, as I could count the number of times that I've taken the kids out in the MINI on one hand but a benefit nonetheless.

Porsche Boxster/Boxster S

In an ideal world, my dream Porsche would be a 981 Boxster/Cayman S but my budget could get me into a very nice example of a 986 Boxster S

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

or possibly an early non S 987 Boxster?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

I actually think that I prefer the look inside and out of the 986, it has more of its own identity rather than just looking a bit like a 911 but the 987 may well be a better and more reliable car? I hear that Porsches of this era are not quite as bulletproof mechanically as their predecessors but other than that, great cars and I do enjoy a convertible.

Nissan 350Z Coupe

I drove a few friend's V8 muscle cars when we lived in Canada and this seems like a Japanese interpretation of a muscle car with hopefully Japanese reliability? I've always liked the look of these since they came out. Yes, the interior looks a little cheap and of late, Nissan reliability hasn't been so great but from my understanding, these seem to be quite strong mechanically and although, an early 370Z might just fall into budget, for some reason, I just never liked the 370Z as much as the 350Z.

This white one is right at the top end of my budget but I like the unusual colour scheme.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

I also like this launch colour but with the black not the orange interior.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

I understand that the engine got a few tweaks throughout the car's life and some say that the earlier engines were a bit sweeter?

Honda S2000

I really wanted a Civic/Integra Type R around 10 years ago but the insurance was crippling. What I really wanted was an S2000 but they were still a bit new and expensive at the time, so I ended up in an NB MX5 instead. Awesome engine and I expect the most reliable car here. I prefer the looks of the facelift (AP2?) cars and hear that they handle a bit better but I also hear that they dropped the redline from 9k to 8k on these cars and that insane engine is a big part of the appeal of the car. It's down on power and cylinders compared to the other cars here but I can make an exception for a high-revving Honda VTEC! This one looks pretty decent for the money. I'm guessing this is an AP2 car?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

So in terms of fun, livability on a daily basis and a relatively stress-free ownership experience where I'm not constantly worrying about the next four figure repair bill, which of these four cars would be the best option or are there any better alternatives that I have overlooked for the nominal 10k budget?

Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 30th November 04:57

[Actus Reus]

Boxster S for me - yes, some had chocolate engines, but such an excellent sports car in every other respect. I absolutely loved mine and would have another.

[grumbledoak]

I would only really count the Boxster and the S2000 as sports cars. Given your budget and list of worries I think you'd be better off back in another MX5.

If forced to pick from that list, I'd take the Boxster.

[designforlife]

If you can compromise on RWD, then a DC2 or DC5 would be a good shout.

[DRVR]

white_goodman said:

I'm sure that I would be perfectly happy with another (Abarth 500, Fiesta ST, Golf GTI) or whatever but maybe it's time to try something different and own something a bit faster and more special whilst I can still afford it and we're not all driving Teslas!

Are people realistically concerned about that? I don't think I will see that hard turn in my life time and I'm in my 40's. Sure, electrical cars will become more and more practical, affordable and then popular. But combustion engine cars won't just disappear and I doubt governments will make them illegal to own and drive. If they do make them illegal to produce they can't just tell the whole world to just throw all the cars made in the last 100 years in the trash. So even if electrical dominates you can still drive a conventional car if that's what you want. Even if it won't be new.

On to your question, I'm not sure 10K can really get you a proper sports car with RWD, manual gearbox and a special engine. Not something that will be in any sort of shape that you will want. Of course this depends on your personal definition of sports car and special engine.

I already see we disagree in our definition of sports car as a M3 is not a sports car. It's a 2 door saloon/sedan/limousine depending where in the world you are .

The S2000 has an inline 4. You asked for special engine. Nothing could be more mundane and not special than an inline 4. If it was at least a boxer 4 ok. So that to me disqualifies the S2000 as well.

So you are left with the 350Z and the Porsche. If we were talking about a Cayman I would go for it without a second thought. But I'm not sure I want a convertible sports car. Unless I'm looking for a ride to cruise in summer afternoons. If I'm looking for something I want to drive a bit harder and enjoy the engine, I want a hardtop.

So from your list only the 350Z qualifies some how for me. But I would also not call it any special.

The true is to fully fulfill your list of requests you have to start at 50K. Then you can get truly special and real sports cars. There might be an exception out there which I'm not thinking of. But not on your list. So if it must be from those, I would go with the 350Z, even if it's not my type of car.

[akirk]

DRVR said:

On to your question, I'm not sure 10K can really get you a proper sports car with RWD, manual gearbox and a special engine. Not something that will be in any sort of shape that you will want. Of course this depends on your personal definition of sports car and special engine.

really?!
there are loads of sports cars you can get for 10K - but it might depend on age of car e.g.:
- 60s / 70s triumphs or MGs are obvious candidates
- MX5 / Z3 are more recent

a 3.0 litre manual RWD with LSD Z3 will set you back under £10k and that straight 6 certainly qualifies as a special engine - fantastic...

DRVR said:

I'm not sure I want a convertible sports car. Unless I'm looking for a ride to cruise in summer afternoons. If I'm looking for something I want to drive a bit harder and enjoy the engine, I want a hardtop.

the two are not exclusive - you can drive the z3 hard - I added a c. £100 strut bar to the engine bay and transformed the car - it is certainly capable of being driven to any legal level you wish, and I am sure it would cope going way beyond...

DRVR said:

The true is to fully fulfill your list of requests you have to start at 50K. Then you can get truly special and real sports cars. There might be an exception out there which I'm not thinking of. But not on your list. So if it must be from those, I would go with the 350Z, even if it's not my type of car.

£50k - what world do you live in?! The vast majority of people will never spend that on a car - yet there are loads of RW manual sports cars around for way below that in cost... If the OP is looking at an M3 he could also get an M5 for way under £50k - or an f-type - or an Aston - or...

considering that the OP has been driving other cheap cars over the years - there is no need to jump straight into a Ferrari
In that budget I would look at the Porsche - easy to find a good one under £10k and they are fab cars - I have a z3 amongst others which is also good, but the handling is not quite equivalent - though the engine makes up for it...

[Actus Reus]

DRVR said:

The S2000 has an inline 4. You asked for special engine. Nothing could be more mundane and not special than an inline 4. If it was at least a boxer 4 ok. So that to me disqualifies the S2000 as well.

One of the better inline 4's though isn't it?

[HustleRussell]

DRVR said:

The true is to fully fulfill your list of requests you have to start at 50K.

Also, in a lot of ways, the engine in the S2000 is more interesting than that in the 350z. Plus, the 350z is a GT car in my book.

Anyway, historically a significant proportion of sports cars have had 4-pot engines.

When I read the thread title I instantly thought S2000.

[DoubleD]

Does he even know what an S2000 is ha ha

[white_goodman]

Thanks for the feedback so far. It seems so far that the Porsche or Honda are the best bet. Convertibles are great but my only concern is visibility and my MX5 felt really claustrophobic with the roof up (no AC though). Regarding the Porsche, were all engines affected by issues? I'm naturally drawn to the S and having driven plenty of 300bhp+ RWD cars that weren't mine, I'm confident that I can handle the power but at the same time, I've been driving a 120bhp for the last couple of years, so I'm sure that a non-S wouldn't feel that slow! What's the better option. A late 986 or an early 987?

Any issues to look out for on the S2000? I've heard that suspension components are expensive and they are quite sensitive to setup? Is the relative lack of torque too frustrating on an everyday car?

The general consensus seems to be that a sub-10k M3 is a bit of a risky purchase. I thought that the rear subframe/VANOS issues might be sorted by now and it's easily the most practical choice but maybe not.

I'm surprised that there's not much love for the 350Z. I seem to remember honestjohn rating it above the Boxster at the time, especially for reliability.

As for the other suggestions, MX5s are great but I really want something with more power and the engines aren't really special enough. An Integra certainly has a special engine but I really want to try something RWD for a change.

[DRVR]

akirk said:

DRVR said:

On to your question, I'm not sure 10K can really get you a proper sports car with RWD, manual gearbox and a special engine. Not something that will be in any sort of shape that you will want. Of course this depends on your personal definition of sports car and special engine.

really?!
there are loads of sports cars you can get for 10K - but it might depend on age of car e.g.:
- 60s / 70s triumphs or MGs are obvious candidates
- MX5 / Z3 are more recent

MX5 doesn't have a special engine.
Neither do the old Triumphs and MGs in my opinion.
I also didn't get the impression he was after an older classic by the choices he posted.

akirk said:

a 3.0 litre manual RWD with LSD Z3 will set you back under £10k and that straight 6 certainly qualifies as a special engine - fantastic...

Yes. One of the greatest engines BMW made. Just not in a special car. Nothing nice about the Z3. Not that exciting. The MX5 is way more exciting. But not a special engine.

akirk said:

DRVR said:

I'm not sure I want a convertible sports car. Unless I'm looking for a ride to cruise in summer afternoons. If I'm looking for something I want to drive a bit harder and enjoy the engine, I want a hardtop.

the two are not exclusive - you can drive the z3 hard - I added a c. £100 strut bar to the engine bay and transformed the car - it is certainly capable of being driven to any legal level you wish, and I am sure it would cope going way beyond...

I guess you have never flipped a car or know somebody who did while driving hard around bends. You don't have to be going fast either. Just spirited driving. If it's a performance car, I want a hardtop. Cabrios are for cruising. I can only speak for myself.

akirk said:

DRVR said:

The true is to fully fulfill your list of requests you have to start at 50K. Then you can get truly special and real sports cars. There might be an exception out there which I'm not thinking of. But not on your list. So if it must be from those, I would go with the 350Z, even if it's not my type of car.

£50k - what world do you live in?! The vast majority of people will never spend that on a car - yet there are loads of RW manual sports cars around for way below that in cost... If the OP is looking at an M3 he could also get an M5 for way under £50k - or an f-type - or an Aston - or...

Please read what I said and notice I said that starting at 50K you can get truly special and real sports car. A Boxter is a real sports car but it isn't truly special. I was no longer talking about just a sport car, RWD and with a little less conventional engine. I was extrapolating the point. What I said was to truly fulfill it, as in fulfill it and more, and get a real special sports car, it will start at around 50K give or take. It's all there in my sentence structure.

Now a M3 and M5 are not sports cars. They are luxury or sport sedans. Which Aston Martin can you get with low mileage and in good condition for under 50K where you are? That DB7 thing?

OK, there is the F-type. Not really the type of special I was thinking about when I said 50K but ok. Definitely a real and good sports car. Like I also said in my post, there might be an exception out there which I was not thinking of.

akirk said:

DRVR said:

considering that the OP has been driving other cheap cars over the years - there is no need to jump straight into a Ferrari
In that budget I would look at the Porsche - easy to find a good one under £10k and they are fab cars - I have a z3 amongst others which is also good, but the handling is not quite equivalent - though the engine makes up for it...

Sure. If you are fine with a carbio as a performance car then yes. I said I would go for the Porsche if it wasn't an open top.

[DRVR]

Actus Reus said:

One of the better inline 4's though isn't it?

Sure. But while it may be special among 4 bangers it is not really special. I don't think any inline 4 can really be special.

[HustleRussell]

We can't be far off £10k Gt86?

[DRVR]

HustleRussell said:

Also, in a lot of ways, the engine in the S2000 is more interesting than that in the 350z. Plus, the 350z is a GT car in my book.

Anyway, historically a significant proportion of sports cars have had 4-pot engines.

When I read the thread title I instantly thought S2000.

If you are going to quote out of context then there is not much point.

[white_goodman]

DRVR said:

Are people realistically concerned about that? I don't think I will see that hard turn in my life time and I'm in my 40's. Sure, electrical cars will become more and more practical, affordable and then popular. But combustion engine cars won't just disappear and I doubt governments will make them illegal to own and drive. If they do make them illegal to produce they can't just tell the whole world to just throw all the cars made in the last 100 years in the trash. So even if electrical dominates you can still drive a conventional car if that's what you want. Even if it won't be new.

That's very true but IC cars might become prohibitively expensive and even so all these "lower-end" sports cars are already receiving downsized engines (see Boxster). It might be viable to have an IC-engined car for fun or longer trips but perhaps not so viable in your daily drive?

[white_goodman]

DRVR said:

akirk said:

DRVR said:

On to your question, I'm not sure 10K can really get you a proper sports car with RWD, manual gearbox and a special engine. Not something that will be in any sort of shape that you will want. Of course this depends on your personal definition of sports car and special engine.

really?!
there are loads of sports cars you can get for 10K - but it might depend on age of car e.g.:
- 60s / 70s triumphs or MGs are obvious candidates
- MX5 / Z3 are more recent

MX5 doesn't have a special engine.
Neither do the old Triumphs and MGs in my opinion.
I also didn't get the impression he was after an older classic by the choices he posted.

akirk said:

a 3.0 litre manual RWD with LSD Z3 will set you back under £10k and that straight 6 certainly qualifies as a special engine - fantastic...

Yes. One of the greatest engines BMW made. Just not in a special car. Nothing nice about the Z3. Not that exciting. The MX5 is way more exciting. But not a special engine.

akirk said:

DRVR said:

I'm not sure I want a convertible sports car. Unless I'm looking for a ride to cruise in summer afternoons. If I'm looking for something I want to drive a bit harder and enjoy the engine, I want a hardtop.

the two are not exclusive - you can drive the z3 hard - I added a c. £100 strut bar to the engine bay and transformed the car - it is certainly capable of being driven to any legal level you wish, and I am sure it would cope going way beyond...

I guess you have never flipped a car or know somebody who did while driving hard around bends. You don't have to be going fast either. Just spirited driving. If it's a performance car, I want a hardtop. Cabrios are for cruising. I can only speak for myself.

akirk said:

DRVR said:

The true is to fully fulfill your list of requests you have to start at 50K. Then you can get truly special and real sports cars. There might be an exception out there which I'm not thinking of. But not on your list. So if it must be from those, I would go with the 350Z, even if it's not my type of car.

£50k - what world do you live in?! The vast majority of people will never spend that on a car - yet there are loads of RW manual sports cars around for way below that in cost... If the OP is looking at an M3 he could also get an M5 for way under £50k - or an f-type - or an Aston - or...

Please read what I said and notice I said that starting at 50K you can get truly special and real sports car. A Boxter is a real sports car but it isn't truly special. I was no longer talking about just a sport car, RWD and with a little less conventional engine. I was extrapolating the point. What I said was to truly fulfill it, as in fulfill it and more, and get a real special sports car, it will start at around 50K give or take. It's all there in my sentence structure.

Now a M3 and M5 are not sports cars. They are luxury or sport sedans. Which Aston Martin can you get with low mileage and in good condition for under 50K where you are? That DB7 thing?

OK, there is the F-type. Not really the type of special I was thinking about when I said 50K but ok. Definitely a real and good sports car. Like I also said in my post, there might be an exception out there which I was not thinking of.

akirk said:

DRVR said:

considering that the OP has been driving other cheap cars over the years - there is no need to jump straight into a Ferrari
In that budget I would look at the Porsche - easy to find a good one under £10k and they are fab cars - I have a z3 amongst others which is also good, but the handling is not quite equivalent - though the engine makes up for it...

Sure. If you are fine with a carbio as a performance car then yes. I said I would go for the Porsche if it wasn't an open top.

Is the F-Type a sports car? It's pretty heavy and most are autos. My definition of a sports car includes a manual box. Very nice car but way out of my budget, so a bit irrelevant here.

[HustleRussell]

DRVR said:

HustleRussell said:

Also, in a lot of ways, the engine in the S2000 is more interesting than that in the 350z. Plus, the 350z is a GT car in my book.

Anyway, historically a significant proportion of sports cars have had 4-pot engines.

When I read the thread title I instantly thought S2000.

If you are going to quote out of context then there is not much point.

I directly quoted you?

[DRVR]

md4776 said:

DRVR said:

I already see we disagree in our definition of sports car as a M3 is not a sports car. It's a 2 door saloon/sedan/limousine depending where in the world you are .

An M3 limousine?

Like I said, it depends what part of the wold you are from. Americans don't use saloon and Brits don't really use sedan. In the German speaking world a limousine is a sedan/saloon. Sorry if I was trying to be flexible with my terms and gather to a wider variety of people in an international forum. I'm glad I didn't include Berlina in there.

md4776 said:

An inline 4 that redlines at 9,000, not special?

To me it isn't. The vast majority of cars have inline 4s. May not redline at 9000 but it is still a run of the mill configuration. No different than an inline 4 turbo. Also not special. Special starts at V6 and even then not just any V6.

If you consider V12 (since there was only one production car ever made with a V16) the top of the special scale, an inline 4 is at the very bottom.

md4776 said:

DRVR said:

The true is to fully fulfill your list of requests you have to start at 50K. Then you can get truly special and real sports cars. There might be an exception out there which I'm not thinking of. But not on your list. So if it must be from those, I would go with the 350Z, even if it's not my type of car.

This doesn't make any sense at all on a number of fronts:

1 Earlier you said you could take a Cayman, which you can buy for £12k+ (emphasis on the + part for a decent one).So where does the £50K come from?
2 The 350Z isn't any more of a sports car than an S2000 on the sole basis it has 6 cylinders.
3 You would go with the 350Z on the basis it's a coupe with 6 cylinders, even though its not your type of car. You must be trolling.

Never said the S200 wasn't a sports cars. It just doesn't have a special engine, which was a requirement.

For the rest, please read my reply above explaining it.

For the rest,

[DRVR]

white_goodman said:

That's very true but IC cars might become prohibitively expensive and even so all these "lower-end" sports cars are already receiving downsized engines (see Boxster). It might be viable to have an IC-engined car for fun or longer trips but perhaps not so viable in your daily drive?

Yes, I can see that. But the point still, that petrolheads won't be forced into electrical cars. Even if your daily is electric you can still have you fun car, as you said.

[DRVR]

HustleRussell said:

I directly quoted you?

You cut off my post and focused on one sentence. This is what quoting out of context means.

Besides I already answered your question in a reply to another poster.